TM2012: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.13

Captain Haddock (3) - Amrun, Bub Bidderskins, Matias
Thestatusquo (3) - singersigner, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Llamarble, Benmage
Johhog (2) - Regfan, SocioPath
Benmage (1) - Johhog
Matias (1) - Captain Haddock

Not Voting (1) - Thestatusquo

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 21, 2012, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Amrun]

IT IS AMUSING THAT YOU THINK SUCH.

I know your team is scumhunting, if you're town, and your other teammates are not concerned with talking about it. So why are you?

[SocioPath]

IT IS AMUSING THAT YOU THINK SUCH.

I know your team is scumhunting, if you're town, and your other teammates are not concerned with talking about it. So why are you?

I'll leave that question to the philosophers.

[singersigner]

A thousand times this. I question Amrun's resistance to voting for Shea simply because he's not posting in this thread. She's done her "research" before and I'm questioning why she didn't do it here.

What research do you think I didn't do?

Finding out if he's avoiding the thread or just not around. There were at least two other people who noticed that Shea had posted around the site but not in this thread, and you still say "I'm not going to vote for someone simply because he hadn't posted in this thread." You have now been presented with evidence that he is not just not posting in this thread, he's actively avoiding it. What do you make of that?

The most useful thing I got out of looking at the wagons was thinking about how out of place CES' vote on TSQ is.

I dig it.

Well, that's exactly what I'm saying. So not sure why you're disagreeing.

Experience reads to me as "how long you have been playing", so

I mean, it's all semantics. Johhog to me is not an easy lynch. No one is.

I just didn't feel like getting into a huge diatribe. There are lots of factors. It's not really important.


Socio, it was cute but it's getting old. There is zero reason not to share your team's reads with us. ZERO.

The fact that you believe that shows how ignorant you are. Even more so that you're missing the fact that he's totally messing with you. If you want him to talk, do something about it.



The whole Bub/Haddock thing is really hurting my head. I feel like they're both severely misguided town for pushing people who are also town. Another self-reminder to look at Haddock's wagon since I haven't done that yet.

Also mentioned that I missed earlier: Regfan, why did you ask for hito's reads specifically?

[Amrun]

Finding out if he's avoiding the thread or just not around. There were at least two other people who noticed that Shea had posted around the site but not in this thread, and you still say "I'm not going to vote for someone simply because he hadn't posted in this thread." You have now been presented with evidence that he is not just not posting in this thread, he's actively avoiding it. What do you make of that?

You're really, REALLY not reading carefully - like, the amount of not reading necessary for you to reach this conclusion is astounding.

I knew perfectly well that he was posting on-site and active in the Team Mafia thread. That was inherently relevant to what I was saying about him.

[Amrun]

I have something else I want to say about it that makes me possibly doubt my own conclusion, but my team and I are checking if I'm allowed to say it.

[Regfan]

The whole Bub/Haddock thing is really hurting my head. I feel like they're both severely misguided town for pushing people who are also town. Another self-reminder to look at Haddock's wagon since I haven't done that yet.

Agree completely. As for why I wanted Hitos reads; simply because I value his opinion more than most other players in this competition.

I have something else I want to say about it that makes me possibly doubt my own conclusion, but my team and I are checking if I'm allowed to say it.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

[singersigner]

Not voting TSQ just for not posting.

This is exactly what you said. Unprompted, I might add, which shows that you were at least aware that he wasn't around.

Immediately noted by Zach that it wasn't just that he wasn't posting.

To which you immediately responded with a "too scummy to be scum" dichotomy. Which is weird because you admit that you knew he wasn't just not posting in this thread, but your previous post implies that you didn't. What was it?

I don't understand why you're ignoring the obvious pressure. You are ACTIVELY avoiding it and disagreeing that it's not worth pursuing.

Stop responding with stupid insults and answer my question in the previous post. No, don't just quote what you said before. Really think about why he hasn't given an explanation to why he's been active elsewhere and not here, why you don't think that's scummy, and why you're ok with it.

[Amrun]

If you had fully read my response to Zach, I noted that my team and I were ALREADY DISCUSSING that he had posted in the Team Mafia thread AND that he was active in scumchat during this time and we came to this conclusion WITH THAT IN MIND. In other words, even though in 193, I was short on time and didn't finish the sentence to say, "not posting IN THIS THREAD," that is what I meant, and that much is obvious. Also, saying you're not reading is not insulting you and I didn't intend it as an insult. I have specifically talked about the issue that you're trying to poke at me for and you're acting as if I have not clarified; the only conclusions I can come to is that you did not read very carefully, that you're stupid, or that you are purposefully miscontruing what I wrote. I know B isn't true, and C doesn't even have a good scum motivation, so it's almost definitely A.

I CAN'T respond because my response now is different than it would have been then and I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you why.

But my answer then would have gone something like this: I don't [didn't] think his ignoring this thread has been at all indicative of alignment; posting in MD, GD, and scumchat all require significantly less brain power than sitting down to really read an important game, and it makes sense for someone who is busy to do mindless things but not have the time or attention span required to put time into a game. I don't [didn't] think TSQ would use lurking as any sort of strategy and therefore that his lurking was coincidental, especially given the team nature of this game. I'm not "okay" with him lurking, but think that lurker hunting on Day 1 is a bad idea that is more likely to hit town than scum, which would both decrease my team's points and give us zero information for Day 2.

[singersigner]

You squirm when poked.

