Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Sunshine13]

I mean if we can’t take your townread seriously, why should we take your votes seriously?

My thoughts exactly.

I’m about to crack under the pressure guys.

Seriously, this feels more like I’m voting you.

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

I have never seen town ruru at work, but she is more proactive with her vote this game in comparison to her scumgame in Newbie 1859. It doesn't change my read on her.

I like this answer. Mostly because it looks like you’ve thought about it, referring this game and your experience with ru.

It also doesn’t quite answer the question I asked. Cheeky boi.

ruru is voting me because they townread you and I’m voting you. Thoughts regarding that very specific situation please.

I guess you can consider the following non-exhaustive list of points you can cover:

Is it a good vote?

Will it progress reads on me and/or ruru?

Should ruru be doing anything else along with their vote?

Other things, man, I don’t really want to have to hold people’s hands through all the questions I ask.

Is that why you guys do 10-day phases? ‘cause that’s going to be god-damn exhausting.

[the worst]

do you scumread ofrhz?

@sunsh

[the worst]

we talk to each other and don't ignore people with our 10 day phases sunnnnnnshine (:

[Mathdino]

let it be known that you asked for it
i am not actually tunneling you as hard as the following is going to make it seem

I think 13p is the perfect size game (give or take)
welcome. hope you enjoy it here.

sheeping the first rvs wagon to L-2 with nothing but a "hi" post pings me as more likely scummy than null/towny. L-2 also lacks the accountability of L-1 or even like a 2nd vote, it's a decent position for scum to be in.

idk if it were me I'd say something like "good wagon, evilduck must die (vote)" but that's not really the point.

I'm not lockscumming her ass and suggesting we lynch with fire but it's a great place to start

btw Math is super super heavily invested in the whole Mafia Discussion world and is incredibly sharp re. open setups. everything he says will be objectively correct or a highly educated opinion. but it's not alignment indicative.

1. game irrelevant comment

2. buddying newbies

3. overexplained version of "L-2 is often the scumspot on the wagon"

4. irrelevant sidenote

5. backs down from the scumread but justifies his vote as pro-town (i hate to say LAMIST but)

6. buddies me with correct knowledge of my gameplay

none of these things are scummy in themselves but the combination of all 6 and this many words without things that i think actually advance the gamestate makes me read it as
posturing?
LAMISTy?
busywork?
whatever term you use for "scum trying to act like town", that.

[the worst]

at least you acknowledge the prejudice of that interpretation.

[Oxy]

@Mathdino
Your "irrelevant sidenote" is actually a response to a question Sunshine had asked him directly.

I read this whole post is personality indicative of the worst - He's going to be welcoming, friendly, and overly helpful to new members of this site regardless of alignment.

Certainly, you have more experience with The Worst's game than I do, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mathdino]

you're largely correct, yes

which is why i'm not really hammering down on that post. just explaining the gut feeling i got from it

i haven't really seen anything from him i townread yet

but i also haven't seen anything scum-indicative based off of my meta knowledge of him

he's right that i'm paranoid but that paranoia is justified by the fact that the last time i townread scum-him he stayed in everyone's townpools until winning MyLo

still don't think he's a good D1 lynch; i'm getting better at reading him since that game

[the worst]

tru dat I'm an open book

[Oxy]

If you're scum, I will slam that book shut on your tiny little bill so fast...

[Mathdino]

i can't wait for skitter to whack us all over the head with a book when she makes her catchup posts tomorrow

[Oxy]

truuuuuuue

[skitter30]

Oh gosh 13 pages.

I'm going to try not to wall, so I guess I'll spam instead, apologies in advance.

Maybe I'll just do like one post per page or something.

her best scumgame is the one where RC was coaching her and editing her posts
outside of that i think i have a good handle on her scumrange

of course since you HAD to ask, scum-skitter is going to be hyperaware of our ability to meta-read her this game soooooooooo

I mean, I was hyper-aware that people were going to try to meta me when I signed up, given that you're in the game, and so is like all of 1859.

anyway.........town!skitter is awesome so I will just try to resist reading her for now in the hope she skitters

I, too, am getting a townvibe from Sunshine.

Ofrhz, as well, but to a lesser extent. Similar quick jump from playful -> serious as in last game's opening.

Why on sunshine?

I don't really have a read on either ofrhz or sunshine at this point.

A'ight. Like with TW, what could she have said that would have made sense with that vote on that wagon?

You also said it felt weird specifically from Scioness; Why did it feel weird from her?

Would it have felt weird from any other players? If so, Who?

It felt weird from her cuz I would have expected her to comment on wagon-speed or how it was the L-2 vote or something game-relevant. It was just a greeting and an empty vote and she's more .... game-aware I guess in my experience. It felt kinda like 'hi I'm here and I'm participating, don't pay too much attention to me!' from her since she was just voting where everyone else did without like any game-relevant commentary.

There's no one in this playerlist that I've played with before that I wouldn't have found that post to be weird from. I wouldn't find it to be weird from someone who I know to be wagon-happy/easy-with-their-vote/lolvoters. (I'm not describing the playstyle well. Specific examples of people I've played with who I think would enter the game like that include dunkerdoodles and ausuka, and sometimes not-mafia.)

p-edit: hi i'm here now.

[skitter30]

Sunshine's VLA is noted, please use bolded text to talk to me in the future.

Oh I think I didn't bold this earlier:

@mod

I'm v/la on fridays and saturdays.

[the worst]

skitter30...
skitter30...
skitter30...

pedit: oh my summon worked

[Oxy]

Why on sunshine?

I was initially reading his opening as probably not coming from newb!scum, but then I decided that read was nai because Sunshine is not new to mafia.

