VP Baltar wrote:Trilo, I take it you three believe at least somewhat strongly that SpyreX was rezzed by Furpants? Seacore, the same?
It can't be ruled out, and Furpants isn't around to tell us.
There are other possibilities I'm mulling over that I haven't been able to rule out either.
I do not intend to vote Spyrex on the basis of setup speculation where there exist alternatives to him being cult.
I am happy on the other hand to lynch him on the basis of his play providing he is the scummiest player. I agree he's been scummy, but right now I find Andrius scummier, and I don't find Vas' meta defense moving.
Also VP, what are your thoughts on Andrius?
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:40 am
by VP Baltar
My read of Andrius right now is that of stupid town who doesn't read the rules closely. I agree that he's been in the background like you said, but so have many players and I think that's kind of a null tell since both scum and town may be prone to lurk in this setup. This is why I asked someone who knows him well (and who I consider town) if this was the norm for him, which was confirmed. Why are you dismissive of Vas' meta of him? Seems like you're ignoring evidence to fit your view of the situation. It's either that or 1) you don't trust Vas right now or 2) you don't trust Vas' ability to read Andrius. In either of those cases, I think I would like you to explain why.
What is your assessment of SpyreX's play apart from the rezzing issue? Do you feel he's played a pro-town game?
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:04 am
by Trilobite
VP Baltar Post 3376 wrote:My read of Andrius right now is that of stupid town who doesn't read the rules closely. I agree that he's been in the background like you said, but so have many players and I think that's kind of a null tell since both scum and town may be prone to lurk in this setup. This is why I asked someone who knows him well (and who I consider town) if this was the norm for him, which was confirmed. Why are you dismissive of Vas' meta of him? Seems like you're ignoring evidence to fit your view of the situation. It's either that or 1) you don't trust Vas right now or 2) you don't trust Vas' ability to read Andrius. In either of those cases, I think I would like you to explain why.
What is your assessment of SpyreX's play apart from the rezzing issue? Do you feel he's played a pro-town game?
First off, we're not dismissing anything. Zach said he isn't moved by the meta defense and neither am I. It's been taken under consideration but for now we'd much rather see Andruis engage himself in the game rather than write him off as stupid town AKA a VI. I'm sick of this being the standard response to game mistakes quite honestly. There is a scum motivation to his play.
Right now he is locked in a commune cycle which means he is picking up explained insanities
every night
He wants to drop his books for some unknown reason but didn't want to “waste” them. It's all too convenient for me and I'm not going to stand back and let him get away with it because I think he might be a little stupid when it comes to the set up. If anything I think he is more likely abusing a loop hole to explain away his insanities, AKA pretty damn smart.
I like Vas in this game actually, his word has a little weight, but I do my best scum hunting by questioning and pushing my suspect. Reading what Vas had to say and just going "oh well if
Vas
thinks he's town we must be wrong"... really doesn't vibe for me. I want Andrius to come back and respond to us, I don't see how that is so unreasonable.
As for Spy, we have said a couple of times now I believe, that we have no issue with his lynch and that we think he has been independently scummy outside the no rezz claim. He was a non presence early on in the game. His tunneling on AV was poor and if he is cult, Plum is a likely buddy because their interactions just feel fake to us. At no time have we stated that Spy has played a protown game. At no time have we said we are strongly against the Spy lynch. There are some slight gut rumblings, but nothing to make us want to fight the wagon at all.
We are not against voting for Spy if you need our vote for the lynch, right now however we don't want another quick lynch like yesterday. I see no problems discussing other potential scummy players.
~Sotty
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:21 am
by xvart
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:37 am
by Trilobite
Xvart's list reminds me, what happened to Nico?
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:58 am
by VP Baltar
Trilobite wrote:Xvart's list reminds me, what happened to Nico?
This is mainly who I was thinking of when I was talking about others drifting into the background as well. (also, TNM, NPAU, Wraith, etc.)
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:00 am
by VP Baltar
In fact, I don't want this day to end until Nico comes in here and gives some major game analysis. I'll unvote if necessary.
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:11 pm
by Seacore
I think some prompts are necessary.
On the Spyrex front, I'm going to pretty much echo Trilo. I don't feel that an unclaimed rez is a sufficient point to damn him. I'm really not comfortable with TNM (I think it was him) trying to set that up as a default. Make's mislynches too 'automatic' and easy.
For the other points against him, I'm not convinced, but I can see their merit. In a way, I'm comfortable with the case but I expect him to flip investigator. I've debated writing that because it feels like something scum would say, but it's true. And given how wrong I was on the MoI front, (although he wasn't cult, yay me?), I'm willing to be lead.
