Tbh it could have been the work of SPB, the role would sync fairly wel with the bookie and gov.
Actually when you look at it that way the bookie dying d1 probably fucked the game balance in town favor.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:16 pm
by DrippingGoofball
Explain?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:45 pm
by Magua
Iecerint wrote:Scum can usually action + NK if they're the last one left, so I don't think the presence of dicktexts makes Zoidberg town -- it just confirms that his action is to send dicktexts (which we knew anyway). (Also, that was vollkan, not me.)
The thing is, that defeats the entire point of a Fruit Vendor (the point of the PR being that you have a verifiable Night action). See also: Author Mafia, where the Mafia Fruit Vendor was not allowed to NK and give fruit in the same Night, even though the other Mafia were allowed.
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Vote shenanigans are *highly* likely to either be SPB, or to be DeasVail (who had died that same Night). The only thing that detracts from this theory is that I'm pretty certain that the post restriction thing was also Dreaming God work.
OTOH, vollkan could've just been completely lying about that, since it was never tested.
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Back to Zoidberg, the "why" I don't think Zoidberg is mafia from the D1 votes is how long the votes are kept on and how the case is pushed.
Ythan spends most of D1 voting Zoidberg. He does jump onto Wyrd (bus), but it's for four vote counts and then he's back onto Zoidberg. But there's no reasoning given for jumping off of Wyrd, and jumping back onto Zoidberg is done off-hand. It makes the Ythan/Wyrd interaction read as distancing and the Ythan/Zoidberg interaction a place for Ythan to dump his vote and forget it.
ThunderHog spends most of the Day on Zoidberg, and jumps onto Wyrd (bus) only after he (Thunderhog) becomes the leading wagon, and he jumps onto Wyrd for a completely throwaway reason (Wyrd says vollkan isn't bussing Thunderhog). Thunderhog is going down and wants to distance a partner, jumps onto Wyrd. No need to do that if Zoidberg is also scum with Thunderhog, since SPB is already distancing Wyrd, Thunderhog can distance Zoidberg and that can be played for towncred. But nope.
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I have a pretty PoE pool to lynch from: vollkan, Iecerint, and dramonic. Of those, I feel that vollkan is really the best bet for Mafia. Like, super really.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:12 pm
by dramonic
why not trollie?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:08 pm
by vollkan
should be getting new computr tomorrow (delvery delayed)
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:55 am
by DrippingGoofball
↑Magua wrote:Vote shenanigans are *highly* likely to either be SPB
You think that he lowered the lynch threshold as many of us were ready to lynch him over DW?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:58 am
by Iecerint
↑Magua wrote:Vote shenanigans are *highly* likely to either be SPB, or to be
DeasVail
(who had died that same Night).
Huh?
The Fruit Vendor still has a function in that it clears Zoidberg of any other mafia night-functions (e.g., he couldn't have been the roleblocker). But it's irrelevant if there's a strong precedent for Fruit Vendor getting special treatment. I'll check out the Author mafia game you mention.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:05 am
by DrippingGoofball
Fruit vendor is not cleared, especially since one of his targets was the COP on night 4, what's up with that???
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 am
by Iecerint
Magua, AFAICT, Author Mafia doesn't treat the Fruit Vendor role in a special way -- rather, that game prevents scum from using their ability + kill at all times, regardless of the scum ability. It has nothing to do with the ability being a Fruit Vendor. (I'm just basing it on reading the role PMs, though, so correct me if I'm mistaken.)
If anything, the existence of that game makes Mafia Fruit Vendor somewhat more likely IMO because Reck was apparently one of the alts in that game (EDIT: though it looks like Reck was town and the mafia FV didn't flip until January 2013, so that moderates that some).
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:33 am
by Magua
↑DrippingGoofball wrote:You think that he lowered the lynch threshold as many of us were ready to lynch him over DW?
A Dreaming God has little-to-no control over what they do. SPB was, at least at some point, a Dreaming God from flip. DV was always a Dreaming God. As a Dreaming God, they don't get to say, "Whelp, I'd like to lower the lynch threshold," they just pick from a list of (mostly meaningless) names -- DV's was a list of song titles, for instance, and then the effect goes.
↑Iecerint wrote:
The Fruit Vendor still has a function in that it clears Zoidberg of any other mafia night-functions (e.g., he couldn't have been the roleblocker). But it's irrelevant if there's a strong precedent for Fruit Vendor getting special treatment. I'll check out the Author mafia game you mention.
From Author (postgame; Kuribo was the Mafia Fruit Vendor in question):
↑Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:According to UT's comments in the Mafia A QT, they could do both if they were the last one left.
Except as Fruit Vendor, since as UT told me, the whole point of fruit vendor is to be able to say "I couldn't possibly have made the kill because I sent fruit." And indeed, my role PM makes no mention of being able to action and kill as last scum standing. When I asked UT about this, I was told that for balance reasons, no, the fruit vendor could not kill and action. I tend to agree with this decision, we just had a run of bad luck and awesome town play.
Though really, I don't actually give much of a fuck. I don't think Zoidberg is Mafia even without taking his role into account at this point, and I really, really, really, really think that vollkan is, so.
One of SPB's powers could've joined him to the scumteam. But, seriously, with a Dreaming God (much less two), "Explain how this effect happened" is pointless and inconclusive -- it just generates noise without signal. The real crux is that no one has claimed doing it, and no one has claimed having it done to them, so chances of it being a 1-shot thing, regardless of source, are incredibly high. Or that vollkan is lying.