In post 170, Iconeum wrote:Posting stuff like 'waiting for smt to happen' while having a scumread that ur not pushing or engaging with is mehhhh
If you think menal townslipped and considering that he did pretty much the same thing in post 86 that you're voting sal for, couldnt sal just as easily be town?
Trying to add more townreads to someone’s reads is +town
In post 276, DogWatch wrote:I'm always slow to vote beyond rvs, just a really slow starter in general
Tbh I don't have any major scumleans at the moment, creature is the only one whose really pinged me at all but not enough to vote yet
DW has always lacked reads, especially good reads, at key points in the game.
DDL’s jump from GL to texcat looked even more like bored town to me. like it’s bad but it just doesn’t appear to come from a scum perspective imo
And by Alex I mean Aaron, jesus christ I need sleep
DW mentions alim a LOT (like this slip up here) but it’s very rarely to comment on their alignment.
In post 604, DogWatch wrote:@alimdia, I missed it but I also don’t think it was ever relevant. You accused SS of posting neutral fluff but I don’t think my posts compare. Low output yes but I haven’t been neutral. I don’t scumread SS at all fwiw.
My unease about menal isn’t strong but it’s there, like I’m a little skittish about how widely townread he is over something that I found NAI and I think it’s been easy for him to coast on it. I joined his wagon but I don’t like it in retrospect. It does feel like a scum-driven wagon unlike the GL wagon.
I’m much happier here. VOTE: GL
I’m also remaining pretty adamant that this is Creature’s scum game, maybe I’m using old meta but I just disagree with amrun and texcat on him looking town.
I think this quote out of order but this is negative utility of Menal is a scum buddy. There’s a lot of other posts too, didn’t quite them all, that make me think DW/Menal is NOT a team.
In post 1713, DogWatch wrote:VOTE: menal
your ddl push is gross and your GL push is gross
Colors added by me. I would expect one scum above the line and one below, but possibly all above line for a “safe” player, which DW strikes me as.
Indicates datisi/dw/alimdia team, or icon/dw/alimdia team.
In post 2127, DogWatch wrote:I feel like my SRs are more process of elimination at this point, not so much that those slots have done anything overtly scummy.
{
GL, Amrun,
Icon, Menalque}
{Datisi, Alim}
{
SS, Gamma
}
Would expect one scum in top tier and one in middle. Indicates icon/alimdia/dw as most likely combo here IMO.
In post 2359, Amrun wrote:But I don’t really have a problem with a datisi/S_S scumteam anyway.
Would scum need to bus at this point? I think Datisi leading this wagon looks very town.
I didn’t like this post but it might be because I considered myself to be leading this wagon. Idk. This was in supposition of a S_S scumflip which scum DW would have known was not going to happen - was this an opening to pivot onto DW later? She was espousing a TR of me at this time so it would have been weirder to pivot to me.
If Icon is town and truly not gambiting then it makes more sense for gamma to be gun than for anyone else to be lying. So, gun to head, I'd say menal/amrun/dats but there was like 15 pages created while I was asleep so I need to go back through.
If Icon isn't gun then I'm scared that I'm not reevaluating him properly in light of that. I don't see menal/icon though.
Dats/menal doesn't seem that bad to me because if dats were scum and menal were town I think we'd have a NK'd menal by now. And I don't think they're both town for almost certain.
Tr'ing alim so by poe that leaves amrun. I could see some menal/amrun distancing in recent pages.
I dunno, this is a fucking mess. I'm going to ISO icon today and see if he fits moreso than amrun.
This is like the first time she mentioned Icon this specifically. This is also the closest she’s gotten to attempting to solve and it’s so open ended.
Conclusion: DogWatch is almost definitely scum here, and pretty sure any DW scumteam would include alim. However, I forgot some interactions with Menalque that make a DW/Menalque team very unlikely.
In post 174, Iconeum wrote:Alim, why the skitty reaction to my choochoo?
I don't even know what skitty means... wiki and google doesn't tell me anything.
But my reaction was mainly at Creature, using the same choochoo as you, who still hasn't explained his AF 'scumread'.
Salim or Alim, the first one of you to give us the name of your partner will be allowed to live into LYLO, at which point you shall be lynched. We apologize for having to put you through this process, but at least you can live a couple more days. After all, it's not our fault you rolled scum.
Speak
My partner is Datisi. Please let me live oh God. I can't take the guilt anymore!
Creature, what was this? Did you have a legit scumread on AF (which I don't see how) or were you just trying to get a wagon going?
I had a somewhat legit scumread on AF and probably still have
This entire sequence of posts is gross and inconsistent.
If you're scumreading me right now then why didn't you mention me in 176? What's your reason for scumreading me?
btw @Mod, I am not voting Icon atm, pretty sure my vote is on Creature
Exactly, thats why I did the choo choo thing @Amrun
however, I agree with Mena's #235 and 236, could you go on creature instead?
