Mafiascum.net

Doing VCA on D1 wagons when you don't even know Cakez alignment is pretty futile

Well I went to check it and it turns out Battle Mage did back off of the Dunn wagon before I did. That means I'll have to take a fresh look at that move in my redone VCA.

It is very unclear to me what made his progression horrible if the only thing you had in mind to point to was a vague idea of vote timing.

In post 3377, Prism wrote:It is very unclear to me what made his progression horrible if the only thing you had in mind to point to was a vague idea of vote timing.

The progression was the fact that I thought BM panicked as he saw the mastina wagon growing. That apparently seems to be incorrect.

In post 3375, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Doing VCA on D1 wagons when you don't even know Cakez alignment is pretty futile

+1

That’s why the closest I can get is a PoE.

If Cakez is town then Dunn or Titus almost certainly is scum.
If Cakez is scum found scum on the Cakez wagon and it’s possible everyone else is town and scum were all on the Mastina wagon.

Hence why I really wish Cakez was vigged/checked/something.

People let Titus do her VCA and we will see if it is decent or just as bad as the rest.
Ie is she assuming Cakez town in it?

Does she need to do two VCAs to avoid inherent biases.

Mainly her play has been all assumptions and she needs to just do it.

In post 1299, penguin_alien wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.08

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, GreyICE
Titus (4): sangres, Prism, SirCakez, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team, Dunnstral, Titus

Not voting (2): Tammy, borkjerfkin


Mod notes: 51/85 pages used

In post 1755, penguin_alien wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.15

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (1): Battle Mage
Titus (5): SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 69/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Prodding GreyICE

The static nature of Math v Cakez v me indicates at max 1 scum. mastina and Dunn were not neighbors on the Cakez wagon. There is conftown in the middle. Still if Dunn is scum, then the Cakez wagon is overloaded here. It seems most likely that we're looking at T v T v T and scum didn't care.

In post 1880, penguin_alien wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.16

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (3): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez
Titus (3): borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear
SirCakez (4): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (6): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism, Battle Mage, Spiffeh

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 74/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Here's the first mastina wagon. Counters are me, Cakez and Dunn. My wagon has been dying for awhile. Sircakez and Mathblade both jumped to Dunn, effectively killing my wagon. It's a net null because they killed one town wagon to start another on likely town. Both act like townbeards.

Also worth noting that GreyIce wasn't the first on this wagon. Math (point in his favor) and Bell voted first but left the wagon for various reasons. Bell coming back is a better look for him. Math not coming back is a minor point against him. I'm more persuaded by Math voting scum alone.

Spiffeh voting here could be a bus. We have GreyIce (early stayer), sangres (conftown), Bell (comes and goes off... weak town on that), Prism (solid town by play), Battle Mage (who gets townier for later [I originally thought BM was consistently bussing when the mastina wagon took off but he's a momentum shifter)], and then Spiffeh who largely has been silent on the T v T v T wagons.

In post 1950, Cabd wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.16b

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (6): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez, Battle Mage, Spiffeh, Titus
Titus (3): borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 76/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Both Battle Mage and Spiffeh jump here. I think Spiffeh tried to convince me to vote Dunn here (need to check). If he did and didn't on mastina, that's an indication of a bus.

In post 1991, Cabd wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.17

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (4): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez, Spiffeh
Titus (1): borkjerfkin
SirCakez (6): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus
mastina (5): GreyICE, sangres, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy
Mathblade (1): Bell

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 77/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

We have Battle Mage abandoning and starting to kill the Dunn wagon. I moved from one town to another town that countered scum, so I get I look bad here. Tammy jumps onto scum mastina here, which is a good look for her given her large silence.

On Cakez we have scum, town, town, town, ?, town. I just can't buy Pooky town in that VC there. I just can't.

In post 2029, Cabd wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.18

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (3): quiet, SirCakez, Spiffeh
Titus (1): borkjerfkin
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade
mastina (5): GreyICE, sangres, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy
Mathblade (1): Bell

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 79/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

In post 2091, Cabd wrote:Afternoon Vote Count 1.19

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade
mastina (7): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell
Mathblade (1): Sangres

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 81/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening
LLD is V/LA.

Bell and Bork jump onto mastina, tying the wagons. Either could go to SirCakez and get a likely town miselimination.

The only way those two should be considered as scum is with a SirCakez flip.

In post 2122, penguin_alien wrote:Final Afternoon Vote Count

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade
mastina (9--BRONZED): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 83/85 pages used (switching to post count here: 2080/2125 posts)

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening
LLD is V/LA.

Flip incoming

We know quiet slot was town. We know KTT was town. We know LLD was town. Dunn is likely town because scum scum likely don't park together that long. That leaves Pooky and Math to try and save the wagon. Math has consistently voted as a townbeard though aside from his early mastina vote. So I'm really liking Poooky as the vote to try and save mastina.

Spiffeh's VCA looks worse in this second go around.

