Newbie 1433 - Game Over

[Mr_Ree]

I'm not at all happy with this turn of events.

Same...

@Bob is this VLAable?

[Mr_Ree]

There's no real skill level qualification for playing as IC. Experience is required, and presumably you get better with experience, but the point of the IC is to provide someone who's familiar with the mechanics and social norms of how the game is played on the site for people to refer to, not necessarily to provide someone who's so amazing at the game they'll automatically win for whatever side they're on. That'd be no fun, after all.

Don't like this. don't like this at all..

Of course I'm going to win for town. My town record is like almost perfect. This sounds like a discredit...

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I would imagine if it was V/La he would of taken that option though it possible he did not think about it. Whatever it is I hope that it is not anything too serious and he can take care of it quickly
@ Bob- Take care and I wish you the best ( just in case you must leave the game.)

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@Ree- I think everyone is waiting for you to share your discoveries. You said you had the scum pair nailed down. Curious what your reads are.....

[Nominull]

There's no real skill level qualification for playing as IC. Experience is required, and presumably you get better with experience, but the point of the IC is to provide someone who's familiar with the mechanics and social norms of how the game is played on the site for people to refer to, not necessarily to provide someone who's so amazing at the game they'll automatically win for whatever side they're on. That'd be no fun, after all.

Don't like this. don't like this at all..

Of course I'm going to win for town. My town record is like almost perfect. This sounds like a discredit...

To be honest I don't know or care about your record or meta. Reputation ain't shit to me, 'cause what you done in the past don't impress me. I was speaking in general terms.

[SatanHellYeah]

You got them balls, moustache man.

[SafetyDance]

Votecount 1.6

TheFuzzylogic99 (3): Mr_Ree, archaebob, Skelda

skelda (2):

SatanHellYeah, 2Pac

archaebob (1):

sthar8

2Pac (1):

Nominull

Mr_Ree(1):

Not voting

: TheFuzzylogic99, Ranawey

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-09-25 09:00:00). With 9 players, it's 5 to lynch.

Searching for a replacement for archaebob per request

[SafetyDance]

Regfan quickly replaces archaebob! Welcome Regfan!

[Regfan]

Hey everyone, haven't played too much in a while so apologies if I'm a little rusty in advance. I'll be reading through this game in a few hours, have to finish of something first. If there's anyone in particular you want me to focus on more while I read through let me know in advance.

Also while I know it's obvious I'd rather if no one put anyone to L-1 before I finish catching up. On that note:

Unvote

[Regfan]

I'll start via going through the people I'm fairly confident are town

(If you're interested I do a skim read through of the thread to attain context for everything, then a deeper read to make sure I have the correct order of events for most things, then I ISO players pretty much aiming to go through people I got solid town reads from when reading the thread since I'm generally most confident, accurate and able to explain them first and then progressing to people I have more difficulty with.)

I didn't like

Ree's

initial attack on Satan in Post 30 and Post 38 and had a scum read on him for it since it read as scum jumping opportunistically on an upcoming wagon. That said his explanation in Post 105 and Post 116 fits contextually and has a great deal of town motivation behind it. I think posts like his Post 320 of "You'll be amazed at what I've found, certain 2 of you are town" come from town significantly more than scum, scum don't like to solidify people as town since it minimizes their mslynch pool and inside a newbie with only 9 players and 7 town players scum cannot afford to close of openings in terms of who they can mslynch later or not. And furthermore the statement in Post 326 reads as massively genuine and something I'd say (I rate my town play much much higher than my scum play) and something I struggle to see scum saying. So yeah, pretty sure Ree's town.

Fuzzys

thoughts read as very transparent in that he's saying exactly what he's thinking and that's something that's near impossible for scum to fabricate and a massive town tell. For instance his thoughts in Post 104 matched mine re; Ree's initial insistence of Satan being scum reading as opportunistic and his constant moving the floor to others to comment on his reads comes across as town. Hist Post 124 is another example of this. Something else I've noticed is that he's constantly calling players "bad town" or "easy targets" and it's not just one player, I think he's said that about 2Pac, Null, Run and Satan and it's actually a town-tell in that scum need mslynches, they can't call townies that are playing bad town since it makes it hard for them to win. And while it's possible it's him defending his partner that'd only work in one case. So yeah, that alone is a fairly solid town tell. And Post 198 is another example of complete transparency. So I'd add him in the town section too.

Sthar's

reaction-test attempt in Post 166 is insanely town; I don't think he'd throw himself in the spotlight that quickly after replacing in as scum and I can see a lot of town motivation from it (Getting a solid read on someone he had a scum read on), the elaborated explanation in Post 189 matches that too. The idea that he can get a read on people that attack him in Post 201 makes sense and is something I flat out cannot see him doing as scum. I also like what he's pointed out about Skelda in Post 321 and I'll go into that in more detail soon. So yeah, add Sthar to the sure-fire town pile.

