Mafiascum.net

In post 3450, CarbonFiber wrote:Pretty much every time I see Bork post, my paranoia goes away somewhat. But I think Nacho has evolved beyond robotic during NY169. The flashwagon on Sakura and the dismantling of it, etc.

Ffery, do you have any actual scumreads at this point? One thing I wanted to ask about your reads-list is that I am not really sure what you were trying to convey. It seems like you have townreads on everyone.

In post 3452, CarbonFiber wrote:The timing of when he showed up basically.

In post 3450, CarbonFiber wrote:Pretty much every time I see Bork post, my paranoia goes away somewhat. But I think Nacho has evolved beyond robotic during NY169. The flashwagon on Sakura and the dismantling of it, etc.

Ffery, do you have any actual scumreads at this point? One thing I wanted to ask about your reads-list is that I am not really sure what you were trying to convey. It seems like you have townreads on everyone.

In post 3455, Clyton wrote:Some quick thoughtful notes:

I think for me, and perhaps some others, we have still yet to fully explore the possibilities of a Cabd game. Aside from the possibility that CF has mentioned (town janitor/scum self-janitor), I noticed that LB has turned up as Kreed, an antagonist on the town side. So not only are roles truly indicative of an alignment, but neither do their characters.

In post 3240, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 3232, Clyton wrote:I see. A desperation attempt on me when the deadline is drawing near? I am sorely disappointed.

this kinda strikes me as an off reaction somehow. Like it's a crack in the emotionless facade.

In post 3241, Clyton wrote:Oh I'm not hiding it. This is a crack. In these kind of situations, I readjust my approach. I mean, what am I to do against full of people acting on emotion? Logic will not help here unless they regain their senses.

In post 3242, Clyton wrote:I feel Cabd made the roles to augment another person's similar roles. I forgot who it was, but your rolecop ability and another person's rolecop ability augmented each other. I think these are intentional. The problem is, it is not truly indicative of alignment, so like you said, it would be both town roles or a town role + scum role.

In post 3271, Clyton wrote:Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

In post 3279, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:i think i'll be putting up PV or LB up, alongside fery

we'll be doing either a lurker lynch or a no lynch

In post 3449, Just Sheep Us wrote:Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

In post 3449, Just Sheep Us wrote:Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

In post 3286, Clyton wrote:I still think RBD is town because of the frustration they showed and the hope they gave up on this game, something that I have saw in past games I played in. Never once did I see a scum turned out from such a scenario.

But then, everything went downhill after she acknowledged that she was acting based on emotions just recently.

The reason I wanted orcinus to gladiate me and Mastin is because if it is 1v1, I can purely focus on her and drown out the noise around me (people can't even talk anyways, so that's good). Then I can finally lay out my case.

In post 3288, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:JOBS MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU HAVE THEM?

In post 3293, Clyton wrote:5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone).

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

In post 3297, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 2836, Clyton wrote:I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

Clyton, where did this trust come from?

In post 3298, Clyton wrote:That is fine. If you are town, then my advice is that you continue to suspect me due to the fact that I cannot be understood from your perspective. Use the foundation you have built (your trust on CF for instance, and extending to that, his read on me). In this case, do not think from your perspective, but other people perspectives (but mines, because you are not able to understand my perspective).

In post 3462, CupcakePanda wrote:

In post 3449, Just Sheep Us wrote:Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.

I totally have you down as scum don't worry. <3

In post 3301, Clyton wrote:This trust came from the fact that we were in similar situations. You were in a dilemma like I was. RBD was town, but I would rather sacrifice him for the sake of avoiding a no lynch. But I didn't find PV (where he was the alternative wagon) to be scummy based on my scum/town/nullread on him (or lack thereof). I was asking you for alternatives.

In post 3302, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:Look at any fucking game I've played with Mastin, ever. I figure out Mastin's alignment within a few posts every time. You know this, you've seen it, in the same games BRO was in. AoT? Took me a small number of posts to figure out Mastin was scum and I stuck to that vote for the entire three days it took to lynch her. Too Many Heads? I had her figured out within the first couple posts after she replaced in and stuck with that read for the rest of the game. In games you haven't been in, it's the same deal. The most recent Xeno game? I had Mastin figured out from her opening posts and "buddied" her the rest of the game because of it. Mastin is someone I have an amazingly easy time reading, I do not think I'm shooting in the dark with this, and I do think she is town here.