A lot of the usual town suspects still came back as town this go around, Cakez, Dunn, Tammy, Bork, Bell, Math (as beard), and Prism.

My revised solve would be Spiffeh, GreyIce, Pooky. Although GreyIce isn't that confident of a read. He's more a PoE VCA.

And what if Cakez is scum?

Where is your VCA for that?

You keep saying Cakez is likely town.

What this reads to me is elim Cakez and if he flips red elim you, or elim you first in the PoE of three because of vote orders when LLD+Pooky were a leashed unit and your VCA is not accounting for that. Even if you disagree with the mason read VCA should treat LLD+Pooky as one position.

In post 1099, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

Also, Pooky got my back so he better not vote anywhere I don't vote.

I'm watching you bear. That foam finger should have my face on it.

Literally anywhere LLD voted Pooky would vote.

This feels like the billionth time I have quoted this post:

How many times do they say “got your back” with each other?

So many times they need to open a firey bear spa.

Foam finger in LLD’s avatar is a #1. Top town reads are your #1 reads aka mason partner

I can do this all day Titus.

Your VCA is flawed or you’re scum here.

You should have put me in it if you’re scum.

In post 3383, MathBlade wrote:

In post 1099, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

Also, Pooky got my back so he better not vote anywhere I don't vote.

I'm watching you bear. That foam finger should have my face on it.

Literally anywhere LLD voted Pooky would vote.

This feels like the billionth time I have quoted this post:

How many times do they say “got your back” with each other?

So many times they need to open a firey bear spa.

Foam finger in Pooky’s avatar is a #1. Top town reads are your #1 reads aka mason partner

I can do this all day Titus.

Your VCA is flawed or you’re scum here.

You should have put me in it if you’re scum.

Edit by way of post.

I mean I wish I was scum.

I am sad I am not

In post 3382, MathBlade wrote:And what if Cakez is scum?

Where is your VCA for that?

You keep saying Cakez is likely town.

What this reads to me is elim Cakez and if he flips red elim you, or elim you first in the PoE of three because of vote orders when LLD+Pooky were a leashed unit and your VCA is not accounting for that. Even if you disagree with the mason read VCA should treat LLD+Pooky as one position.

The VCA suggests Cakez is likely town. I have suggested multiple times throughout this thread what the situation would be if Cakez is scum. I don't buy it based on my VCA or what would have to be scum if wrong as I townread those slots. We've been over that ad finetum and I don't care to rehash it until you give a Pooky scum discussion. You aren't discussing with me in good faith until you consider the possibility you may be wrong. I have no problem reconsidering when my assumptions are bad. I do have a problem having the same discussion 5000 times.

Either do an analysis supposing Pooky scum, or shut up about me redoing my analysis again supposing SirCakez scum.

In post 3383, MathBlade wrote:

In post 1099, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

Also, Pooky got my back so he better not vote anywhere I don't vote.

I'm watching you bear. That foam finger should have my face on it.

Literally anywhere LLD voted Pooky would vote.

This feels like the billionth time I have quoted this post:

How many times do they say “got your back” with each other?

So many times they need to open a firey bear spa.

Foam finger in LLD’s avatar is a #1. Top town reads are your #1 reads aka mason partner

I can do this all day Titus.

Your VCA is flawed or you’re scum here.

You should have put me in it if you’re scum.

Enough with this mason spam ffs.

Pooky and LLD were buddying. Masons don't openly act like that. You're so dead set on Pooky mason that you're not willing to have a rational discussion.

Until you're willing to consider you may be wrong, we have nothing to talk about.

Since you won’t give me an honest discussion with an honest VCA taking into account all parameters I guess this discussion is done and I just keep my vote on you. You don’t get to demand I have to lie in thread in order to get what is likely BS from you. You’re not even following your own rules of VCA.

The static nature of Cakez v Titus v Mastina (which you I guess typoed) does not indicate max one scum. Hell if all three of us were scum (I am not I am just positing it for sake of argument) then a wagon stall is bound to happen with how lurky Mastina was. You had a lot of time to do this, why does this read like you’ve made a conclusion before you typed it?

“Still if Dunn is scum the Cakez wagon is overloaded” << This quite frankly is gibberish. Overloaded with what?

TvTvT is factually impossible with Mastina scum.

TVSVS makes a lot more sense as to why things were stalled.

And that is just the first paragraph Titus.

Town you is better than this.

Let me put it this way.
A mason I am not expecting would have to flip to get me to consider I am wrong on Pooky.

The problem resolved itself.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

In post 3389, Titus wrote:Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

My VCA is simple.
Mastina flipped scum.
It is unlikely by play that three scum are on Mastina.
Therefore there is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/Pooky.
LLD was leashed to Pooky(a fact regardless of alignment) so LLD was a double voter.
So even if you disagree with mason claim it is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/me.
I am not scum and would never include me in a PoE.

You adamantly deny Dunn and Cakez are scum so that leaves me with the most probable option you being scum.

