Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Rockhopper]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

[ben dover123]

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

I...

wtf is this

How come?

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.4

[2] clidd (ben dover123, Trendall)
[1] ben dover123 (Battle Mage)
[1] LavarManos (Rockhopper)
[1] Rockhopper (clidd)

[4] Not Voting (LoneMarkhor, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, LavarManos, Chumbo)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to eliminate.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-12 08:30:00)

[ben dover123]

istg Rockhopper, you can't just hand out a scumlean and then leave with no explanation. I want to know how that post makes me scummy.

[ben dover123]

Where the heck did everyone go?

Also, did some rereading over Rock and commented below:

Spoiler: Rockhopper's bad reads

That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.

This is Rockhopper overlooking a case of newbie town.

It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.

I disagree with you on this. I think that contradictions, in general, are scum behavior. Scum has to lie and if they don't keep track of their lies, they contradict themselves. clidd did explain himself later, which you can take it or leave it, but I don't think it's scummy to call out a contradiction.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?
That's a step town wouldn't miss when using the tell.

Wait a fricking minute here. So first you say that Pragdoid automatically equated contradictions to scumminess, then Chumbo makes a really good point, and now you say that Pragdoid's SR on clidd stems from an RVS vote with poor reasoning? Just what.
Also, clidd's contradiction was weird. He contradicted himself on

the same page

. I can't believe he already forgot that he used "hello" as a tell to SR Trendall.

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

Lol actually yeah I just looked at that and it does look really rough

Huh? How did you judge?

It takes like half a brain to realize how bad this attack on Lavar is. smh

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?

No, I said contradictions are scummy. Never said anything about RVS reasoning.

RVS votes with poor reasoning.

> X is scum for being the second poster (RVS) vote: X
> I don't actually think X is 100% scum for being the second poster

Wait, weren't we talking about contradictions? When did this become a talk about RVS votes? Anyways, I feel like there is still a contradiction in that sequence of events. I'd like to bring up clidd's post again:

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

"I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia" sounds like "saying hello does not confirm someone to be mafia". Then why use your RVS vote on him instead of me? I had some awkward behavior in Page 1...

So, it sounds like some contradiction is in play here. "confirms" doesn't mean "100%", you know.

Clidd is probably town

gut

:thonk:

Lavar is scum? How so?

Mainly his predecessor. I don't think Lavar's posts come from town more often than not.

Wha...

Lavar's posts ping towny to me, I want some evidence to why Lavar's posts come from mafia.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

:thonk: Bad reads =/= scummy. This should be pretty simple to understand.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

:thonk: :thonk: :thonk:

[ben dover123]

I'm inclined to say Rock has a good chance of having partner equity with clidd, since he is defending clidd from a contradiction attack and TR's clidd out of gut, but I'm not ready to accept this whole take yet since Rock hasn't shown anything that scumpings me directly. I also think that clidd has much more evidence against him then Rock, if clidd flips red we definitely want to watch Rock D2.

[clidd]

[clidd]

I don't have much to say until BM reveals his thoughts on the game.

[ben dover123]

I don't have much to say until BM reveals his thoughts on the game.

So, I assume you are likely never going to defend yourself against my meta attack?

I don't like this...but at least wagons are gaining traction. If your wagon was going by with no resistance I would be definitely suspicious of gamestate right now...

[Rockhopper]

Replied

Spoiler: Rockhopper's bad reads

That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.

This is Rockhopper overlooking a case of newbie town.

It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.

I disagree with you on this. I think that contradictions, in general, are scum behavior. Scum has to lie and if they don't keep track of their lies, they contradict themselves. clidd did explain himself later, which you can take it or leave it, but I don't think it's scummy to call out a contradiction.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?
That's a step town wouldn't miss when using the tell.

Wait a fricking minute here. So first you say that Pragdoid automatically equated contradictions to scumminess, then Chumbo makes a really good point, and now you say that Pragdoid's SR on clidd stems from an RVS vote with poor reasoning? Just what.
Also, clidd's contradiction was weird. He contradicted himself on

the same page

. I can't believe he already forgot that he used "hello" as a tell to SR Trendall.