Ranaweys

vote on Satan in Post 16 is entirely understandable to get a read on someone via pressuring them and Post 24 reaffirms that as does the further explanation in Post 36 and the comment about him potentially being scummy as town and unvoting due to it has a lot of town motivation (Scum don't care in those cases). While I didn't agree with it at the time I think the town read on Mr Ree in Post 39 is a town tell and reads as genuine as do all of the 'thoughts' in Post 184. The comment in Post 188 reads more as frustrated town having their FoS ignored (Scum actually prefer if the person they vote doesn't respond towards it). I agree with a lot of Post 203 and comments like Post 219 read as insanely genuine. So yeah, town too.

Taking a two hour break then I'll get to everyone else.

[Regfan]

Actually I'll do these two and then take a break and get to Satan / Nom.

2Pacs

gimmick is annoying but a complete null-tell (Someone pointed it out earlier; it was decided he'd do this before he joined the game via making the account and therefore before he got his role PM and therefore making it a playerstyle tell and not an alignment tell), it does make it harder to discern motivation from his posting though but for the most part his progression of reads come across as natural for instance his stated scum reads on on Skelda and Fuzzy in Post 127 and explanation of it in Post 138. Gah. I really can't explain this read that well at all sadly. I

have a weakish town read on him

but the more I'm trying to explain it to myself the more I think it's gut based (I generally trust logic over gut). About the only thing I can say confidently about him is that I don't think his interaction with Nom is bussing at all and if one of them flip scum at one point the other is most certainly town.

I completely disagreed with

Skeldas

Post 27, the strongest thing I took from the whole Runaway/Satan debacle was that there isn't a chance in hell they're partners. Satan seemed to be under the impression that you don't throwaway votes and therefore don't think he'd have placed a vote on his partner inside the first 10 posts of the game. I also found Runaways reaction towards it to point away from partners as well. I did like the comment of "not completely positive" in Post 31 though Post 52 is incredibly scummy, it's a massive fence-sit ie. "Some of his reads aren't that bad" vs "He's still super scummy" vs the prior "I'm not positive he's scum" vs "I don't like the idea of a quick D1 lynch", the whole thing reads as scum wanting to stay on the wagon without having a large amount of responsibility held on them for their vote post-lynch. Also the "I read my own ISO, what have I done" in Post 100 is very self conscious and defensive play that generally is done by scum. The read on Bob in Post 118 again is another fence-sit and set up of a potential mslynch ie. "Satan/Bob aren't partners therefore I'm not voting Bob because I'm boting Satan" it leads an opening to vote Bob if Satan flips town and reads as lining-up-lynches. The vote change in Post 143 ignores the whole "I think Satan is scum" vs "Satan/Bob aren't a scum-team" type of statements. I also think Post 199 is very appeaseish towards Sthar. The vote in Post 202 makes no sense; if he thought Bob was still scum he wouldn't have a reason to move his vote of him. It also ignores the scum read on Satan that he apparently had earlier in the game - the entire thing there reads as him forgetting he scum read him which is something that scum do insanely more than town. Again Post 263 reads as lining up lynches. Also his attack on Fuzzy in Post 268 contradicts his own Post 100. Also the "Stop tunneling on me" in Post 315 while calling him town and scum in the post reads as over-defensive. So yeah, I don't find his scumhunting, progression of reads and votes genuine at all. All of them read as opportunistic (Him voting who's suspected at the time via the VC) which is massively scum motivated and him forgetting his scum read on Satan comes across as a scum slip. I read a recent post of his saying that he had a noobtown read on Satan but if you re-read his ISO there's actually zero statement of such in the past. None at all. The only thing is "Bob/Satan aren't scum together" and a scum read on Bob and not a town read on Satan from his play. The whole thing is incredibly scummy and I think the

odds of him being scum are very high

and am kind of shocked that he hasn't been voted / run up yet.

Don't think I'm likely to get a stronger scum read on Satan or Nom as I currently have on Skeld so I'll move my vote for now:

Vote: Skeld

[Regfan]

The only completed game I can find of Skelds is Newbie 1409 where he was town and I don't think his play between here and there are similar at all. I think there he's a lot more logical, a lot calmer and his reads had a lot more backing. I also think his reaction to being scum read in that game in this post is highly different to that of this game. I wish there was a completed scum game to compare it again but the difference alone between that game and here strengthens my scum read on him even more.

[Ranawey]

Guess I have to work on my scumhunting, heh. I do agree with Regfan. Anyways, I'm not that sure about the player slot, but it's been a while since I've read archaebob's ISO, so might as well do that after lunch if able.

VOTE: Skelda

[Ranawey]

EBWOP

with Regfan's vote*

[Ranawey]

Oh, and welcome Regfan!