In post 276, DogWatch wrote:I'm always slow to vote beyond rvs, just a really slow starter in general
Tbh I don't have any major scumleans at the moment, creature is the only one whose really pinged me at all but not enough to vote yet
This post strikes me as scummy for not wanting to commit
In post 342, alimdia wrote:DogWatch also has the same issue, but less obvious because they have less posts!
These posts kind of pull DogWatch out of obscurity but I need to see when sally and I started the DW wagon on day 1 which IIRC alim never votes on. Either way for this gamestate, negative buddy points.
Thats all for tonight, had to catch up all my games, I will investigate the rapid Amrun wagon and its equally rapid collapse, along with the people in the wagon.
In the meantime, this is reminding me of another game where nobody ever follows my pushes.
UNVOTE:
Note: she was NOT voting dw here but still did not vote here even though the strongest SR she should have at this stage per her posting would be DW.
In post 731, Iconeum wrote:And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.
If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.
It's just the best lynch.
tbh same argument could be made for GL.
I agree with Salamence that DW is very opportunstic, but there are others also as opportunstic. They just post less so you don't notice.
Some examples I can point out right now is:
Creature: Read his ISO. Self explanatory
Texcat: He avoids the Amrun wagon but hops on the GL one. Then he shades me using what GL says in post #500.
As you mentioned, DW is also very opportunistic
This post is super weird. At this point, sally and I are going for DW, and alim is basically saying “yeah it’s scummy and I have been calling it scummy, but x y and z (all of whom are town) are just as scummy.” Definitely + buddy points
if creature is on L1, and deadline is <12 hours away.
Creature is v similar to textcat, DDR and DW. Idk how he got pushed over them.
Do you townread creature or is it more “I dont vote lurkers”
I'm actually happy to push lurkers out because if they're scum free win, if they're town then I don't want them in lylo too.
But this game has a couple of vigs at least to take the lurkers out.
GL just seems more dodgy, with my recent posts explaining why.
Is she happy to vote lurkers? Because she seems hesitant on DogWatch, and he ignored the others in this list too.
In post 1455, alimdia wrote:
It sounds like if we lynch amrun and they flip town, then the people on both wagons are very likely to be at least 2 scum.
However, if we lynch amrun and they flip scum, then the people in both are unlikely to be scum, or at least only one.
Finally, I think the town gun should claim if they are a Night 1 or Night 2 gun. It's basically a innocent child if nobody CC's
Other than this, I think pushing DW, texcat or GL is the way to go today.
In post 1522, alimdia wrote:Sorry also the first 2 sentences are basically saying that by lynching Amrun, we can figure out more info about who was on the wagon.
I think others have discussed that in the last 2 pages.
What’s your read on me, alimdia?
I think the case on you day 1 was pretty shet tbh. Your actual alignment is clouded because of that since you'd have defended the same way town or scum.
However there were 2 main wagons on day 1, and the other one flipped town.
Me lynching you would only ever be for complete vote analysis.
VOTE: Dogwatch
I'm also done with texcat (or if it happens.. .GL)
This is the FIRST time she voted DW, when DW not remotely in danger.
In post 2083, alimdia wrote:@ Datisi now that DDL flipped town can u explain how this affects ur Mena DDL theory (even tho u said it was not much confidence in it)?
Is mena more or less town now.
One of the first addresses to Datisi and a bit of an odd question.
but then you say she hasn't been playing her towngame
Whattup with that, Doc?
In post 1800, Iconeum wrote:DDL not responding in a townie way to a tunnel is like the best scumcase i've seen this game, and I don't have anything better despite *really* looking into this game.
I feel like alim is saying icon is scum here but she never actually says that. And it’s never brought up again.
In post 2082, Menalque wrote:Again, what is the benefit to them claiming now (so scum definitely finds out who they are and gets a guaranteed kill) vs having them claim at L-1 if needed
Any scum at L1 would also claim gun then, can they be trusted at this point?
If they're one of the scum looking people they should claim now. If they are in no danger of being wagoned, then sure, keep quiet.
But I much prefer if its one of the scummy looking people that claims now so we either get a 1v1 or we stop a mislynch earlier.
Who exactly are the scum looking people? Claiming it at L-1 still stops a mislynch and if scum were to claim gun then the real gun would CC and we’d either lynch scum or have a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow
Whats the benefit to having a 1v1 now esp when that’s likely to draw focus away from sorting other slots
scum looking people to me = DW, (Datisi OR SS), Gamma Emerald (texcat's spot), maybe GL
I would expect only one scum in this list. +buddy for Ico
In post 2009, Datisi wrote:S_S, reasons for alimdia TR? I'm kinda forgetting that slot exists honestly, and I almost find it a bit weird you've got a TR on them while you don't remember anything I've done?
wasn't I in ur town list in post 1568? (and 1912)
hm......
yes you were
and then you dissapeared for a while
I never reappeared between 1568(or 1572) and 1912.....