Am I wrong to think that one is a subset of the other? The 'contradiction' is NAI, the same way it's NAI to give a completely random reason (which isn't seriously thought to be the case) to substantiate an RVS vote.

Rockhopper's entrance, on the other hand, rang some bells.

Lol actually yeah I just looked at that and it does look really rough

Huh? How did you judge?

It takes like half a brain to realize how bad this attack on Lavar is. smh

Except the discussion was about my entrance, before my vote on Lavar.

So RVS votes with poor reasoning are inherently scummy?

No, I said contradictions are scummy. Never said anything about RVS reasoning.

RVS votes with poor reasoning.

> X is scum for being the second poster (RVS) vote: X
> I don't actually think X is 100% scum for being the second poster

Wait, weren't we talking about contradictions? When did this become a talk about RVS votes? Anyways, I feel like there is still a contradiction in that sequence of events. I'd like to bring up clidd's post again:

We still are. I'm pointing out how a certain subset is NAI.

VOTE: Trendall

There is a tell for ''hello'' without vote.

clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.

VOTE: clidd

I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.

And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.

"I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia" sounds like "saying hello does not confirm someone to be mafia". Then why use your RVS vote on him instead of me? I had some awkward behavior in Page 1...

So, it sounds like some contradiction is in play here. "confirms" doesn't mean "100%", you know.

[Rockhopper]

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

:thonk: Bad reads =/= scummy. This should be pretty simple to understand.

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

:thonk: :thonk: :thonk:

Sure, bad reads != scummy in a vacuum, but my readlist in the previous page should appear to be obv!scum to any towny reading it. I state my opinion on how I think it's scummy to go along with the consensus, and immediately proceed to make a polarizing readlist with the most unsubstantiated garbage reads. That should look like maf trying not to contradict themselves while failing to give good reasoning in this context, and the fact that you didn't notice this points to you being scum more often than not due to TMI.

[ben dover123]

Woah, woah, woah, watch where you swing that TMI hammer around my dude.

Town - {BM, bend, clidd, Trendall, NAJON}
Scum- {Lavar}

This are just bad reads. How many times do I have to say that bad reads =/= you are scum. Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.

[ben dover123]

EBWOP: "This" is supposed to be "These"

Am I wrong to think that one is a subset of the other? The 'contradiction' is NAI, the same way it's NAI to give a completely random reason (which isn't seriously thought to be the case) to substantiate an RVS vote.

Except the discussion was about my entrance, before my vote on Lavar.

We still are. I'm pointing out how a certain subset is NAI.

1. Yes, I will agree that contradiction from newbies over anything that isn't reads is usually NAI, but this is a

SE

who is talking about

reads

. People who have played this long should not have trouble voicing their opinions out and trip over their own words, whether as scum is much more careful and end up contradicting themselves every now and then.

2. :omegalul: Let me state this loud and clear, your entrance was the beginning posts and your vote on Lavar, which was seen as rough.

3. This certain scenario isn't completely NAI though.

[Rockhopper]

Woah, woah, woah, watch where you swing that TMI hammer around my dude.

Town - {BM, bend, clidd, Trendall, NAJON}
Scum- {Lavar}

This are just bad reads. How many times do I have to say that bad reads =/= you are scum. Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.

Seems a bit out of proportion. I did say that I only had a scumlean.
VOTE: bendover123

EBWOP: "This" is supposed to be "These"

Am I wrong to think that one is a subset of the other? The 'contradiction' is NAI, the same way it's NAI to give a completely random reason (which isn't seriously thought to be the case) to substantiate an RVS vote.

Except the discussion was about my entrance, before my vote on Lavar.

We still are. I'm pointing out how a certain subset is NAI.

1. Yes, I will agree that contradiction from newbies over anything that isn't reads is usually NAI, but this is a

SE

who is talking about

reads

. People who have played this long should not have trouble voicing their opinions out and trip over their own words, whether as scum is much more careful and end up contradicting themselves every now and then.

