In post 2679, KingdomAces wrote:Looked over BBMolla, and he doesn't seem to different from what I've seen of him elsewhere. A lot of one liners, spamming multiple posts in a row instead of consolidating into one post. The main difference is he doesn't seem quite as antagonistic as I remember him being. That could be because he isn't completely sure of anything this game, or I'm just remembering incorrectly, but there's definitely a possibility that he's playing carefully to try to get less heat than he normally does.
Most of what ProHawk's talked about this game has been theory. Ignoring all of that, the main things left are his continual suspicion of Morph and his townlist which among other people consisted if Pyro, who would go on to get killed, and Dr. Pepper. The first thing I'll say is that he's probably not scum with DP, and I don't think I need to explain that. The way he pressed Morph all game see,s like he's actually truing to get them to think and be more useful, which I don't think he would do as scum unless he knew Morph was scum as well, so he's a townlean as long as Morph still looks town.
Spoiler: Current Readlist.
Town:
PeregrineV
pieguyn
Ghostly Penguin
1baldeagle1
Townlean:
Lost Butterfly
Harakiri
zMuffinMan
ProHawk
Lord Mhork
Null-Town
morph the cat
More analyisis required:
VoidedMafia
Nero Cain
JacobSavage
Null-Scum
Garuda
BBmolla
uʍop ǝpısdn
Scumlean
Seanald
Unfortunately for me, this means I pretty much have to attempt to analyze Nero the next time I'm on, because I'm running out of other people.
Reads list is weird. Upside down is scummy because N, molla is scummy because he's not being antagonistic (although kingdom could just be misremembering), town reads because ???.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:33 pm
by Garuda
Like he focuses hard on scum reads but null scum reads who aren't easy targets, waffles the hell out of them and leaves himself outs in every read. He also tries to hand wave things when he's proven wrong instead of going (oh, my bad, misread), which I don't like at all.
In post 2677, KingdomAces wrote:Yes, several people have already mentioned it, though I don't think anyone has stated any reasons except for the fact that I'm useless and behind in this game. I'm trying to fix that, but as I said earlier, it's a process.
Crazy thing is, everyone is a potential PR in this game, cause $$$$$. So the fact you are being useless is baffling as well as scummy.
Except for the fact that I gave up all my money, so I'm not actually a potential PR anymore. Also I'm still in the process of catching up. I'm fairly close to done at this point, so I should be getting less useless soon.
"Oh but I can't be a PR right now so it's okay I'm still useless"
I understand your side but I find LB's side much more convincing. Sorry. You might get me on KA though.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:37 pm
by Garuda
In post 2904, KingdomAces wrote:Fine. It's still not going to accomplish anything though. VOTE: Seanald
Aside from that, while I'll be around to vote elsewhere if necessary, it's really looking like I just am not going to be able to sort either of Voided/Nero before the end of the day, Too many shiny things.
Around the end of deadline he's like "I can't lynch Seanald and I don't have time to sort the main wagon choices a all, but I'll vote wherever you'd like me too!", which is the definition of voting someone and hoping the lynch doesn't go through.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:41 pm
by Garuda
In post 3154, KingdomAces wrote:I sent all of my money to Pie last night, and if you need me to say it again on N2 I sent $140 to LB.
How is saying an argument looks like TvS without specifying which is which a scumtell? Pretty much whenever there is a massive argument, at least someone says that, if not multiple people.
I have nothing new in terms of reads. Since I'm apparently the only one who is at all suspicious of Garuda, re-examining that is going to be my first priority when I get the time.
And of course the read he chooses to evaluate is he one without shit for support, notepad of any wagons that are prevalent.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:43 pm
by Garuda
There's also a complete lack of reaction to the Seanald wagon that I don't like; he just goes "oh. It's going through. He's still scummy?" then spends all of today running like a chicken with its head cut off.
In post 3203, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:Oh, for fuck's sake. I don't think you actually do understand what the phrase "the straw the broke the camel's back" means. I'm not voting him for that alone. I have provided other reasons why I am voting him, which you sem to be ignoring.
You're saying that was the final straw. I'm saying that it's too damn light to BE the final straw, and/or that it isn't anything close to a final straw but you're making it out to be like it is for you when it's really not.