VOTE: Datisi
Random datisi vote with no progression. Can’t decide what it means.
But now I adjusted it cos I reread what the context after Datisi explained and its correct.
Scum reads:
Dogwatch
SS
Gamma Emerald
GuiltyLion
Color added by me. She could have excluded scum from this list entirely but it’s notable that DW is still on the list despite being 100% ignored by alim for a long time.
No - why? He’s one of my stronger townreads at this point.
What I was saying was that theres 3 main wagons on day 1 , if I remember correctly
Amrun
GL
Creature
There was also a wagon attempt on Aaronfrost but they flipped town.
So what I'm saying is one of the big wagons on Day 1 has to be scum, otherwise Mena is likely scum.
If you're town, you have to be POE'ing GL as scum, otherwise Mena. The fact that you're not... and instead have Datisi and I in your lynchlist just shot you up the scumlist for me.
I have never liked this post or this whole concept of forcing a 1v1 vs me and Menalque.
I know I am town so I don’t see the scum utility in trying to do this to a scum buddy since I’d likely to flip first and be town. Negative buddy points for Menalque
In post 2293, alimdia wrote:honestly I wanted to vote GA for ages but I was scared that people would be like 'zomg 3rd vote on someone'
In post 2428, Iconeum wrote:extremely sceptical that scum didn't bother to kill of either (menal/datisi), which are prime targets for scum (to target) imo
explain this
please explain in what universe am i a prime NK target after that Day 3
i consider the both of you to be high on a scum kill list; menal above you
if we look at town lynch record, it's pretty blatant just terrible, which means most town are on the wrong track (or scum are leading town)
scum (which probably also took at least 1 extra gun?), had to kill off players. They didn't select either player who i'd consider high priority targets
That doesn't answer my question, why *are* we the prime NK targets? imo GL was THE prime NK target last night and lo and behold he's dead
Also if you think Amrun is Town then scum would be even more braindead to kill me because Amrun is suspecting me and they need just one wrong vote
try again
pedit: well i am not standing there so
Wait why is GL the prime NK target last night? I'm not seeing this.
That being said I do have theories of why theres so little kills so far, but will wait for claiming time
What are these theories?
In post 2498, alimdia wrote:Just me trying to ask why Icon is getting TR by Amrun. The second part is just me saying Icon town read me (ez =easy)
Another example of trying to get TR I mentioned earlier. (Yes it’s jokey - but it’s used in place of content in this day phase several times)
I had a post from before about Amrun's weird about turn. Yesterday I said from Amrun's POV mena has to be scum (or SS)
He disagrees heaps.
Then after SS flips he does a 180 and says Mena scummy but not really, then settles on Datisi.
Then says I'm scummy for SRing him cos of that.
Doesnt seem like town train of thought.
Where is the DW scumread gone? Why is gamma now the one in all her solves? But DW isn’t? There is NO profession here. Why has she not been pushing DW all phase?
In post 3090, alimdia wrote:Also if solving again like....
DW or GA whoevers not gun
Amrun/Mena and Datisi ig? I needa reread Icon. My brain still thinks hes conftown when he went last in claim and nobody claimed gun, I needa fix that.
This is a weird post and I don’t think this is a real problem town has. It reads like an excuse.
In post 3217, alimdia wrote:@Amrun what do you think about my statement on the last day and today that one of you/Mena must be scum?
Still trying to push Mena vs Amrun and I still don’t like it.
Conclusion: there are a few things off in the beginning about dw/alim potential scumteam, but the weird half-defense when dw was actually being wagoned and the TOTAL loss of a seemingly very strong DW scumread is baffling to me. It makes alim’s reads look very ingenuine in hindsight and even if DW isn’t scum, alim still is.
However, again, I think alim/Menalque is an unlikely scumteam. That means Menalque is probably just town.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:44 pm
by Amrun
In post 127, alimdia wrote:Mena just admitted that he will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment tho
So I personally think Mena is null for that statement
I meant to include this. This is also negative buddy points for Mena.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:50 pm
by alimdia
I feel like you went through my ISO deciding I was already scum and is just massively shading me. I'll get on a rebuttal when I get home because some of these points are just trash lmao.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:07 pm
by Bingle
Is that town/scum indicative? Why?
Like, tbh, idgaf if she's shading you. I care about whether she's town or not. Defense is <<<< offense here, imo.
In post 14, Datisi wrote:I was trying to find some variation of "he said what we were all thinking" or "he's brave for telling the truth" in gif form but i didn't find anything good in the 3 minutes i was searching
SS, I’m getting scum vibes from you. I don’t think I’m right by any means, but I feel we’re about to be on different sides of the shift. (Not alignment wise, gamestate wise) However, it could be leftover from the last Guns/Roses.
