With little discussion, one by one Servants turned on a shadowy presence. The targeted Servant sighed and looked at the group. "Even you, my love? You would risk death at my side?"
Caster drew herself up. "I still fear death. But love cannot be denied. Our fates at the Throne this time are linked."
Ruler focused on the Master. "Take me if you think you can." Their body expanded to dominate the area, enveloping the bystanders in mirages of palatial surroundings. Liquid silver flashed through the air, diving in the Master's direction.
The Master grimaced. "It seems we have the last evil Servant here. Well done, the rest of you. But it's time to end this." With a wave of a hand, the Master took control of the mercury and turned it back on Ruler in a whirlwind that grew to draw in Scheherazade as well. She wailed in fear but otherwise made no move to flee. Shi Huang Di's artificial body creaked and groaned under the onslaught, and finally with a growl of frustration, they faded in a haze of golden sparkles with Scheherazade. She looked just a touch smug before vanishing.
Ten golden cubes were left behind. Ten figures remained standing in front of the Throne of Heroes. Grail-kun dripped quietly while looking at the remaining friends. The air was clear of all traces of evil.
For now.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:52 am
by Cabd
Servant Ruler, as played by Prism, RCEnigma, and Aristophanes:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Ruler
True Name: Shi Huang Di, First Emperor, Qin Shi Huang, Ying Zheng, Zheng, the King of Qin, the Son of Heaven
Attribute: Man
Traits: Humanoid, King, Servant, Weak to Enuma Elish
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Mafia
Win Condition: Mafia makes up at least half of the remaining players, or nothing can prevent this.
Servant Caster, as played by Cephrir:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Caster
True Name: Scheherazade of the Nightless City
Attribute: Man
Traits: Female, Humanoid, Servant, Weak to Enuma Elish
Scheherazade, she who told 1001 stories, just to stay alive. A woman obsessed with life, and so fearful of death that nothing but the fear remains of her personality.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:53 am
by Cabd
A win condition has been achieved!
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:59 am
by Cabd
Living town players:
Dead town players:
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:06 am
by Cabd
Remaining role PMs:
Foreigner:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Foreigner
True Name: Katsushika Hokusai, or Rather Katsushika Oui
Attribute: Man
Traits: Divine, Female, Humanoid, Servant, Threat to Humanity, Weak to Enuma Elish
Hokusai. Or rather, Hokusai's daughter, Oui, as well as her father in the form of a very spirited octopus. An artist hailing from the Edo period of Japan, their artwork is known even to western audiences. Their most famous works as a father-daughter team are "Thirty-Six Views of Mount Fuji" and the woodblock print "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife"
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Alter Ego:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Alter Ego
True Name: Sitonai, Illyasviel von Einzbern, Freyja, Louhi
Attribute: Sky
Traits: Children Servants, Divine, Female, Humanoid, Illya, Pseudo-Servant, Servant, Weak to Enuma Elish
Sitonai, the manifestation of three Heroic Spirits in one little girl. Or rather, a little homunculus capable of becoming the Lesser Grail. Currently housing a village hero, a goddess, and a witch.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Quetzalcoatl ,goddess of Meso-America. Seen here inhabiting the body of one Lucha obsessed girl. She who truly loved humans in a way undeniable to all. The Aztec people foolishly believed the Spanish conquerors to be Quetzalcoatl's return, much to her chagrin.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Berserker:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Berserker
True Name: Atalanta, The Chaste Hunter
A what-if version of Atalanta who chose to embrace her darker side, and use the Pelt of the Calydonian Boar. The pelt constantly attempts to drive her mad, but Atalanta retains her sanity and composure due to sheer force of will. She can channel the rage she feels into raw destructive power, at the cost of being unable to hear out anyone she deems an enemy. Atalanta will be your ally or your enemy entirely based upon her own morals, and where you sit with them.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Attribute: Earth
Traits: Divine, Giant, Female, Servant, Super Large, Weak to Enuma Elish
BB (Summer) had good intentions. At some point. We swear! She was totally subverted by the goddess Pele. After all, she would never torment humans for her own amusement, or attempt to drive them utterly mad, or threaten them with complete annihilation. Must be a different BB we're thinking of.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Assassin:
Spoiler:
Servant Class: Assassin
True Name:Fūma Kotarō, the Evil Wind
Attribute: Man
Traits: Humanoid, Male, Servant, Weak to Enuma Elish
A ninja of the clan sharing his name. Kotaro was the 5th leader of this group. Very little is left in historical record about the exact methodology of the Fuma clan, but what is known is their use of quick mob tactics to overwhelm their opponents with sheer numbers. Kotaro was rumored to have the blood of an Oni running through his veins, but his personality was that often called too friendly to be a killer.