Re: the defence of Andrius, I think meta can be discarded in a game like this. It is too easy for scum to blend in with everybody "not understanding" the game. Particularly when we had people like Furc in it. So just because someone's scum meta is to jump in and get over-involved doesn't mean they'd do it as scum in this game.
Because that is all you need to violate each of the three voting restrictions twice since Seacore has voted for you earlier.
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:02 pm
by Seacore
Just waiting on Nico and Nopoint.
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:30 pm
by Benmage
I'm sick
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:04 pm
by Iecerint
There's always aversion, or whatever the no-voting one is, if we really want to tax poor Percy. :X
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:25 am
by VP Baltar
Seacore wrote:On the Spyrex front, I'm going to pretty much echo Trilo. I don't feel that an unclaimed rez is a sufficient point to damn him. I'm really not comfortable with TNM (I think it was him) trying to set that up as a default. Make's mislynches too 'automatic' and easy.
It's not the main point though. It's corroborating evidence. It's the nail in the coffin. He tunneled the shit out of AV and didn't do a whole lot else. That's genuinely scummy behavior. It's not a default lynch either. My guess is that if EL G hadn't effed up so bad, SpyreX's lynch would have happened yesterday. So what is the opposition to it today? I don't get it at all. You lynch obv. scum players, not make excuses for them being "easy" targets.
Seacore wrote:given how wrong I was on the MoI front, (although he wasn't cult, yay me?), I'm willing to be lead.
Lead by who, Trilo? Trilo was right about MoI, but on the other hand, so was I. I have a lot of respect for every player in the Trilo hydra and I'm willing to listen to everything they have to say this game (unless I feel I can't trust them), but I honestly feel they have their blinders on right now because it was a fast wagon. Scum is scum, kill it with fire.
Seacore wrote:Re: the defence of Andrius, I think meta can be discarded in a game like this. It is too easy for scum to blend in with everybody "not understanding" the game. Particularly when we had people like Furc in it. So just because someone's scum meta is to jump in and get over-involved doesn't mean they'd do it as scum in this game.
Perhaps, but I don't feel it can just be written off as a possibility like that. I think for someone who hasn't played the game before, you have an exceptionally good understanding of the setup. However, I can completely understand a town player making a few mistakes due to misreading the rules or passing something over. It happened to me the last game. It comes down to how meticulous you are. Vas is vouching for Andrius and saying he's not always great with the details. Now, could the scum fake this? Sure, with a little coaching (presuming he still wouldn't understand the rules regardless of alignment). But that doesn't mean it isn't equally or even more likely (given the odds of drawing scum) that he would mess up as town. So, I suppose I can see why you want to call it a null-tell, but even so I'm not sure if I'm willing to dismiss it out of hand as a possibility. I think him messing up as town is certainly more likely than town-SpyreX playing very poorly AND being rezzed by Furpants.
Additionally, that wasn't the only point Vas mentioned. I'm not calling Andrius a solid town read by any stretch of the imagination, but I do trust Vas right now and if his read of the situation is in line with my own, I'm certainly not going to pass over a likely scum in SpyreX for that lynch.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:04 am
by Seacore
@VP, just quickly before I go to bed. I mean being lead by the crowd to lynching Spyrex. As in, I understand the cast, and despite my gut feeling that he's town, I'm willing to lynch him over several other people.
I'll try and articulate my scum feel on Andrius tomorrow.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:05 am
by Triglav
Silliness is happening in this thread.
Contrary to poplar belief Triglav is always dead serious.
This is our serious face.
Stop the silliness.
We are lynching SpySpy today because SpySpy must die.
Andrius can be stalked if someone is so sure of him.
Finalize plan of graverobs.
Figure night action chart.
Let us commence to the deaths.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:17 pm
by Seacore
two things are missing from that to do list Triglav. The NoPoint and Nico need to post do the voting test.
And both of them need to contribute some opinions/ or be replaced.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:18 pm
by Nicodemus
Well, this should come as a surprise to absolutely no one, but I was absent from the game over the whole night phase (visiting my girlfriend, mafia is not a top priority), and so I cowered and took twitchy.
No, I'm not caught up, and I would replace out except I'm loathe to saddle anyone with this woeful slot and 136 pages to read, so I'll stick it out if you guys want me to. Oh, and since it will probably be brought up sooner or later, I am definitely okay with graverobbing.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:18 pm
by VP Baltar
Seacore wrote:two things are missing from that to do list Triglav. The NoPoint and Nico need to post do the voting test.
And both of them need to contribute some opinions/ or be replaced.