End VCA

After that, I plan to be out for a day or two. After working ten to twelve hour days, I'll need some time to recharge. I did the VCA because I promised I would.

Realistically, I am just putting reads out before I get eliminated and praying for a Math vig.

In post 3386, Titus wrote:Pooky and LLD were buddying. Masons don't openly act like that. You're so dead set on Pooky mason that you're not willing to have a rational discussion.

you have clearly never seen my mason game :3

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85481

In post 3390, MathBlade wrote:

In post 3389, Titus wrote:Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

My VCA is simple.
Mastina flipped scum.
It is unlikely by play that three scum are on Mastina.
Therefore there is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/Pooky.
LLD was leashed to Pooky(a fact regardless of alignment) so LLD was a double voter.
So even if you disagree with mason claim it is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/me.
I am not scum and would never include me in a PoE.

You adamantly deny Dunn and Cakez are scum so that leaves me with the most probable option you being scum.

End VCA

Leashed is NAI. Leashed just means Pooky takes no responsibility for his vote.

A VCA gives theories as to who is town and who is scum.

You're not giving theories. You're trying to force the game into your narrow pool. You don't give input as to which votes are bad or good. You arbitrarily decided that you want to search in a particular spot. Me telling you that you're wrong is not an invitation to vote me.

There are legitimate reasons to vote me. Refusing to vote town is not one of them.

Titus have you even read my cakez case yet?

like do you have actual reasons why its wrong?

In post 3392, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:

In post 3386, Titus wrote:Pooky and LLD were buddying. Masons don't openly act like that. You're so dead set on Pooky mason that you're not willing to have a rational discussion.

you have clearly never seen my mason game :3

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85481

I jumped to the mod PT to find out who your partner was then I find out it's a wacky game where you didn't even know your own partner. So not only do I need to compate, I have to read a whole other game until I find out when you know you're a mason to make a comparison.

Second, I am not mason hunting.

I owe you a look at your Cakez wall tomorrow but that game comparison is a bridge to far.

When you try to narrow the mason pool for the mafia by saying ___ can't be a mason because ___ you are kind of mason hunting.

There's literally no need to speculate about who is a mason or is not a mason.

they will claim if they get run up

end of discussion.

we don't have a protective anymore, lets just catch bad guys

In post 3393, Titus wrote:

In post 3390, MathBlade wrote:

In post 3389, Titus wrote:Just because I disagree with you doesn't make my words dishonest, antitown or anything else.

Yes, the static nature of those wagons does mean at max 1 scum. If SirCakez and mastina were both scum, then the wagon on me would have taken off rather than disintegrating.

Overloaded with scum. You can ask a question because you're confused rather than jumping to a negative conclusion.

Go ahead and present your own VCA and reads list.

You can engage with my reads by play.

For the rest of you, I intend to combine my VCA and play reads into a final categorized readwall.

My VCA is simple.
Mastina flipped scum.
It is unlikely by play that three scum are on Mastina.
Therefore there is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/Pooky.
LLD was leashed to Pooky(a fact regardless of alignment) so LLD was a double voter.
So even if you disagree with mason claim it is scum in Cakez/Dunn/you/me.
I am not scum and would never include me in a PoE.

You adamantly deny Dunn and Cakez are scum so that leaves me with the most probable option you being scum.

End VCA

Leashed is NAI. Leashed just means Pooky takes no responsibility for his vote.

A VCA gives theories as to who is town and who is scum.

You're not giving theories. You're trying to force the game into your narrow pool. You don't give input as to which votes are bad or good. You arbitrarily decided that you want to search in a particular spot. Me telling you that you're wrong is not an invitation to vote me.

There are legitimate reasons to vote me. Refusing to vote town is not one of them.

VCA does not give theories.
It is simply a collection of facts and the facts speak for themselves.
I did not arbitrarily decide to search in a spot. I searched in a spot based on a simple question: Are all the scum bussing Mastina? No >> Boom PoE generated.
With later scum elims this isn’t always as cut and dry because day play etc has to be taken into account but on D1 it is highly unlikely all scum bus.

I don’t give input as to which votes are good or bad because I can’t without Cakez’s alignment.

If Cakez and Mastina are both scum the narrative is wildly different than if only Mastina is.

It can be quite possible that you’re TMIing Cakez town or wanting to die to make scum look better or Cakez is scum and you’re town (this possibility sucks) or it could be Cakez town you town Dunn scum (this is imho the worst because probably two miselims to find it out.

The only way this PoE is bad is if all the scum are bussing Mastina and/or Pooky is not a mason.
Which if you’re right and Pooky is not a mason and is scum (again I don’t believe this) then scum can’t ever kill a mason because they don’t know if two or three or what. As soon as they kill a mason who is not Pooky (unless they kill me then huzzah if I am third mason as it proves Pooky)

Pedit: Fine do you want Cakez today or Titus Pooky?

I don’t think Titus’s slot is salvageable here.

I'd rather get Cake but I'll defer if you guys want someone else and just be salty post game if we lose

by salty I mean stop caring