Skills:
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Tiamat, the ultimate scorned mother. She just wants what is best for humanity in her book, even if that means flooding the world with evil ooze to reset it in her own new image. Tiamat, who was betrayed by humaity despite her love, instead created the demonic beasts. Slain alongside her new children, Tiamat's body wa sused as the basis for the heavens and the earth. One of the seven human vices, the beast carrying the principle of "regression."
Skills:
Note: This Servant must use the skills in the order listed, cycling back to the beginning of the list after all three have been used. You may choose not to take an action during a phase, but this will not move the skill cycle forward.
Noble Phantasm:
Alignment: Town
Win Condition: All non-town aligned players have been removed from the game, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:06 am
by Cabd
So.... there's a * next to that Beast Role PM.
Why?
Because I fucked up and sent Beast the incorrect older version of their PM that would NOT block the night kill, but processed the game using the final version of their role, which DID block night kills.
I sincerely apologize for the confusion, and hope that players can forgive me for the mistake.
Beast's role PM as it appears above is the one that was used to process all night actions inside our Mod PT.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:06 am
by Cabd
Spoiler: Master Phase Thoughts
Right, so, Master phase.
Everyone obviously will have differing opinions about the optimal use or mis-use of this phase and ability.
Here's my take:
As town, you want to elect the most try hard charismatic townie. One that will get along with everyone, use their power responsibly, and keep the game on track while alive. Honestly, I don't think town could have done any better than Assassin for that role in this game. Speaking more broadly, the master vote hitting mafia isn't all that big of a deal if you're targeting the most charismatic... Yes, mafia gets their big bad upgrades, but you just took out the mafia most likely to be able to influence the game state the most, and confined them to the mafia PT instead. Now you have a flip AND know that the mafia silver tonged baddie is out of the picture.
As mafia, I see two valid approaches. One is to try and elect one of your own and bank on the powerups, and playing 10-3 with uber-charged roles. That one is good if you think your mafia team is all of equal skill, or you have three powerful players and one weaker player that you feel can be successfully "obvtowned" enough for a masterization.
The other approach, and the one that I would have taken with a mafia PM this game, is to drive the master onto somebody from the town who is unlikely to properly use the newfound status. Take a player who is good at appearing town but is lurky, or lazy, or divisive. Argue HARD that you're worried about mafia getting the role so you'd rather the obvtown lurksack, over the charismatic person who could be really good mafia. In this game, I would have been trying to drive the master powers HARD onto Foreigner, Berserker, or Caster.
Foreigner was fairly lurk-happy when things started slowing down, and would likely drive their now confirmed-town agenda into an argument with berseker, creating a bunch of noise and apathy. Berserker would have been the other side of that coin, likely pushing hard to remove foreigner. Caster, on the other hand, was fairly snarky and at least from outside appearances, would not have been likely to do nearly the level of cohesion and sorting that Assassin did this game.
The problem for mafia this game is that they chose... none of these. They didn't even discuss their options, or have a plan. They just kind of went at it on their own, which allowed town to find town QUICKLY, leaving them out in the cold.
With their 4 votes, they could have swung things HARD towards foreigner or berserker, or even caster, MUCH earlier in the master drive phase.
Spoiler: Main Gameplay Thoughts
So.... a complete and utter town stomp. The MVP of this game simply has to be petapan. As assassin, he not only flushed out multiple members of the scum team, he got to work instead of checking out, and kept town together, instead of letting it drift into a paranoid mess of melted ice cream.
Town identified each other, used Assassin as the central authority, and steamrolled. Most of the scum had been POE'd before day one was even over.
After that, it was a matter of cleanup.
I'll let players handle the bulk of postgame discussion, as I was the one with the eagle-eyed view... But yeah. Woo finally a Cabd theme that isn't a complete mafia stompfest?