I for one
love
bad puns. You gotta go for the bad ones to test the audience. Sometimes ya hit, sometimes ya miss.
I don't like this post. Don't understand the need for this callout, especially if you say it's not AI?
Looking for a town slip on a stronger player like Menal is +town
Salim or Alim, the first one of you to give us the name of your partner will be allowed to live into LYLO, at which point you shall be lynched. We apologize for having to put you through this process, but at least you can live a couple more days. After all, it's not our fault you rolled scum.
Speak
Now, Icon says alim’s early game was so towny, but these are the only real things he said about alim DURING early game.
In post 892, Menalque wrote:Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet
Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today
But I know ur worried about the fact that Datisi is
In post 731, Iconeum wrote:And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.
If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.
I know youre going to tell me its more about the other stuff he says but I don't see much of a difference between these two posts. Iconeum wants Amrun dead because hes scum apparently, and hasn't done anything since being asked by Menal to do so. Why is he doing it? Probably because he can get away with it in this game?
Instead of non-stop shading, can you like engage with me over stuff?
740 for starters - your words don't make sense with your actual 'reads'
Very weird post about Datisi that subsequently gets discussed a lot.
In post 979, Iconeum wrote:Salamance, ur not trying to sort me. You have been shading me all game, been calling for a vig shot on me, while also calling my play noob (why do you want a noob play vig'd?) and coasting. Which one is it?
If you are actually scumreading me, then push me. If you think i'm town playing bad/noob/whatever, then you shouldn't have asked for a vig shot on me.
Now we start into the Salamence20 push that I originally TR Ico for.
In post 992, Iconeum wrote:I know this is a reactionary play from me, but it doesn't mean i'm wrong about it.
This is image conscious, but a push on sally here is the opposite of image driven.
In post 995, Iconeum wrote:I did say 'was', and it was in reference to the current ones which I see no particular good reason for me to hop on
And no I just posted that to shade you for no good reason. /
I think what I wrote right there. It feels like ur not quite your town self, perhaps going with the flow some more rather then steering the raft.
If I thought anything major of it, i'd be all over your ass don't you worry.
These constant weird posts on Datisi I will never understand no matter Ico’s alignment. It’s like such an obvious associative tell that it probably just isn’t. Negative buddy points for Datisi.
Opens by questioning my slot in 179, calling me a scum candidate because I'm supposedly ignorant in my 149. Scumread because of ignorance is mehhhh at the very best, and a scumpush most of the time.
When I question him on the fact that he didn't try to push or sort his scumread in AF, he calls it an 'opportunistic' push. It's all very weak and shady.
He doesn't try to engage with me. He doesn't try to sort me.
Also says i'm likely to be scum with Amrun, the 1 slot i've actually efforted in trying to get lynched this game.
498 is more shading of my slot, without ever trying to confront me.
Then in 736, he wants me to be vigged. Ever since the start of the game, he's been on my ass for being ignorant. As time went by he tried to add to his supposed case on me, never coming up with anything actually pushable.
In post 1004, Iconeum wrote:I mean you have a very, ehm, forthcoming? way of playing town. It really stands out. And I'm not seeing that here, yet. That's exactly what I was trying to see how Menal feels about it (him having a ton of experience with you as well).
Yeah, in most cases I do. But it's tiring, and sometimes I do want to take a back seat for a bit.
And both the timing and the phrasing of the remark felt insincere to me. Plus, you've much more experience with town!me than he does, and you've seen me play this way as Town and get mislynched before.
Ur extremely defensive for a very minor thing I said
More weird Datisi posts.
In post 1044, Iconeum wrote:Salamence you've done nothing but take cheap shots at me all game, and been treating me incredibly unfair. If ur town I see absolutely no reason for you not to try and sort me properly instead of these under-the-belt takes you are having.
If ur scum, by all means keep going. Better kill me tonight then tho.
Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre
She's not of the fencesitting type and this post is yuck
More weird Datisi shit. No mention of alim townread, or any DW read.
In post 1539, Iconeum wrote:Yeah i'm just gonna say it out loud i don't care about fallout here, really
Datisi, you think my 'shading' of you was bad, but you questioned my motivation for Amrun, and didn't follow up on it. You think DDL is scummy I guess, and you think he's potentially theatring with Menal of all players? How can you honestly be trying to sort DDL if ur not saying Amrun in the same sentence?
Instead you go with the shading/fencesitty type of approach on what I think is one of the towniest slots in the game (Menal).
In post 1747, GuiltyLion wrote:what I also think is weird having reflected on it more is DDL townreading Menalque, like, this dude was calling you scum all D1 and trying to get you lynched and you aren't suspicious of him in the slightest? really? I suggest I might switch to DDL and he decides to call me out while making no mention of Menalque?