What's worse is you have a heavy meta player (F16) who really has no excuse not to know this about me/mastin if he's read ANY games me/mastin have played together. And he thinks DespBro has a point here. And he thinks we're both scum with AP because.... ??????????????????????? Scum theatre? ??????????? ??????????????

If my posts seem like they're injected with vitriol here, it's because I loathe that sort of playstyle. It's why (prior to the miller counter-claim) I told Nati I'm no longer playing the game - I cannot deal with players who play like that. It's fucking enraging because not only are they playing like that, they have the sheer fucking arrogance of thinking they're right about something I know to be 100% wrong. Like I generally have confidence in my reads, but at no point do I ever say something like F16 said recently ("I've figured out the game earlier than others"). Holy fucking shit that post. I could honestly not believe how fucking arrogant someone so fucking wrong could be.

In post 3309, CarbonFiber wrote:That's a rather absurd simplification of what I said. I said I found all three of you, Mastin, and AP scummy and I wouldn't discount you being in a team. If you are scum, you can continue lying about it but if you are town, realize that you misinterpreted what I am saying.

In post 3309, CarbonFiber wrote:Tammy knows this from Anything Goes where she was scum with Mastin and [masting] identified who she was going to mislynch. It didn't matter to Mastin that Angry Frat BROS pegged the entire scumteam because the rest of the town weren't going to listen to them.

In post 3329, CarbonFiber wrote:Also, the "ignore Muffin" advice was good so I am going to do that from now.

In post 3460, MastinSSK wrote:Easily could have voted Clyton, btw.

In post 3240, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 3232, Clyton wrote:I see. A desperation attempt on me when the deadline is drawing near? I am sorely disappointed.

this kinda strikes me as an off reaction somehow. Like it's a crack in the emotionless facade.

One of the reasons Clyton evolved into a proper scumread.

In post 3241, Clyton wrote:Oh I'm not hiding it. This is a crack. In these kind of situations, I readjust my approach. I mean, what am I to do against full of people acting on emotion? Logic will not help here unless they regain their senses.

This also doesn't feel right. It feels like he's being called out on having slipped out, and is now working damage control.

If I were to remain logical in such a moment, I could've easily ignored BWS' statement and dismissed it as one of his regular commentaries. Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1. I had nothing to gain as scum for stating such thing. Now, are you trying to grasp at straws by using these kind of pitiful reasons?

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved. If that post hadn't happened, then this case of yours wouldn't happen. Now tell me what am I to gain as scum?

In post 3242, Clyton wrote:I feel Cabd made the roles to augment another person's similar roles. I forgot who it was, but your rolecop ability and another person's rolecop ability augmented each other. I think these are intentional. The problem is, it is not truly indicative of alignment, so like you said, it would be both town roles or a town role + scum role.

This also doesn't feel like an attempt to figure things out and analyze the roles.

His orcinus defense also didn't make much sense. All the while, he wasn't panicking, though.

You did not get the memo that I am also trying to make sense of how Cabd works his game and if that has an affect on my outlook of my reads or not.

For example, I did mentioned if roles had an impact on the alignment of a person (which is proven to be debunked). Think from Cabd's position, was it his purpose to put half a rolecop's ability with one person and the other half with the other person and make them both town? Was it his intention for them to work together in order to effectively use the rolecop ability? I'm not sure how this defense (rather a scenario) does not make sense.

I need more solid proof from you and your accusations against me rather than "this doesn't feel."

In post 3271, Clyton wrote:Holy shit with all this emotional clusterfuck going around, I'm just gonna stop and give this game a rest until the next day. I applaud the people who are still sane and going through this according to their win condition.

Vote: orcinus_theoriginal

Orcinus, I don't know if your claim is true or not. I do not even know if it is town-aligned or not. But your intentions were made clear that regardless of who is lynched, you will intervene. Now, I have a request. Choose me as one of the participants, and preferably Mastin as the other. I will personally deal with her and expose her for the emotional rift-raft she is and outline every inconsistency and scumtells I picked up from the previous 30 pages from her (and the entire game anyways) while outlining my personal defense (something I already explained in some of the posts, not sure how some of them miss that but if they are truly town, they avoided it and went on the basis of an inherent scum action).

And here, he suddenly shows a burst of emotion, and basically does something that isn't logical at all. Defending orc, but then voting him like this, with no (gaaaah) trajectory. The read on me comes out of nowhere, too. Clyton's read on me seems highly, well, desperate, defensive, and quite frankly, omgusy. Because there's nothing that hints this direction at all. The read is essentially one that is highly convenient (given the scumreads on me) and valuable to him (given the lack of stronger scumreads on him).