[Regfan]

I didn't like that

Nominull's

Post 45 ignored taking a stance on everything had happened before it; which was quite a bit, not sure what to make of Post 46 but I disagree with Ree in that I don't think that was Nominull "Reaction-testing" at all, the vote in Post 61 continues to take no stances and is just a policy based vote. Nominals Post 135 is self-defence based and again doesn't state a single read on anyone in the game in it. The idea of "We must lynch X because he's ruining the intergrity of the game" is contradictory in the sense that nonne of Nom's posts have progressed the game forward or have had to do with stating reads or thoughts on players that aren't policy based and on 2Pac. That said Post 223 reads town in that he's not really afraid of being lynched if it provides "information" and I think scum would have stated something elsewise, Post 258 is another example of that actually. Sadly

I actually have a weak town-read on him

, I think his attitude is one of frustrated town rather than tunneling-scum. In Newbie 1347 he had a slightly similar approach in that he hated people not playing 'normally' and having a gimmick (He was town there) such as this post. One difference though is that he actually scumhunts and states reads elsewhere in that game. In Newbie 1375 again he points out that Bacde is potentially scum-gambting and wants to lynch him for it but again scumhunts (He was town there). In Open 495 there's less tunneling and he does fake scumhunt (He's scum there). So his play doesn't match either of his alignments to the tee but is slightly closer to his town play. That said his meta shows that he can scumhunt,

so Nom lets make this clear; I find your play just as harmful towards the town than 2Pacs, if anything moreso since he's actually contributing even if it's hard to understand at times. It's about time you stopped your tantrum and actually stated reads and thoughts

.

[Regfan]

Thanks for the welcome Rana; do you agree or disagree with any of my stronger town reads? If so can you explain why.

Exhausted so I'll get to Satan in the morning. Rana's vote put Skeld to L-1 so I'll unvote for now so nothing weird happens while I'm asleep.

Unvote

[Ranawey]

Oh, I should be more cautious with that.

I agree in most of your town reads. I'm not that sure about Ree, because I can't read him at all.

Nominull is completely anti-town for me till he starts contributing. About Post 223 and 258, I'd probably do that as scum, I don't read that as a towntell. Also, I wouldn't trust meta yet, since he did nothing through the whole day.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Welcome RegFan

@ Regfan Maybe it is just me but Ree seems like a pretty aggressive player. This is not necessarily scummy and it might be just his style but I would think that scum would need to be fairly aggressive in order to get the mislynch.He might just be just an aggressive townie trying to scum , I seen that before too. I agree he hard to read which personally makes me a bit nervous.

i see Nom as totally OCDing on the 2pac situation. Maybe it because I have OCD and I know how it is to be super focused on one thing and unable to get my mind off that thing/ thought. Not saying he OCD just that the situation seems to be similar.As far as 2pac I think he like the attention he gets from his act. I cant see scum wanting extra attention on themselves . It could be he scum but he does not really care about getting caught and just wants attention. I dont see this happening though

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I meant to say an aggressive player trying to catch scum.

[Ranawey]

I really can't rationalize Nominull's play as you Fuzzy, sorry.

I feel like Ree loves reactions tests, more than being agressive.

[Skelda]

Alright, I'm here. I still think that the reg-fuzzy spots are scummy, to be honest. In other games, I've always felt that the arguments against me were logical, but in this game I thought they were just idiotic. Anyway, right now I have a scumread on fuzzy and reg, although the Reg reads were nice, and added a little more doubt in my mind about that spot, his vote on me does seem like jumping in already knowing I had a lot of votes and voting based on that. Anyway, at least one scum has to be voting for me or I'm fairly certain I would be lynched already, so keep that in mind if you kill me.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Run

so do you think Nom is scum or just a bad townie?
I guess I took Ree using reaction test so much as being aggressive. Yes it is a good way to trap scum but it also can be use as a ruse to trap innocent townies as well. That is what I am a bit worried about. I guess I am concern that Mr Ree might be town fishing with his test. Since I find it hard to read Ree its hard to figure out his intention.

Dont like how quiet it has been.....This is not good for the town.

[Nominull]

I'll note this is the second time at least that 2Pac has been MIA for over 60 hours, pushing near the prod deadline (he would be exceeding it in faster games). You can call it tunneling if you want, but even if you ignore his manner of speaking and mentally replace the things he says with the things you think he was maybe trying to say, he has been lurking pretty hardcore. One nifty thing about his dialectical strategy is how it draws attention away from other aspects of his play, freeing him up to be as scummy as he likes.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@Skelda

Why would my spots be logical in another game but idiotic here. Sorry but your logic is not making any sense. This is not a parallel universe were the law of universe is changed. It feel like you do like the argument bc it is directed toward you. You also seem very defensive even though you only have two votes against you. Three with Refan vote on you which he took back. You just seem overly defensive and panicky. I dont know what to make of your scum pairings. They kind of seem like the flavor of the moment type thing. You also never explain the vote on me. Why you would not put me at l-1 even though you are sure I am scum.
I never even implied you were scum bc of that. I even gave you a chance to answer without putting any pressure on you. So one time. Please answer my simple question