2. :omegalul: Let me state this loud and clear, your entrance was the beginning posts and your vote on Lavar, which was seen as rough.

3. This certain scenario isn't completely NAI though.

2:

Have you read it back? Sheesh.

However around

iso 7

you get a lot better, I did mean to mention that just above but got distracted by another ben dover123 post.

[Rockhopper]

Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.

Why not? And how does that matter as a response to my read?

[ben dover123]

I'm pissed. Just. plain. pissed. Rock is really triggering me right now from his responses. I'm taking a break after this.

Oh, so now you vote me because you want to follow up on your "TMI" claim. Isn't TMI better than any reason you had against Lavar? Why did you only put me at a scumlean and not straight up vote me from the start? Out of proportion? Don't give me this bullcrap.

tbf Everyone was surprised where the heck that vote from Lavar came from. It was completely against the flow.

Why not? And how does that matter as a response to my read?

Don't gimme this burden of proof bullcrap. Purposely making bad reads is such a sub-optimal play for town I don't understand why you would do it. And this isn't a response to your read.

[Trendall]

Yeah ben dover123 seems to have misunderstood the conversation that Rockhopper and I had or something.

[ben dover123]

Hm. Maybe I did but...

I'm almost convinced Rock is the other scum alongside clidd now, Rock SR'ed me for TMI, an absurdly strong tell, a tell way stronger than anything Rock had against Lavar, and yet all he says is:

Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

At this point clidd has made enough content to be better than a "gut" read though. Actually, all of Rock's reads are really bad ngl.

And therefore scummy?

No, I'm not sure what to make of you yet. Rereading.

Interesting. You are now a scum lean.

No vote, no nothing. His scumlean came nearly

7 hours

before he explained the reasoning, which I assume either he constructed a case against me in those 7 hours because he needed to push me, or his reasoning for the scumlean was already set as TMI. If he constructed a case on the go, that just screams scum trying to progress the push of my miselimination and if he already had his scumlean set as "I had TMI", then him not voting there is indecisive scum who doesn't want to push me here.

He literally admitted to purposely creating a f***** up readlist, which is beyond sub-optimal play for town.

He says "bad reads =/= scummy" in a vacuum? He should know this is blatantly false (from plain experience), as bad reads are not a direct scumtell.

He is using burden of proof to deflect the fact that he is making bad reads.

(burden of proof is a logical fallacy, when used to deflect the person that is using this fallacy is trying to divert attention from one aspect of their argument)

Hm. Is it me or is it just so coincidental that when I start using emotions to pressure him, he leaves the chat? I must say....

VOTE: Rockhopper

clidd's meta case is a good case but this is just actually terrible coming from Rock.

[Rockhopper]

Lol. I was asleep during those 7 hours. I'm from India.

[Rockhopper]

Your AtE is definitely a contributing factor. You seem way to concerned with your image.

[Rockhopper]

I did agree with you about the 'bad reads != scummy' thing. It's just not the case here.

[ben dover123]

Your AtE is definitely a contributing factor. You seem way to concerned with your image.

Listen, I'm a really chill guy on any given day, but what you have said here is really triggering me very hard.

I did agree with you about the 'bad reads != scummy' thing. It's just not the case here.

Not the case here? wdym by that. Are you really going to say you are scummy because you have bad reads? smh. I'm done.

[Rockhopper]

Your AtE is definitely a contributing factor. You seem way to concerned with your image.

Listen, I'm a really chill guy on any given day, but what you have said here is really triggering me very hard.

I did agree with you about the 'bad reads != scummy' thing. It's just not the case here.

Not the case here? wdym by that. Are you really going to say you are scummy because you have bad reads? smh. I'm done.

I should appear to be, yeah.
'gut' is as lazy as it can get.

[ben dover123]

@above you should appear to be what?
"gut" is as lazy as what can get?

[Rockhopper]

@above you should appear to be what?
"gut" is as lazy as what can get?

Scummy.
Reason to vote.