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:35 am
by penguin_alien
Spoilered since I'm assuming not everyone cares about my thoughts:
Spoiler: PA post-game thoughts:
Overall I suspect because this was in the Large Theme Queue people tended to think of it as a large theme, despite the fact that based on player number going into Night One it's guaranteed to be just like a Mini Theme, barring town no-burning or something foolish like that. So using powers and such should probably be done assuming the game won't get past about Day Five. (this applies to the game design as well, in that NP charges should probably have built up each phase, not just each day phase, to allow five-charge NPs to be practically used) Powers probably should have been scaled back in terms of shot number as well, with most everything being one-shots.
Master phase: I don't think that Mafia effectively ceding the Master was a bad strategy per se, but my sense from reading the PT and the posts was that it wasn't a deliberate choice as much as what ended up just happening. From a game-design perspective, if this general idea got run again, I'm wondering if the Mafia would need a higher incentive to obtain the Master benefits. Feedback welcome.
Town really connected quickly, at least in the top half of reads. I don't know how much Mafia could have interfered here given posting activity. Anon games leave a lot less room for stirring up animosities due to starting with clean slates.
I mentioned it in the spectator PT, but Ruler's reaction to Caster in the Lovers thread is so far off-base I'd be outting that shit in the game thread pronto. No townie gets excited about having their death tied to another player's of unknown alignment. It comes off as a hamfisted attempt to pocket Caster, which since Ruler is scum, he should know more about what's likely going on and proceed accordingly.
I'm not sure what the Mafia were going for Day Two. Saber is getting drawn into fights about Caster. Even if she doesn't know there's zero chance Assassin and Avenger support that wagon, right now I'm not sure they'd be set up to capitalize on the Ruler flip from the Caster burning.
After Day Two, I'm not sure much could have saved the Mafia team, given how things had played out. Blocking Assassin would have stopped Lancer's being the surefire elimination, but since Ruler was doomed after Caster's Loverize, I don't know what path to 3p endgame gives Lancer the win. As it turned out, Foreigner became more frameable as the game went on, but the list of misburns was short.
Spoiler: End of game thoughts on the Masterization mechanic/psychology behind choices:
So two parts: how it was set up and how it might be modified in the future. Much of this is pulled from my thoughts in the Spectator Thread, so bear with me in my repetition.
The set-up: First off, the number of people who didn't read and understand the mechanic was...interesting. I'm not sure if folks didn't read or if it was unclear. At any rate, the game premise means two things are true from the get-go: the initial goal is to town-hunt for a Master, and the anonymous nature means conflict is more slow-burning 90% of the time. No pre-existing grudges on the table, no preconceived notions. Players on this site (and in Werewolf overall, really) are primed to find scum upon game start. That's an acrimonious process that upsets the accused and makes folks nervous. Much better environment for Mafia to wade around in versus looking for who's mega-towny. Cabd has other thoughts on how a player list would optimally approach the Master phase, which I'll let him elaborate on, as it's more charisma-based, and that's his wheelhouse versus my logic-driven approaches.
The place where I personally feel the Mafia team really fell down here was a lack of planning and strategizing. They didn't have to be cohesive in the game thread, but there was very little discussion in the PT about whether they wanted to go for a Master upgrade or who would benefit them by getting it on the town side before the game started. Their overall approach to the Master phase, low-posting (which I get as a busy person IRL myself) and low-interest, left them out in the cold in many ways before the first burning votes even started. I realize that night actions went badly for the scum team as well, but a lot of that was a result of the suspicion they'd garnered during the first day phase. Some of it was their own night action choices (not neutralizing the town IC Night Two if not able to go for the kill with both strongman options off the table) but a world where Lancer didn't get investigated and Ruler didn't get Loverized looks very different for Day Three.
Assassin getting the IC designation really fucked the Mafia, as it turns out. Props to petapan: he didn't let it go to his head, he didn't disengage, and he read the game with a seemingly open mind. And they had no plan to deal with it, although Lancer giving him charges wasn't the worst idea. Even here though, feeding his own team given how far behind they were might have been better; YMMV.
