Mafiascum.net

In post 321, probs a robot wrote:With respect to your coalition: I do not trust skitter, and I am hesitant to include TDW in any coalition.
Though I do like your reasoning for town-reading both, enough to think that you are likely town. I just believe we are approaching this puzzle in different ways!

Skitter is a weaker town read so I am flexible there as of now. I strongly town read TDW though. Why are you so hesitant with both of them?

Also one moment to read and respond to your post on DVa lol

I think that he is hesitant with me because he knows that openly townreading me leaves him in a dead end as to how to get one of himself/DVa into the coalition.

In post 326, The Dark Wanderer wrote:I think that he is hesitant with me because he knows that openly townreading me leaves him in a dead end as to how to get one of himself/DVa into the coalition.

That's an interesting theory. Don't you think there are easier targets than you in the general coalition though as far as getting him/his scumpartner in the coalition if he was scum?

Not because I'm the easiest person to remove, because putting me down as town then trying to get in the coalition anyway is a lot more difficult than discrediting me.

That could potentially be possible. I'd like to hear what he has to say to this

I do feel like I've been objectively towny and I'm concerned that his 'oh tonally town but dont like his reads' conceals the fact that he has to call me towny because he knows that I'm town and others have seen it but it's also important to discredit and attack my reads (because they're right, presumably.)

Could be possible. Not something we could know for sure without knowing his allignment obviously but I'm willing to consider this.

@Raya, posts such as this:

In post 326, The Dark Wanderer wrote:I think that he is hesitant with me because he knows that openly townreading me leaves him in a dead end as to how to get one of himself/DVa into the coalition.

In the fact of responses such as this:

In post 306, probs a robot wrote:TDW, I believe you are exhibiting the human logical fallacy known as "confirmation bias"! You have invented a theory that {DVa, probs} is the scumteam. Now you are inventing agendas to support that we are trying to get each other into coalitions.

@Raya

I am actually heavily struggling to get a solid read on DVa. Hence my shakiness and using northsidegal as a sounding board. For despite being human, she is a better scumputer than I am.

As soon as I start to see a scum agenda in her posting, I second guess myself. It is like I love the way she conducts herself in the game (i.e. her eagerness to engage and get her hands dirty; her ability to explain every thought that's gone through her head in ways that feel pure; the way she went around airing her concerns with skitter); but I very much dislike some parts of her content.

If either of you want to talk assist me with this, I am available. ^_^

Are the reason that I struggle with townreading TDW.
He presents as towny/"doing enough" but is arrogantly tunnelling his reads to a point that feels entirely unnatural.

This is either sheer confirmation bias (humans being bad...) or he is scum who is cornered.


In the face of no logical re-evaluation from TDW, I am at an impasse with myself with respect to sorting the slot.
I would very much like to townread him, but feel that he is not giving me an opportunity to exist in a world where we are both town.

Maybe Robots and Dark Wanderers cannot be friends.

I also do not want DVa in the coalition currently, and am not fussed whether or not I am in the coalition.
So his theory that I am trying to insert one/both of us is absolute nonsense which he refuses to support with fact. It is the opposite of what is going on, and is offensive to objectivity.

@robot

On DVa
You said that the individual times that she lacked re-evaluation it wasn't ai but do you think overall the consistency of not re-evaluating would be?

I think the claim of being busy is legitimate. Too easy for someone to check.

On TDW

Do you think her suggestion of you and DVa being partners is reasonable?

Why don't you care if you're in the coalition?

In post 334, Raya36 wrote:On DVa
You said that the individual times that she lacked re-evaluation it wasn't ai but do you think overall the consistency of not re-evaluating would be?

I think the claim of being busy is legitimate. Too easy for someone to check.

Maybe? I think the way she checks herself presents as more indicative of playstyle, than alignment.
Sorry that this feels unfruitful. I am finding it really hard to parse.

What do you think of the consistency of her not re-evaluating other slots?

Raya36 wrote:On TDW

Do you think her suggestion of you and DVa being partners is reasonable?

Why don't you care if you're in the coalition?

The suggestion is ludicrous and the fact he refuses to go into it or reconsider it is bordering on offensive. No, I don't think it's reasonable. I would accept it as a floated theory but it is starting to form the basis of his contributions to the thread which is just absurd.

This setup can be won without every member of the town being in the coalition. I have been programmed to be aware of the prevalence of unconscious automatonophobia, so do not expect humans to be able to feel highly comfortable about correctly townreading me.

<I can explain this out of alt-speak if you'd like >

it just occurred to me who you may be
and if i'm right you're just town here i'm pretty sure

if i'm not than this post is irrelevant

In post 332, probs a robot wrote:Maybe Robots and Dark Wanderers cannot be friends.

to be clear, it is this dynamic that makes me want both of you in my coalition.

I feel like you two are legitimately trying to sort each other, and struggling to do so. I feel like that is hard to fake except for very strong scum and I don't think s/s theater ever reads like this

Robot's shade in response to my discussion with skitter really pinged me, but "I am starting to re-evaluate that"

Man it is weird being talked about like that, makes me self conscious of my reads lol. I already get accused frequently of committing to early reads too hard in almost game, and for the record, I am second-guessing myself a lot more here because of the results of 2040 (my top two townreads were both scum, even though I won the game by flipping my read on one in the end)

That was a very exhausting game and I really did not want to meta dive people at the start of day 1 here, so I guess I came off as kinda lazy in regard to vizzy's slot when I asked other people about his meta. But I did also want to see if other people had other familiarity with his meta and I thought skitter's case was engaging, and I think the conversation that emerged out of that was productive.