Based on my prior point, it is not an actual defense of orc, but rather an attempt to analyze the situation at hand. I do hope you are familiar with speculating and deducing one's alignment from information outside of that person. In this case, I was analyzing Cabd's game set-up and see if this has an effect on whether orc being town or not.

My offensive case against you will come later after my set of defensive rebuttals. Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

In post 3279, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:i think i'll be putting up PV or LB up, alongside fery

we'll be doing either a lurker lynch or a no lynch

This is also something that looks bad from orc.

In post 3356, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:like actually when has POE ever worked on anyone ever

In post 3406, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:My strongest townreads, in no particular order* are {Fox/Hound, CF, RBD, Titan, borkcho}

In post 3433, Yulia Jue wrote:

Rancid Broderick Drake, ???, was Killed Night 1

Mac, who was Ricardo Soldato, Town Paranoid Bodyguard*, was Killed Night 1

*A Paranoid Bodyguard also acts as a modified rolestop

In post 3434, Just Sheep Us wrote:VOTE: mastinSSK

In post 3443, CarbonFiber wrote:There is no way scum killed RBD even if he is town considering their play D1.

In post 3444, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Beli and I talked about it during the cage match and overnight. We both think that scum-orci, if he had to use the gladiate to avoid lynch, probably would have set it up differently than spending a lurker who might be a viable mislynch later in the game.

In post 3463, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 3286, Clyton wrote:I still think RBD is town because of the frustration they showed and the hope they gave up on this game, something that I have saw in past games I played in. Never once did I see a scum turned out from such a scenario.

And yet my nearly-identical behavior which came before theirs was ignored, not to mention, you'd be ignoring their read on me.

I cannot assume the credibility of anyone's reads, and I ask that others would do the same with mines. Did I not mention before early on this game that no one is confirmed a particular alignment unless they are dead and their alignment is revealed by the mod?

Meanwhile, for your behaviour, I did not genuinely see such nearly-identical behaviour. Maybe it is not identical enough, or I missed it. I ask you refer to me such posts that indicates such behaviour.

But then, everything went downhill after she acknowledged that she was acting based on emotions just recently.

Admitting to emotions from Rancid was a towntell for you, yet you're using it as a scumtell on me.

Refer to my previous point. Refer to the post cause I probably have missed it or skipped it during that past period because it wasn't as apparent to me. The only signs of emotions I saw that was still remembered by me was you against Titan.

The reason I wanted orcinus to gladiate me and Mastin is because if it is 1v1, I can purely focus on her and drown out the noise around me (people can't even talk anyways, so that's good). Then I can finally lay out my case.

Oh, and every player defending me wouldn't be able to voice said defense.

To be fair, you did not have much of a defense during the time I issued such a suggestion to orc. RBD was being attacked alongside you as an accomplice; therefore, he lost credibility in defending you. I probably have missed other people defending you, but I ask you to refer to the people who had defended you late Day 1 and I will probably take back my point depending on your defenders' posts.

In post 3288, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:JOBS MOTHERFUCKERS DO YOU HAVE THEM?

On the weekend. During the weekday, though, I have college-for-future-job, and, uh...well. I've put so much time into this game that I'm kinda...kinda failing this quarter. (Which should be the final quarter.) So yesbutno.

In post 3293, Clyton wrote:5th quote: Self-explanatory based on my post. My suspicion fell on Mastin because of how she came up with the 4 mafia/13 town, something that should've been common knowledge if everyone read it in the beginning, but turned out to be Mastin not reading it at all. However, withheld from that post, you never know if Mastin actually did read it in the beginning and withheld that, using the ruse of not reading the beginning post to get herself out of that suspicion I have on her.

This also makes no sense, since basically, there's no scum motive to lie about knowledge. The best I'd get from pulling such a move would be a faked townslip that would be exactly that--faked, and transparently so. Additionally, reading any of my scumgames (or MD theory for that matter) will show that as scum, I hold the philosophy that the truth is the most powerful weapon a scum player possesses. Lying removes it instantly.

I disagree. But that is a battle of philosophy and different playstyles. You are attacking me on a ground where it is not applicable to the game at hand. How am I suppose to rebuttal? Pick your battles fairly, lest this is also not an credible attack against me.