Future thoughts on modifying this set-up: I think Mafia might need stronger incentives to go directly for the Master ability. Even though 10:3 with a strong scum team is a scum-sided Mini Game set-up, the allure of four living Mafia is strong. Better power-ups perhaps?
I'm also not sure if changing how the Masterization phase works would alter things (or even if it should). Private voting might allow Mafia to push for their ideal candidate even if it isn't one of them. Delaying Masterization until after the first Day One elimination might work too--make it a thing where a second elim only happens Day One with a town Master. It gives folks more data on where a Master might be useful, but it also increases the likelihood of a divided town.
During the review process this game felt potentially very scum-sided. I know I didn't account for how the anonymous nature and focus on town-hunting versus scum-hunting would change the lay of the land. Any future iterations probably wouldn't have the ability to grant Masterization to other players. The IC designation is clearly strong enough when used correctly.
Elsewhere, mod things I think we'd change with a time machine. We probably should have modified the town sample role PM to include the granting of two more Masters. It made a lot of sense to me, as if scum have the chance for three Master upgrades, so should town, but we erred on the side of not modifying opening post info after the fact, and it did influence the first day phase. For a more detailed breakdown of how it impacted the game from my perspective, see this Spectator Thread post here for my thoughts. We also erred on the side of having our provided safe claims to Mafia mirror their actual role PMs as closely as possible to reduce the odds of them getting called out for conflicting info, but that made several of them look quite scummy. You can judge for yourselves how in line that was with the fact that several town roles were scummy as hell also. I have a couple other thoughts on how the fake claims were used in some cases, but it factors in enough omniscience that I'm not comfortable ragging on anyone here.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:37 am
by Cabd
Players- I will be releasing all Private Topics 24 hours from now. If you have any redactions you wish to make, please contact me before then via PM.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:42 am
by penguin_alien
Game Actions:
Day 1:
Night 1:
Day 2:
Night 2:
Day 3:
Night 3:
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:43 am
by Cabd
Post-game posting opened. Keep it civil, folks.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:44 am
by Servant Beast
Bow before your queen! I blocked two kills!
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:45 am
by Servant Alter Ego
Whooo! I finally won a Cabd theme game!
Great game! Thanks for the awesome design we got to explore!
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:47 am
by midwaybear
GG everyone
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:49 am
by Servant Beast
Many thanks to the Mods for the game! This was a very fun experience for me jumping back into this after 3 years! I loved being Tiamat and loved the complex mechanics
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:52 am
by Bell
GG I had a lot of fun!
If you have any advice on how I could have played better lmk!
No redactions
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:54 am
by midwaybear
Yeah, big thanks to the mods. This setup was definitely one of the coolest I played in, and it had a lot of unexplored mechanics too.
No redactions too
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:58 am
by Servant Alter Ego
Petapan, you were an amazing IC. 10-10 would play with you again. I just hope you aren't as formidable a scum player as you were as town in this game.
Chara, you did a great job of rehabilitating after Day 1. Without the PT cop guilty, I would have been reluctant to vote you until later in the game.
Thank you Syr, my in-thread mason and neighbor for helping me not go into many, many more paranoid tailspins!
Bell! Did you guess my identity? If so, what made you think I was scum? If not, would you have scumread me knowing this was fferyllt?
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:01 am
by Lucky2u
No redactions for me! Good to see some familiar faces in the game.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:05 am
by Bell
Petapan is a formidable scum player from old meta.
I guessed it in the dead thread but only with mod list narrowing.
I never had you as lower than null-to lean town. I poke my null-lean town reads if I have the time. I was mostly spending the last day trying to figure out if you were neighbors, masons or if rider had protected me N1 and whether you knew that.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:06 am
by Servant Foreigner
3410 is missing some of my actions
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:07 am
by Bell
Lucky2U role played a lady Tiamat. *claps*
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:10 am
by Lucky2u
I am not familiar with the FGO lore but I know DND strongly and Tiamat is the royal queen of evil dragons so I played up the royal bit in my crumbs and that night post I made. I would hope some people probably caught all that.
Also that night post was totally a faint for me not being able to do anything that night.
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:10 am
by Servant Foreigner
In post 3407, Cabd wrote:Foreigner was fairly lurk-happy when things started slowing down, and would likely drive their now confirmed-town agenda into an argument with berseker, creating a bunch of noise and apathy.