I legit lol’d when I read this. So I just went and ISO’d DDL again and menal doesn’t even make an appearance in the entire ISO with the exception of one offhand comment that DDL likes him. It does seem extremely unrealistic to barely mention someone who’s been calling for your blood like two game days straight.
I like this. It's indeed completely unnatural for town to stay that quiet about a slot pushing you this way. Reminds a lot about myself as scum who tries to ignore rather then engage.
In post 1740, DrDolittle wrote:It's more math. I had this list, i think if amrun is scum, then SS or dogwatch are partners. Then through the exchange I ruled out SS amrun partners, so that leaves DW. But DW is independently scummy too
extremely sceptical that scum didn't bother to kill of either (menal/datisi), which are prime targets for scum (to target) imo
amrun is likely town, my reasoning being I feel extremely confident that scum would want a lynch on me today, and amrun has not been setting that up, at all
And now, first mention of alim town EVER in Icon’s ISO.
In post 2475, Iconeum wrote:gamma - DW - Amrun - mena - datisi - Amrun - Ico
That means me/you/amrun/alim town
WHO IS THE FUCKING GUN
holy shit
fml
It did take him too long to “realize” gamma was gun. I was telling him and it was fairly obvious.
Also his solves really didn’t follow with his reads from the rest of the game. Re-evaluating is ok (and expected) but I don’t like almost total lack of mention of DW except as a compromise lynch here.
In post 3118, Iconeum wrote:I really don't think that scum!mena is interested in treating my slot as 'could be town' after our engagement
He had the position to hard-scumread me back then and nobody would blink about it, but he didn't
And if most or all of the flipped town had Amrun as top scum, they are all shouting at us from the grave rn. At least it will be a shared defeat then if it comes to that. Still barring my checkup tomorrow wrt to the other flipped town, but scum!mena also has nothing to gain by pointing us towards dead town players reads, unless he thinks that wins him his final mislynch, which means EVERY SINGLE TOWN WAS WRONG, and scum just win at that point
In post 2943, Menalque wrote:Icon turned up and shitpushed me (and you, which is making me think you have negative partner equity)
menal
why would I come into today pushing you if the scumteam has gamma singled out as the mislynch?
I pushed you prior to massclaim
Interesting post.
Conclusion:
I still think there wasn’t much scum benefit to pushing sally the way Icon did. However, in read it again, sally was such a little fuckhead that scum Icon may not have cared and the genuineness I read honestly could have come from scum.
Ico/Datisi seems an almost impossible team, and Ico/menal fairly unlikely, but Ico/dw/alim is really viable.
My heart still wants to TR Ico though :c
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:30 pm
by Amrun
In post 3278, alimdia wrote:I feel like you went through my ISO deciding I was already scum and is just massively shading me. I'll get on a rebuttal when I get home because some of these points are just trash lmao.
I didn’t though. And I forgot how you did call out some DogWatch things early and some other stuff that I did like.
I’m going through everyone’s ISO, not just yours, to look for possible associatives. I’ll decide best team when I’m totally done.
I surprised myself - kinda reversed my read on menal by doing this.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:54 pm
by alimdia
I point out sus shet ye, I think day 3 and after I got hella lazy and demotivated though.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:56 pm
by Bingle
I'm not going back to read anything, but if you want to link cases I'll look at them.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:14 pm
by Amrun
I keep fallsinf asleep. Trying so hard but don’t think I’ll make it.
In post 144, GuiltyLion wrote:I guess I would then clarify that it's jokingly correcting Mena but then not doing anything else that I find scummy, not the act of correcting itself
Err, what else was I supposed to do? Or are you referring to me being absent from the thread in general?
I think it's fundamentally just that I disagree with you that Menalque is likely to be thinking "3 is the correct number but I'm going to joke that it's only 2 people are scum". I thought it was town-indicative if not a straight townslip and I felt some kinda recognition that it was +town-indicative was missing from how you replied to him.
What's your read on Menalque now?
Hm. I guess it's agree to disagree since I think that (1) town!Mena would definitely know how many scum there are and (2) scum!Mena's got enough of a brain to fake a ~townslip~ like that.
He's a Townlean. Other than general ~tone~, 116 and 117 make me think that was because (1) I think I'd be someone scum!him would try to pocket so idk if he'd post 116, and if he was using it as basis for puching me later then I doubt he'd be BoP-ing himself wth 117 (since it is true).
In post 1004, Iconeum wrote:I mean you have a very, ehm, forthcoming? way of playing town. It really stands out. And I'm not seeing that here, yet. That's exactly what I was trying to see how Menal feels about it (him having a ton of experience with you as well).
Yeah, in most cases I do. But it's tiring, and sometimes I do want to take a back seat for a bit.