I am very much aware of your other reasons. My problem is with what you decided to use to say "Okay, that's it, Pie needs to die" because it's not something that's worth such a declaration. And I don't think you've answered me as to why it's
scummy
bad and not
bad
bad because I've already said I highly agree it's the latter.
Think about what the fuck you're arguing. Do you know how much a piece of straw weighs?
Also, I disagree that it's a very minor thing and dislike that you're trying to make me say it is.
In post 3166, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:I don't recall you answering this before now, and I looked through your iso. You quoted me asking it and gave a non-comital answer - "I don't remember. It's not relevant."
well yeah how the hell should I remember exactly what post in your ISO it was? after you asked me again I decided I'd humor you and find the post again.
If you think something's interesting enough to note in the first place, you should remember it. I asked you for clarification very early on while it would have still been fresh in your memory and you refused to give me an actual answer until I'd repeated the question twice and voted for you.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:54 pm
by Garuda
In post 3381, Lost Butterfly wrote:By the way, my last incoherent, poorly edited wall was up-to-date as of 3356, you dirty spammers.
In post 3368, Garuda wrote:What's wrong with the post you quoted? The frustration voiced is probably more alignment neutral than anything else, and I don't remember how the voided hammer went down but I'm pretty sure pro hawk didn't want to hammer hermy because he didn't think hermy was scum.
1) The whining about Harakiri being "antitown" and getting away with it set off alarms. Aside from Nati's self-vote and Sakura's Nacho sheeping not even being THAT "antitown", it's something I associate more with scum annoyed that this concrete "scummy" thing can't be used against someone.
2) It's a lazy, shallow, silly reason to vote Voided (who's also a pretty convenient target in this game). I mean, really, Voided offered to hammer, but then essentially went, "Everyone suspects me, so maybe someone whose opinion they value should unilaterally decide whether to end the day." That's null at worst, town at best. And no one loses town cred by hammering a townie at deadline, so ProHawk's point is absurd.
3) I know it's not identical, and didn't mean to imply by my question that I found the post terrible for that reason. But I want to hear what
ProHawk
says, even though the connection isn't that obvious.
I DID like his thoughts on the investigative immune catch and the line about "I'm not as sure now of what I saw, but I still think you're scum" back on D1, but I'd got the impression he didn't initially provide an explanation on his change in read. It just felt like it happened without much fanfare. It's the same problem I have with baldeagle, for the record (that their suspicions of our slot aligned with the group's opinions). Also, I'd been scumhunting even before I came forward with the gambit, as well as during the time he was still calling me scum, so I'm confused by what changed.
I guess I'm confused by how vigorously you're defending ProHawk. It seems earnest and well-intentioned on your end, and I know you're more someone who works on PoE and town reads (I am too to an extent). But I'm not as willing as you are to give him the benefit of the doubt on some things. Maybe it's because I've never seen him play, so I have no clue if his stances always look "rigid" ir he's prone to weird reads.
It's ridiculous, yes. But the conviction and constant mentioning of it goes past "scum annoyed he can't get his mislynch foreasy mislynches". It goes far past that, in fact.
You can find a lot of hawkie is being absurd points, it's true. But considering the walls and walls and arguing between them, I think he could have found a better excuse to be on voided's wagon if he wanted.
Ok
I've mislynched him 2/4 games, With decent suspicion on him as a backup candidate on one of them, and him being a n1 kill in another. His contributions are sometimes insightful, he generally has decent if not good reads, but his play style is curmudgeonly and tends to isolate himself from other players in a way that gets him mislynched a lot. He feels very close to his past games as well as town in his own right, so I would rather he not get mislynched this game.
In post 3168, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:If you were just moving on, why did you bring it up three times?
moving on as in I never tried to pursue any scumread I had on any of them. go try to find one post I made where I legitimately pushed either Nero or Mhork. good luck ~
In post 3169, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:Not really. Why, other than to make Mhork look bad, did you say you didn't believe that he had contacted Pyro after he had been confirmed through morph?