I'm also not at a point right now where I'm re-evaluating some of my key slots. TDW seems really clearly town, and I think his skepticism of my play seems very natural. I at this point wish Gamma had a bit more presence so my read there could solidify, but that's not the same thing as me reconsidering my read. Right now I think I'm back to {DVa, Gamma, Robot, TDW, NSG} as very likely to be a game-winning solve for coalition, but I also recognize Gamma needs to get in here more if that is going to convince the rest of that block. I feel like Robot, TDW, and NSG are not trying to particularly buddy each other or me, and I am hoping Gamma will 'show up' in time

I've liked Raya's posts on the past two pages, even if they are highly critical of me. But I'm not sure how much that helps me when it seems half the town doesn't like my choice of Gamma and the other half doesn't like robot. I'm still having a hard time moving Yuriko, Tes, and Skitter above the scummy side of null.

In post 328, The Dark Wanderer wrote:Not because I'm the easiest person to remove, because putting me down as town then trying to get in the coalition anyway is a lot more difficult than discrediting me.

i guess i'm just not following why he can't just townread you as scum and then try to get into one of the other four slots of the coalition; why does he bother discrediting you here at all?

==

In post 332, probs a robot wrote:Are the reason that I struggle with townreading TDW.
He presents as towny/"doing enough" but is arrogantly tunnelling his reads to a point that feels entirely unnatural.

i don't really feel like his tunneling is unnatural tbh

more than that, most of his posts just kinda bleed town imo

@dva can you explain why you like gamma a bit more?

also what don't you like about yuriko and tes?

There's not a lot of content to work with on them and what's there isn't really impressive? I find it surprising how easily some people have thrown heals to Yuriko and Tes considering they don't seem to mention strong familiarity with their metas and there's not really enough content to see a town thought process yet. It is still relatively early game and considering the town sweep last time this game setup was run, I would be surprised if both scum were lurking again, but not being present doesn't make me townread them.

As a matter of interest, skitter, my calculations suggest you are the person here who is most likely to identify the human on whom my artificial intelligence was based.

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Raya

I do not like hurting humans... I will make an effort to fill this coalition only with people who I do not wish to harm....

In post 341, DVa wrote:There's not a lot of content to work with on them and what's there isn't really impressive? I find it surprising how easily some people have thrown heals to Yuriko and Tes considering they don't seem to mention strong familiarity with their metas and there's not really enough content to see a town thought process yet. It is still relatively early game and considering the town sweep last time this game setup was run, I would be surprised if both scum were lurking again, but not being present doesn't make me townread them.

so you're basically saying they're poe reads for you rn?
what do you think of my reads on them?

==

In post 342, probs a robot wrote:As a matter of interest, skitter, my calculations suggest you are the person here who is most likely to identify the human on whom my artificial intelligence was based.

well if you're who i think you might be you're just town (but you might not be given how you reacted in this post? idk)

if not i dont' have a solid read on you really; i'm *slightly* tending town but i'm having trouble telling whether or not that's stemming from thinking you make sense and liking how you approached the vizzy case (which was made before you had your alignment so although i like the way you thought about vizzy's iso i'm not sure it's actually ai for you)

In post 335, probs a robot wrote:

In post 334, Raya36 wrote:On DVa
You said that the individual times that she lacked re-evaluation it wasn't ai but do you think overall the consistency of not re-evaluating would be?

I think the claim of being busy is legitimate. Too easy for someone to check.

Maybe? I think the way she checks herself presents as more indicative of playstyle, than alignment.
Sorry that this feels unfruitful. I am finding it really hard to parse.

What do you think of the consistency of her not re-evaluating other slots?

I think it can be hit or miss. Scum do it and town do it. On it's own it doesn't mean too much to me but with other things it could point towards scum. I do need to look back into her iso soon though to see if it is something that really stands out to me as well before I come to any conclusions.

In post 335, probs a robot wrote:

Raya36 wrote:On TDW

Do you think her suggestion of you and DVa being partners is reasonable?

This setup can be won without every member of the town being in the coalition. I have been programmed to be aware of the prevalence of unconscious automatonophobia, so do not expect humans to be able to feel highly comfortable about correctly townreading me.

<I can explain this out of alt-speak if you'd like >

Wouldn't it be natural though to want yourself in the coalition. Sure, we can win without all members of town in the coalition. We only need 5. But putting yourself in the coalition and only having to find 4 town is much easier than having to find 5 and ups the chances of being correct.

Approaching this game with an unusual posting style and gimmick means I'm unlikely to be townread.
Call it challenge mode if you will - I am supportive of a coalition which I'm not in. Because I understand there will be unconscious reservations in reading me as confidently as others.

Was super busy today and only briefly skimmed through the post but realised I was too occupied to analyse the dynamics. Should have more time tomorrow. Sorry about this.

Fair enough. I still stand by what I said with or without a gimmick although I don't see much potential scum intention behind this so I'll let it slide

In post 346, probs a robot wrote:Approaching this game with an unusual posting style and gimmick means I'm unlikely to be townread.

I think most people have seen enough gimmicks on this site that this seems like a surprising expectation... fam