I was just curious about the difference in your responses (while yes, noting that you were already talking about it--who's not reading thoroughly now?). No need to get all shouty about it.

Also, don't say "that much is obvious." It's just a poor excuse to get out of explaining your discrepancies. You should be explaining yourself thoroughly if someone is confused by what you're saying, but,

that much is obvious

.

I CAN'T respond because my response now is different than it would have been then and I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you why.

I didn't realize that your previous comment was a follow-up to your response. This was all I needed.

Though saying it gives you "zero information" means you're not trying hard enough. What did you think of CES' jump onto the wagon?

[Zachrulez]

I have something else I want to say about it that makes me possibly doubt my own conclusion, but my team and I are checking if I'm allowed to say it.

I want to hear this if you're able.

Also let me know what you think of Benmage, he's not being mentioned much, but he's bothering me a lot.

[Amrun]

I do think it was obvious, but I did explain myself. (I never meant to imply I wouldn't clarify further.) Correct me if I am wrong, but you were implying that I did not know that TSQ was posting elsewhere because I did not bother to research it, and I was saying that that isn't true AND that you should have known that by reading what I wrote, since I talked about it.

Well, ZERO information was an exaggeration, but it clearly does not give us the optimal amount of information and has the added negative of hurting those of us that are town's points if the lurker target happens to be town.

CES' jump onto the wagon is probably the worst, but I have a townread on him otherwise.

p-edit: No real opinion of Benmage, tbh, which means I need to read him. My first reaction is, "He's getting a lot of negative attention but I don't really see why." I don't really have any reason that he should be town, though, besides that I thought his explanation of why he chose town to be wifom-y but nevertheless genuine-feeling. I'll ask my team as well.

[Zachrulez]

Well I'll just say I've played in several games with Benmage and his play in this game just feels wrong on just about every level.

[Zachrulez]

Second part of 335 is open to everyone to respond to btw.

[Amrun]

Can you be more specific than that?

[Zachrulez]

Can you be more specific than that?

I'd prefer not to be...

Do you have any experience with Benmage scum?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Wait, are people voting TSQ? That's stupid considering all the scum in this game that are actually posting.

[Zachrulez]

Wait, are people voting TSQ? That's stupid considering all the scum in this game that are actually posting.

Are you saying you're expecting scum to be among the most active players? If so, why is that?

[Zachrulez]

Can you be more specific than that?

I'd prefer not to be...

Do you have any experience with Benmage scum?

It's is a meta read, and it's one I don't want to destroy if it's possible.

[Zachrulez]

EBWOP *It is, not it's is.

[Amrun]

Can you be more specific than that?

I'd prefer not to be...

Do you have any experience with Benmage scum?

Me and DGB were basically the only ones to think Benmage was scum in Winvitational. (He was; he won.)

[Captain Haddock]

Why the hell is Johhog an "easy lynch"?

He's a player in this game that I'm currently interested in.

Because there's support, Like everyone else you "suspect". Time to post his read list again.

I should post a read list too. Ask if you have questions.

Singer
Regfan
Amrun
Llamarble
Socio
Bub
Zach
Johhog
Benmage
Haddock
CES

TSQ hasn't posted yet

That points out an interesting trend of CES not making real arguments, but I digress. CES responded to Llamarble's vote on you by saying "nope". Llamarble pointed out his reasons for voting me and

then you stepped in and defended CES' position for him.

Quote now.

1.

That didn't clear up my confusion of the reason he gave for voting CES.

2.

His post about explaining things was in the context of my reasons for voting him, not his reason for voting me and nothing he's posted has contradicted what I've said.

3.

This has been discussed so I will just say this, has his analysis this game came up with any reason for voting anyone? His case on CES was made by Bub.

GOD. You really aren't reading. I'll go over this one more time and slowly, if you don't understanding it still get your team-mates to explain it to you.

1. His reasoning for voting CES was that he voted Llarmable thinking that scum would bandwagon on Lllarmable given what happened last year. CES placed the 3rd 'bandwagon'v ote on Llarmable therefore he thought CES was mafia.

2. His 'question' to Zach had NOTHING to do with a read on you from himself but rather a read on Zach. Zach stated that avoiding a bandwagon = a scum-tell. Your RVS vote on me and not joining the Llarmable lynch = avoiding a bandwagon, yes? Zach said that he didn't have a scum-read on you. Notice the contradiction there from Zach? That's what Matias meant when he said 'it's not too early'. His entire scum read on you stems from the fact that he thinks you're not reading his posts correctly and are jumping at things, which is correct but I don't think is a scum-tell in this case.

Fuck you.


1. I've known the reason for a while, he claims things were explained to me and he didn't even explain why I didn't understand the reason he originally gave for voting CES. I posted about realising his reason earlier. YAWN.
2. He said avoiding a bandwagon was likely to extend rvs, not that it was a scumtell, so that's not a contradiction. The rest is only true if he's town and there's scum motivation for saying it. Has his "analysis" this game came up with any reason for voting anyone?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/explain

[Bub Bidderskins]

Wait, are people voting TSQ? That's stupid considering all the scum in this game that are actually posting.

Are you saying you're expecting scum to be among the most active players? If so, why is that?

No, I'm saying there are scum among the players that are actually posting, so its stupid to attack people who won't respond to you when there are scummier people who will.

[Equinox]

Thestatusquo has been prodded.

[Thestatusquo]

Well, this game is off to a terrible start. My sincerest apologies. I am getting my butt kicked right now. I still haven't read anything, and I just received my second prod. I am sorry.