I didn't actually say that
In post 2347, pieguyn wrote:okay so Mhork medium'ed Pyro and people are asking questions to Pyro to confirm this? and then Pyro is all pissed off thinking it's "cheating"?
I really have no idea why the hell Pyro would have this kind of reaction. smth like this can only help town, and Pyro is flipped town, so I don't get this at all. this screams like a gambit to get towncred for Mhork. I seriously can't think of any logical reason Pyro would be mad for that reason. someone plz tell me if I'm wrong cause I might have missed something
I was just about to join you on KingdomAces
pieguy, obviously
I didn't like Espeonage's distancing from the Seanald lynch, although I did like his paranoia about morph, because I was feeling the same.
Ghostly Penguin confuses me - it's been a while since I played with p_a (never played with Ghostlin), but she's never been this absent before
Also I am actually a bit conflicted about Voided. He does so so much scummy shit I'm assuming it's his playstyle. Last I spoke to Quilford, we both agreed on Voided-scum, but I haven't spoken to him properly for about a week now
I still don't trust you completely, but I trust PV's judgement of you.
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:27 pm
by uʍop ǝpısdn
VOTE: KingdomAces
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:14 am
by Harakiri
Urk.
VOTE: KingdomAces
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:28 am
by BBmolla
In post 3414, uʍop ǝpısdn wrote:molla, I like you, I like your reads. What do you think of pieguy?
I haven't looked at him, everyone said he was town so I didn't bother
Guys, we should be voting Voided. Voided is just disregarding me for a stupid player whenever I try to attack him, so he's discrediting me. Also, Voided was pissed that I froze a vote on him, LOL.
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:10 am
by Espeonage
Unvote, Vote: UD
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:32 am
by ProHawk
In post 3365, Lost Butterfly wrote:By the way, ProHawk, how is what Voided did different from your reactions to the D1 Hermy lynch?
In post 3047, Voidedmafia wrote:Again, I can use EV to hammer Seanald right now (or just to use it up, either/or).
Do tell. What similarities do you see here?
In post 3381, Lost Butterfly wrote:2) It's a lazy, shallow, silly reason to vote Voided (who's also a pretty convenient target in this game). I mean, really, Voided offered to hammer, but then essentially went, "Everyone suspects me, so maybe someone whose opinion they value should unilaterally decide whether to end the day." That's null at worst, town at best. And no one loses town cred by hammering a townie at deadline, so ProHawk's point is absurd.
WHAT? What is this? I don't even... Scum don't like to hammer town because it A) puts them in the lime-light. B) especially puts them in the lime-light when they use an ability to squash town C) it puts them on a town wagon which will inevitably be scrutinized toward end-game. This is literally scum-101. The part you aren't even considering is he was talking about hammering (but not doing so, nor voting which wouldn't have been the hammer) before the deadline and didn't say anything about wanting someone not as scummy to hammer UNTIL I PRESSURED HIM. Your point is absurd, and you comparing my not wanting to lynch Hermy and Voideds hammer is par for the course.
I realize you jumped ship Nati, but lemme get this straight...
I am scum for a change in playstyle/tonality, and this make me scum how again? What exactly makes a player with a good-scum-game?
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:03 am
by KingdomAces
Spoiler: Garuda Quote Strips
In post 3389, Garuda wrote:I don't really like that he needed prodding to confirm the ivest immunity and hitman, considering the earlier pages. I was hoping we could see if we could confirm it without confirming being the obviously right thing to do, but you can't have it all.
I knew he already claimed it, and there didn't seem to be anyone who doubted Zd had them. Confirming it would have been pointless.
What do you think of our extended case on Klick? Hermy lynch ended up being a deadline lynch, which is clear from context. I'm also surprised you don't comment at all on the pepper lynch here...?
Wait, Dr. Pepper was lynched by the end of D1? Aside from that, what extended case? The one where you compared his first post to Seanald's the first time you mention it, and then never add anything else aside from "this sounds fake", even though it really didn't, for the rest of the day? Looking past D1, the rest of your points against him are that his logic is terrible, which while it would be nice if only scum had terrible logic, that's not the way things are. And you were the second vote on Hermy, so you can't say that it was because it was a deadline lynch.