And both the timing and the phrasing of the remark felt insincere to me. Plus, you've much more experience with town!me than he does, and you've seen me play this way as Town and get mislynched before.
Agreeing you’re not playing to your town meta is pretty meh.
In post 1406, Datisi wrote:Hmm, I was waiting for you to ask that. Not much.
I don’t love this answer btw datisi
The dude's done p much nothing other than toot his own horn, call me scum and hunt for my ~buddies~. I'm not devastated he's dead.
This was about Pret. Shows Datisi was pretty aware of what kills would be optimal for her. I noted on day 2 that the night one kills look worst on Datisi.
Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre
This push was a thing that was pretty tinfoil. This is slightly more compelling reasons why Mena/Datisi aren’t a town. There’s really no reason for scum Datisi to push this knowing DDL will flip town. This would be extravagant scum theatre. If any pair is capable of that, it’s these two, but I kinda feel it would have had a lot more fireworks if it was theatre.
In post 1681, DrDolittle wrote:I want to do dog watch. I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not
Why is DW all of a sudden a stronger (?) SR for you rather thsn Amrun?
Eek, +buddy for DW
In post 1809, Datisi wrote:I am sorta getting paranoid that Icon's "only now" looking back at DDL when there's a serious wagon on
but knowing my ability to read him that probably means he's Town
probably
Just didn’t like this post.
In post 1892, Datisi wrote:Mena, I don't think you've ever answered, what made you think DDL was the scummiest slot in the game, and how is his disengagement here changing that?
yes, your D1 DDL """push""", and immediate dropping of said push for you being alive even tho 50% of the people voting DDL ended up dead
and also DDL barely mentioning you and having this sorta weird TR on you throughout the game that he handwaves as "townies are wrong"
and now you stopping his lynch again
well yeah exactly, I never really got the chance to push it D1 and when I did people stayed glued onto creature despite the reasons for SRing him being bad
also I don't think I dropped it today, I just said I wanted to reconsider? why is me saying I want to reconsider scum!indicative? esp when I was the strongest advocate for a ddl Lynch and the easiest way to control whether you're getting pushed or not is using the nk as scum to remove people who are likely to be problematic for you and ddl had plenty of reasons to believe I'd be problematic for him today (as in he didn't have good reasons to think I would consider my not being dead in this way)
I haven't got to that point yet but are you not also TRing me? so why is ddl TRing me weird? do you think he should be omgusing regardless of alignment?
also tbh if he is scum at this point then him continuing to TR me makes sense because somehow this "mena is bussing ddl" theory has gained traction
which also doesn't make sense because how are you reconciling my constant anti-bus position with me deciding to bus on D1?
and I'm pausing his lynch because I'd ideally like him to answer my questions without anyone being able to lolhammer, I'm only stopping it if his answers are enough to persuade me he's not scum
Where? You made an actual case on Amrun. All you did wrt to DDL was ask people to vote and make some arguements about inactivity or whatever. Like when you get the time I'd like you to kinda go a bit more in depth there and wrt your Creature TR
okay cool you wanted to reconsider but the only person who gave you any consideration for voting DDL ended up dead and you don't comment on that part at all, like if there was absolutely nobody listening to you except for that 1 person then removing that one person could do a very good job of stopping the wagon and I found it really weird you didn't even seem to consider that?
I'm TRing you yes, but it's shaky, and I'm very not sold on it yet. DDL TRing you wouldn't be as weird if he tried to actually engage with you about your SR on him and maybe try to get you to untunnel or anything? Like don't Townies getting pushed by someone they TR like try to interact with that slot? Instead he gives it p much zero thought and keeps TRing you regardless because "not in danger of getting lynched" or whatever
And I called it "theatre". In scum!Mena and scum!DDL world, that wasn't bussing. The way you "pushed" him, then dropped it gave a vibe of you not wanting to lynch him in the first place.
Yeah prob not buddies, Datisi would have committed here
In post 2009, Datisi wrote:S_S, reasons for alimdia TR? I'm kinda forgetting that slot exists honestly, and I almost find it a bit weird you've got a TR on them while you don't remember anything I've done?
Colored by me. Idk if she’d put both buddies in the middle like that.
In post 2214, Datisi wrote:Can we not bring people to L-1 with this little discussion in possible MyLo
This post was also pretty tinfoil. More to come on Datisi unless I crash out zzz
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:16 pm
by Amrun
In post 3283, Bingle wrote:I'm not going back to read anything, but if you want to link cases I'll look at them.
Please read the quotes I’m posting. You can disagree with my conclusions on them but I’m on purpose quoting some extra things to give you a little context, aware you haven’t read.
In post 2660, Amrun wrote:Especially if it’s gamma/Datisi which I see as pretty likely.
Please elaborate.
