Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[mastina]

Btw no town vig ever kills House there, so you had to know I was scum

I mean, Amy was scum, and could've theoretically as last scum killed House, so I didn't know for sure. I did reasonably deduce tho.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

This is the type of game that's incredibly hard to get into as a replacement, which is a big reason i never did anything for game A

[Jingle]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13156124 File 1 (Neighborhood)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13132958 (Mod/Dead Thread)

[mastina]

As much as I'm glad that we were stressing about this setup so much for no reason, it feels kinda bad that we won because town just rolled over and died pretty much

Ditto for this.

It kinda tells you the whole story when the slot who is most interested in tryharding in scumhunting…

…Isn't actually town.

Certain individual town members definitely tried, but the town AS A WHOLE just…didn't.

[Taly]

Also Mastina thank you so much

When you said you believed I was one ofbthr strongest townplayers on the site it made me feel happy haha

[mastina]

wow i went 0/3 that's sad

and i was wrong on rce

(I'll tackle Jingles posts once home.)

If it makes you feel any better, nobody went 3 for 3. Everyone was at best 2/3.

[mastina]

Gg everyone. Ugh, I really wish mastina was in fact a survivor. I think this would have been different if there were extra kills. (Even if there weren't, mastina might have played differently and made it more apparent she was malevolent, but eh.) She still played well though.

I liked my fakeclaim more than my real role which I liked more than the role which I initially thought I had. (I initially thought that the only way I could win is by having two dead scum, then deliberately acting as a scum traitor to the last scum and keeping them alive until the end. Which is a pretty shitty version of survivor.)

[mastina]

I liked the open setup. I think the theme makes much more sense with the knowledge that mastina was a serial killer, but that's hard to tell as the game is going especially when there weren't additional kills. I think the normal would have been balanced with the checker being town-aligned and without modifiers.

For the record, I have gripes about the Wagon Analyzer and how it makes me claiming 3p mandatory.

While I realize that the game was designed to have me kill every night, in hindsight, me not having known that I could actually enabled me to not be speedlimmed.

I'm pretty sure that my reasons for hating the Analyzer here as a malevolent 3p still holds true even with the ability to kill.

Claiming 3p was still mandatory and in hindsight, not knowing that I could kill saved me because not killing was actually the strategically correct move.

[mastina]

(Re: the Normal tho, I stand by what I said, in that it was unacceptably scumsided, but details will wait until home.)

[Jingle]

In regard to my modding/ability to balance games, since it came up so often:

I'm not great at Normal balance any more, probably because the last time I was involved with an actual Normal was literally years ago. I tend to be more interested in reviewing or creating mechanically complex nightmares and opens. I do have plenty of games I've designed or modded that end up being less than ideal (the double mini Alyssa referenced is one of my worst offenders, for example) but on a whole my setups are generally well received and fun, if not perfectly balanced (see Innocent Evil People, as an example of the latter). I am entirely willing to put out a game that is completely unbalanced if I think it will be fun enough despite the lack of balance, but if/when I do so I ensure that the players know to expect that.

With that said, I think the fact that even despite my occasional fuckups, some of the best mods on site routinely trust me to give feedback on their games, the fact that most of my players continue playing my games and the amount of effort I put into analyzing possible scenarios when asked to review games my balance record is at least decent when you take into account that I usually do tackle horribly complicated monstrosities. OTOH, unless you like horribly complicated monstrosities or meme setups, my games probably won't appeal to you very much. I DO try to let the players know in advance what they're getting into.

[Jingle]

Certain individual town members definitely tried, but the town AS A WHOLE just…didn't.

To an extent this was true of all the games and the scumteams weren't exempt either.

[mastina]

(Also, this game isn't going on my wiki because it doesn't really fit format-wise. I would add it otherwise.)

You could try adding it as 3 separate games, with a note, maybe?

[House]

As much as I'm glad that we were stressing about this setup so much for no reason, it feels kinda bad that we won because town just rolled over and died pretty much

Ditto for this.