[ofrhz]

Answered inline

ruru is voting me because they townread you and I’m voting you. Thoughts regarding that very specific situation please.

I don't really want to speculate as to why she voted for you, as she was awfully sparse with her explanation in voting for you. Since you asked, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for her to think you're scumreading me (also see tw's question directed at you). ruru could be confused why you are scumreading someone she townreads. Additionally, neither ruru nor I were townreading you, yet you chose to single me out for doing so. I think this was genuine mistake on your part though, but she might have seen it differently.

I guess you can consider the following non-exhaustive list of points you can cover:

Is it a good vote?

I think she thinks it's a productive use of her vote. For relatively inexperienced players, I believe trying to find the motivation behind what they do is more important than what I think they should be doing with her vote. I elaborated on possible motivations above ^. But to answer your question at face value, I think she should be voting for Mohab or AP or someone who hasn't bothered to talk in game

Will it progress reads on me and/or ruru?

See answer above. This also depends on her successive questioning and her ability to suss people out by engaging with them. I think that is a high ask for someone who is most likely playing her first game as town.

In summary, this, in addition to what I wrote earlier about her being more proactive this game, is why I am townreading her still. Have I answered your questions?

@other duckie, let him question me first.

[skitter30]

yeah that makes sense actually.

the idea behind not choosing IC though is to say "there's an IC out there not revealing, this bucko claiming jailkeeper is clearly lying though"

tbh vigs hurt town less when i'm in the game, as both alignments

Wow that's kinda evil of you lol

Also since you have to argue against the vig making bad shots if you're scum, the damage of the vig might be mitigated if scum!you picked it tbh.

You ain't seen nothing yet
Have you read the game? I'd say we're solidly out of RVS

I have not, reading now

Are you planning on following through with this at any point?

My vote is on ruru also, not sure what's going on

Why are you voting ruru? I think she's pretty town tbh.

If I project confidence in this one, I'm faking it too, just as town this time!

I'm also always super awkward with people I haven't met before which was everyone last game

Yes, but you feel a lot more natural this time

And now you know like half the playerlist!

Also no such thing as obvtown, we're lkke 5 pagew in wtf

Disagree, people can be obvtown on page5. Kinda dislike that you're around enough to interact with people but not to have like any useful opinions on anything.

jailkeeper almost certainly doesn't exist lol

4. Shoot all the PRs, potentially mislynch the 3rd one by arguing that there must be an innocent child out there and jailkeeper is an

easy fakeclaim

How's JK an easy fakeclaim if it certainly doesn't exist? A JK claim would be obviously real since picking him would be idiotic from scum.

This inconsistency is pinging me hard, you don't fail in this kind of shit

This is actually a fairly good point.

@math: If you think that jk doesn't exist because scum would have to be stupid to put one in, why do you think scum would ever think a jk fake-claim would be believable?

[Sunshine13]

we talk to each other and don't ignore people with our 10 day phases sunnnnnnshine (:

I will thus respond with a most non-committal (sp? weird word) “sure”

[Mathdino]

you and pintu are lowkey asking questions of a hypothetical scum-me who's trying to mislynch the jailkeeper

i obviously don't think that in reality but you're like arguing with the argument that i, as scum, WOULD make if someone claimed jailkeeper and wasn't CC'd by the other PRs

in reality the fact is that scum is likely to fakeclaim whatever unconfirmable PR they didn't pick, and if that happens to be jailkeeper, they'll go with that just to out the other PRs

[the worst]

you're telling math his scum strategy is bad
why are you doing that

[ofrhz]

I think skitter and pin both misread Math's post.

If Math were scum, he would:
1. Pick JK as one of the PRs
2. Wagon the town JK as scum
3. The town JK claims JK
4. scum!Math makes the argument that JK cannot possibly exist in this setup, therefore the JK must be lying
5. Town mislynches JK

Does that make more sense? Not really seeing the inconsistency here.

[skitter30]

wat

the point would be telling people "lol no way scum picked jailkeeper, you're just claiming JK to draw out the town PRs!" and mislynching the jailkeeper

how does picking JK being idiotic make JK claims MORE likely to be real? that makes no sense

Nm, I get you.

you're arguing that scum think jk is a bad thing to give town, so never would, and then put one in anyways so that when the real jk claims it's not believeable so that real jk is mislynchable?

Dino could be scum

Kinda agree actually.

cool sunshine is town, who's next

Wtf are you on?

Yeah I still don't get why math was townreading sunshine at that point.

Disagree here, It seems blendy you're right, but that doesn't mean it's scummy.

It feels kinda empty coming from her tbh. What's the difference between tw being 'scum trying to blend in' (146) and scioness being 'blendy but not scummy'?

All of this feels incredibly fake and forced tbh.

I didn't really get that vibe from that post.

Scum to town

Theworst
Skitter
Sunshine, mathidino, ofrhz

Everybody else is null

Why me, why sunshine, why math, why ofrhz?

[ofrhz]

OK she got it without my explanation lol

[Sunshine13]

I missed ofhrz’s response there. Apologies. Question answered.

I will say it’s demonstrably false I’m singling you out, though, since ruru posted that she didn’t think I was town until after I voted you for not doing anything about you not finding me town. If that makes sense.

I’m also pressuring her to get why she’s voting me for voting you, and not getting much.

Her responses make some degree of sense if she’s new, I guess... but I’ll choose to believe it’s scummy and you’re her partner trying to protect her with your responses to my questions.

[ofrhz]

(more useless posting)

<snip> why ofrhz?

....holy shit skitter spelled my name correctly.