In post 2664, Datisi wrote:ok i skimmed Amrun's iso with ctrl+f "tex" and I went over texcat's iso
they don't really look aligned unless they were specifically going for bussing with given how much presence tex has I doubt it
so the team is either something like Amrun/Icon/DW? or Amrun is Town
i still don't want to believe Gamma's play comes from Town atp but would that then mean Mena's scum? unless the other proposed team of Icon/DW/Gamma
in other words i've no fucking clue anymore
remind me to yell at myself post game for diverting from Gamma
In post 2664, Datisi wrote:ok i skimmed Amrun's iso with ctrl+f "tex" and I went over texcat's iso
they don't really look aligned unless they were specifically going for bussing with given how much presence tex has I doubt it
so the team is either something like Amrun/Icon/DW? or Amrun is Town
i still don't want to believe Gamma's play comes from Town atp but would that then mean Mena's scum? unless the other proposed team of Icon/DW/Gamma
in other words i've no fucking clue anymore
remind me to yell at myself post game for diverting from Gamma
i think i'm off to sleep for a bit
i think this is still here
one of {Amrun, Gamma}
maybe one of {Amrun, Mena} but that would either mean Gamma is actually Town which is ??? or I'm misreading both Amrun and Mena which is also ??? OR the team is exactly Icon/DW/Gamma which i also don't think?
I was gonna say {Icon, Amrun} share alignment but I went over your iso a bit earlier and you were calling for Amrun lynch quite a bit before? so i'm a tad confused rn
in conclusion
yes
In post 2773, Datisi wrote:ok so fmpov: icon is town, and i'm assuming everyone's TR of alimdia isn't wrong
means 3 scum in [Gamma, Amrun, Mena, DW]
Amrun and Mena aren't scum together - if they are i'll be very shook
and I don't think Amrun and Gamma can be scum together either unless Amrun was doing a weird ass bus the whole game on a teammate that wasn't that active?
which would leave exactly Gamma/Mena/DW - i haven't checked this wrt wagons tho
alim, one of your teams includes both Amrun and Gamma, you think they can be scum together? also how do you come to exactly those two solves?
Just a collection of posting today I felt was very genuine and solvey. I might have a little “real time bias.”
That means me/you/amrun/alim town
WHO IS THE FUCKING GUN
This came off genuine.
Conclusion:
Datisi can only be scum with alim/DW.
So I basically probably have to decide between Ico and Datisi. Ico I tr most the game, and Datisi I SR most the game. And now I think I’ve reversed myself on them.
I think Menal will have to wait, I’m so tired.... I wanted to do VCA too, blah.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:09 pm
by Amrun
In post 116, Menalque wrote:I actually have mild scrumpings from her that she’s not posting more here
In post 117, Menalque wrote:But like v mild and I’ve read her right in every game we’ve played together since our first so I’m p confident I’ll get a stronger read on her by end of D1
Re: Datisi
In post 119, Menalque wrote:No, because I think datisi knows me well enough to know that I will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment
This originally had given me town vibes, plus how he SR people using this excuse to TR him. Scum doesnt typically give up free towncred.
The reason is that icon is generally v mislynch baity and so pushing him early tends to ping me if it’s from someone who knows him who should know that him being scummy doesn’t necessarily mean he’s scum
In post 236, Menalque wrote:Like you just called a whole series of creatures posts “gross and inconsistent” then voted a player who is often mislynched as town
Why is icon giving me towncred there worse than what you object to about creature’s posts?
+buddy points
In post 334, Menalque wrote:I kinda wish you were posting more but you’re mostly a tonal read for me and I don’t think you’re coming across as if you’re having hysterics in a pt while conducting this conversation
Re: Datisi
In post 501, Menalque wrote:So like I’m not properly caught up but at this point I think prob 2 scum in (amrun, sally, ddl)
Notable: all town
In post 566, Menalque wrote:I don’t really see either of those two as scummy
I’m p sure I was mindmelding with icon at some point which is normally a good sign unless it’s someone like skitter who can fake town thought processes well enough that I’ve mindmelded with her when she’s been scum
And dogwatch reads as newb!town to me even if she’s not a true newb
I think her amrun vote is towny as she goes from agreeing with her to voting her and I think scum are normally more concerned about showing their progression whereas town just go with it when their reads change so they’re more flipfloppy
Also I think a couple of people have been calling her scum and she’s p much just ignored it which is +townpoints
+buddypointsndornicon and DW
In post 646, Menalque wrote:I am ehh about the fact that icon and datisi have both disappeared since I said I was TR/TLing them
In post 588, DogWatch wrote:Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.
Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.
Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?
If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.
@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?
I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.
UNVOTE: amrun
Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.
@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.
I mean I'm widely TR bc I think I'm objectively the towniest slot in the game rn
I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?