Went over already. When I first read that I was pretty much just skimming, and everything in that post was logical and not scummy, which was a vast departure from the rest of that slot's posts. After the first few times I was asked this question, I actually went back and reread that post to look for evidence of alignment, and found nothing.
In post 3392, Garuda wrote:We did comment on our different reads on most of the lurkers.
Ctrl+F on your ISO says otherwise. Burden of proof is on you here.
Wait, I can't spell. Still no Guille though. More specific response to this in the post where you're more specific. Also, what was your read on Zd at the time?
It doesn't. I don't always have to be 100% serious.
In post 3396, Garuda wrote:
Why doesn't it make our comments on doctor pepper any less suspicious when it shreds the reason you suspected it in the first place? We were conflicted on klick by the end because of replace out shenanigans, banakai had advertisements + some good sounding town points, guille was clearly not going to post so that wasn't scummy. Doctor pepper posted before deadline. He saw deadline was activated. He left without paying any sort of attention or making any effort in letting town get a lynch, didn't engage at panic mode at all. We talked about this and more, but that was the smoking gun. Why did you ignore it?
Klick wasn't an inactive at that point, you didn't say any of that about Banakai back then, noting that I had only read up to page 60. The only post was just saying that you thought he was null, for what I saw as having a really similar post to DP's. You still never mentioned Guille once. I didn't address your "smoking gun" because RL>Mafia no matter how close the deadline is. DP specifically said something was happening in RL for him, so unless you have proof that he's lying, then that's not good enough. Further about Banakai, when you did finally post something meaningful about him, it was just echoing what LB was saying and you wouldn't have mentioned him at all if LB didn't bring him up. My reasons for suspecting those comments have barely even been damaged, much less shredded.
In post 3397, Garuda wrote:Called out for to having a real reason to call Quilford town, moves the slot to null-scum (despite saying before that Quilford was the only reason he wasn't confident the slot was scum). Keeps bringing up that his complete lack of engagement is a null tell, which isn't true at all.
Null+Scum=Null-Scum. Where's the problem? Also, how is lack of engagement scummy at all? Once again, it would be nice if it was, but it's not.
Around the end of deadline he's like "I can't lynch Seanald and I don't have time to sort the main wagon choices a all, but I'll vote wherever you'd like me too!", which is the definition of voting someone and hoping the lynch doesn't go through.[/quote]He flipped town, so why would I not want the lynch to go through as scum? Aside from that, see the last point of the previous quote.
In post 3406, Garuda wrote:
And of course the read he chooses to evaluate is he one without shit for support, notepad of any wagons that are prevalent.
As much as being a lone wolf can make someone look town, it's not helpful at all. I specifically wanted to review my read of you because if my review turned up that my read on you was wrong and that everyone else was correct, I'd have another townread that I could actually trust. If it came up that I still thought you were scummy, then I could actually form a decent post that people actually would have to consider, and hopefully actually have it gain support. I had already tried several times to analyse Voided/Nero and failed, so I really didn't want to go right back into doing something that would cause me to continue being useless.
In post 3407, Garuda wrote:There's also a complete lack of reaction to the Seanald wagon that I don't like; he just goes "oh. It's going through. He's still scummy?" then spends all of today running like a chicken with its head cut off.
What should I have done. Unvoted even though I still thought he was scum, and was just going further to prove it?
tl;dr: Most of these points are completely ignoring something else that I said, or claiming that they said things that they didn't. I want to wait for a response before making a final decision on what this makes me think of his alignment though.
Muffin:
TownSeanald process of giving correct monetary information:
1. Look at the big bold thing in his QT/PM that says "Ending Balance"
ScumSeanald process of falsifying monetary information:
1. Look at the VT PM given in the first post.
2. Create a whole separate account for himself as if he had that PM.
3. Calculate exactly how much money he needed to use on confirmable actions so that he wouldn't get caught fakeclaiming.
4. Make sure that his balance added up for his fakeclaim without the mod being able to do all of the calculations for him.
All I knew is that he screwed up one of the two, and I thought that there was absolutely no way he could screw up the former.
About Espeon: Gut. Will elaborate further after I take a short break.
"Oh but I can't be a PR right now so it's okay I'm still useless"