It kinda tells you the whole story when the slot who is most interested in tryharding in scumhunting…

…Isn't actually town.

Certain individual town members definitely tried, but the town AS A WHOLE just…didn't.

Tbf, I rarely ever do.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

If it helps, a lot of my comments about your balancing was directly because of my wincon, I don't actually believe you're bad at balancing as much as those more out there mechanics are a lot easier to miss something with

I'd hoped that my posting in the scum pt made that obvious enough anyways

[mastina]

Also Mastina thank you so much

When you said you believed I was one ofbthr strongest townplayers on the site it made me feel happy haha

Well you are. <3

[mastina]

If it helps, a lot of my comments about your balancing was directly because of my wincon, I don't actually believe you're bad at balancing as much as those more out there mechanics are a lot easier to miss something with

I'd hoped that my posting in the scum pt made that obvious enough anyways

Oh, I should mention that I don't think that Jingle is bad at balancing in general, he just is prone to missing the mark thanks to unforeseen circumstances in his games.

He badly botched the balance of the Normal IMO, but the game wasn't just the Normal, it was three games in one, and as a WHOLE, I actually have far fewer complaints.

I'll rant about balance in Normals as obligatory for a NRG member, and I have genuine beef about the lack of vital Intel as a 3p, but the game AS A WHOLE has a lot more good than bad.

I apologize if I came off as hating on Jingle.

I have always had fun in his games, this one included. I just also am very vocal with my critiques.

[mastina]

*missing the mark on occasion in some areas occasionally (my prior wording implied that it happened more than it actually does, this is more accurate)

[Dwlee99]

Thank you for hosting! I really enjoyed this game. Also sorry about my balance complaints about the mini theme in the scum PT. It's a lot more balanced knowing there is an SK and not a survivor lol

[Alyssa The Lamb]

The complaining in our PT was really more that the game just felt hopeless at that stage than anything I think, especially since the remaining two of us actually were in pretty okay spots

[Alyssa The Lamb]

We even argued about how we were going to try to endgame for a bit

[Dwlee99]

Yea I think cause we had two 1v1s and had to win both to win which felt kinda bad. I think we could have prevented me getting guiltied if I took into account the wagon role more (I was kinda just lazy) but was really shocked by the UB narrowing the poe that hard.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It's especially bad because it feels like 80% of my scumgames hit a point where the team itself is doing fine and then the setup itself is borderline PoEing us out

This is a lot of the reason I much prefer scum sided setups, I feel like towns get coddled a lot and it feels really bad to force scum to rely on killing PRs or they lose instead of killing players by townplay

Probably not a great spot for this discussion but that's the general feel I get playing scum in a lot of games here and it's the only real reason I don't like playing as scum more than town

[Jingle]

I liked my fakeclaim more than my real role which I liked more than the role which I initially thought I had. (I initially thought that the only way I could win is by having two dead scum, then deliberately acting as a scum traitor to the last scum and keeping them alive until the end. Which is a pretty shitty version of survivor.)

I like your fakeclaim from a design standpoint, but wouldn't include it in a game because ms has a murderboner for 3p roles.

I wouldn't have run the mini theme as a standalone because of the swingy as fuck nature of the game and the fact that the SK was even more disadvantaged than a normal SK, but I felt it was acceptable in a setup where the player also had two other games to care about to blunt the difficulty of the mini theme.

I would not have run a game with a strictly worse survivor without major mechanical reasons the survivor wouldn't die (a savior seraph knight targeting it, for example). I like difficult roles, not impossible ones.

[Jingle]

If it helps, a lot of my comments about your balancing was directly because of my wincon, I don't actually believe you're bad at balancing as much as those more out there mechanics are a lot easier to miss something with

I didn't take either of yours or mastina's comments in game personally. It was more in response to Ircher in the neighborhood not knowing about my record with balancing games.

And let's be 100% clear, I have had some truly marvelous fuckups. (*cough*Tenet*cough*)

[RCEnigma]

I had a blast in the parts I did get to play in. This was a super fun format and I'd definitely sign up for future iterations.