I don't think I am still "so adamant" about it and idk why you're characterising it like that when I've actively said that I'm bothered by the wagon speed, I just don't think that amrun is necessarily towny for having played townier since getting wagoned
plus my initial progression on amrun is p clear if you actually read my ISO
I
think my initial concerns over her alim vote and her Pret interactions were bad, but tbh Aaron looks scummier now and that's prob +townpoints for amrun
Later explicitly says he didn’t say this which is ????
In post 892, Menalque wrote:Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet
Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today
. It was the amrun wagon that felt more scummy to me, not creature's.
Okay, why?
In post 1426, DogWatch wrote:tex and menal ping me most currently. I don't know what to think about SS yet but he is a possibility. If there's any scum on creature's wagon, I'd lean towards Icon. I don't think DDL is scum fwiw.
Why am I pinging you
Why is tex pinging you
Why don’t you think DDL is scum?
What makes SS a possibility?
In post 1754, Menalque wrote:I have very briefly skimmed since talking to GL but I'm not caught up
icon is probably town
I need to interact with datisi more but I'm sticking with lean town there for now
I'm still mixed on GL but I think SS may have had a good point although if either of them is scum I think the other one has +scum equity
dogwatch is prob town
if ddl flips scum then bussing isn't a bad thing to look at but it is a terrible thing to look at re:me given the fact that I am an outspoken proponent of not bussing and on a more meta level: why do I choose to break that as scum rn when team mafia is coming up in all of 2 weeks or so
on the other hand, I don't think amrun is scum really
ddl scum is probably AFF scum too and is probably clearing for amrun as I think that's a scum push
In post 1755, Menalque wrote:haven't really read gamma since he repped in, can't remember the last time alim did anything
In post 1650, Amrun wrote:I keep expecting S_S to explain that naked vote on me, but nope. Just hangin out for presumably no reason.
I strongly townread GL now, fwiw. On day 1 I could not follow his train of thought in a genuine way. D2, with the realization that he was comparing it so specifically to high noon, I do.
Menalque, why are you categorizing DogWatch as a lurker? I don’t.
because she has the lowest posts of everyone in the game aside from alim and tex/gamma!slot
I just checked and she had only 3 more posts than alim at the time that you posted this and he hasn't posted in 3 days so my question back to you is why don't you think that's lurky?
In post 795, Datisi wrote:Is there really no other reasoning you've kept your vote on GL, @texcat? Nothing else from him you find AI one way or the other?
VOTE: Creature
I don't wanna flip GL. I'm still okay going back to Amrun if possible, but I'm definitely not impressed by Creature so far either.
Partly to pressure that slot into providing some actual content, also because I'm really having a hard time understanding SS in this game. I REALLY don't get his Creature sheeping but I also read his 1v1 with Amrun as TvT, so my head is kinda spinning with his slot.
What was it about that exchange particularly that made you think it was TvT?
Ok I’m too tired to comment on every one. The basic gist is there is a soft defense of DW up in there but I don’t think DW and Menal are buddies due to other interactions, especially on DW’s part.
Conclusion:
I have talked myself into Menal being town. A menal scumteam would have to be like Datisi/menal/Ico and I just don’t buy that.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:20 pm
by Amrun
Here’s my solve.
The scumteam is {DW, alim} and one of {Ico, Datisi}.
Right now I’d pick dw/alim/Ico
I want to do VCA but probably tomoreow
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:21 pm
by Amrun
I still don’t like Menals posting today but I think there was some OMGUS mixed in with being too confident on my Ico read so PoE pool was narrowed. I also really forgot how much I don’t think DW/Menal is a team from DW perspective.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:44 pm
by Iconeum
I'm probably going to settle on voting Alim in a couple hours
In post 588, DogWatch wrote:Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.
Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.
Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?
If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.
@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?
I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.
UNVOTE: amrun
Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.
@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.
Ico's final solve
DW/amrum/alim
Menal pushed amrun very heavily, but it were town slots who deflated it at that time
This particular quote feels overly explained for an unvote, and seems like DW was happy to get off of the bus when it got to L-1 rather quickly
Amrun was hardcore townreading me and I think is now seeing that it can get me as a mislynch.
Alim comes into the team because I think Datisi and Menal are town.
If I'm wrong on Alim, then it's Datisi.
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:05 pm
by Iconeum
ignore the VC was doing research
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:27 pm
by Datisi
I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:31 pm
by Iconeum
In post 3297, Datisi wrote:I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?
I think they are the most solid team
Also in how they were aproaching my slot today, both solidly super hard townreading my slot
And now when they both see I can be the lynch they are both progressing towards scumreading me
I don't see why I would lynch Amrun over DW tho?
Any suggestion?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:32 pm
by Iconeum
Actually
Amrun is fine
That way I won't be shouted at by literally every town this game for ignoring their reads