7th quote: Mastin became an in-between. This is due to recent developments, aka you and CF against RBD and Mastin. I considered your side of the case and RBD's/Mastin's side, and I finally did a nullread on Mustin (on my first read, I didn't nullread anyone).

This makes no sense, because it doesn't really follow the debate at all.

Don't say that to me. It was JSU who picked out a post which I replied to. Don't forget JSU has admitted to being clearly incapable of reading me. I don't expect the posts he picked out would have relevancy to the debate back then if he couldn't even understand where I was getting at.

8th quote: I said it in 3286; that's my reasoning at the moment. I may add more as I analyze Mastin's posts in this game thus far.

You're saying you need to analyze my posts in the game. Yet you're scumreading me.

From a player relying on logic, this is as close as a scumclaim as you can get.

You either analyzed them already and concluded scum or you haven't analyzed them and have that doubt. There's no alternatives from a town player with your self-admitted style of play.

And what's wrong with analyzing and scumreading at the same time? I also nullread, townread and read other factors of the game to read you, simultaneously sometimes. Don't ignore that. Does that mean I will become null all of a sudden in your reads list?

I wouldn't trust your statement on that. I'm not discrediting you, but you know too little of me to make such a statement. Going back to a philosophy each player adheres to, my philosophy believes that there is always an alternative. I did not reveal everything about myself and my meta, and CF can attest to that when I invited him into the off-site where he can analyze me in his leisure.

In post 3297, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 2836, Clyton wrote:I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

Clyton, where did this trust come from?

There's also this.
(Also, I'm obviously slightly sheeping DesBRO, since they basically brought up my reasoning before I could vocalize it.)

In post 3298, Clyton wrote:That is fine. If you are town, then my advice is that you continue to suspect me due to the fact that I cannot be understood from your perspective. Use the foundation you have built (your trust on CF for instance, and extending to that, his read on me). In this case, do not think from your perspective, but other people perspectives (but mines, because you are not able to understand my perspective).

I'll love it if one of his reasonings for me being scum is invoking the trust of others, since he's attempting to do it here. (The difference being he's specifically manipulating F-16 who happens to have an opinion that's convenient for Clyton, whereas zMuffinman can't be manipulated by me and I wouldn't even bother trying.)

In post 3454, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:AP worries me, but I don't really have anything solid to go on there. And his vote on me during the governor/gladiate thing pinged but he did indicate paranoia once or twice during day 1 and LB

did

come off incredibly town during that.

Beli still scumreads Mastin, and depending on how today goes I could see us putting our vote there today.

Clyton wrote:Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1.

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved.

Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

In post 3465, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 3301, Clyton wrote:This trust came from the fact that we were in similar situations. You were in a dilemma like I was. RBD was town, but I would rather sacrifice him for the sake of avoiding a no lynch. But I didn't find PV (where he was the alternative wagon) to be scummy based on my scum/town/nullread on him (or lack thereof). I was asking you for alternatives.

This is also bullshit. It makes no sense.

Clarify what doesn't make sense to you. Don't be a JSU and ignore this request.

In post 3302, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:Look at any fucking game I've played with Mastin, ever. I figure out Mastin's alignment within a few posts every time. You know this, you've seen it, in the same games BRO was in. AoT? Took me a small number of posts to figure out Mastin was scum and I stuck to that vote for the entire three days it took to lynch her. Too Many Heads? I had her figured out within the first couple posts after she replaced in and stuck with that read for the rest of the game. In games you haven't been in, it's the same deal. The most recent Xeno game? I had Mastin figured out from her opening posts and "buddied" her the rest of the game because of it. Mastin is someone I have an amazingly easy time reading, I do not think I'm shooting in the dark with this, and I do think she is town here.

What's worse is you have a heavy meta player (F16) who really has no excuse not to know this about me/mastin if he's read ANY games me/mastin have played together. And he thinks DespBro has a point here. And he thinks we're both scum with AP because.... ??????????????????????? Scum theatre? ??????????? ??????????????

If my posts seem like they're injected with vitriol here, it's because I loathe that sort of playstyle. It's why (prior to the miller counter-claim) I told Nati I'm no longer playing the game - I cannot deal with players who play like that. It's fucking enraging because not only are they playing like that, they have the sheer fucking arrogance of thinking they're right about something I know to be 100% wrong. Like I generally have confidence in my reads, but at no point do I ever say something like F16 said recently ("I've figured out the game earlier than others"). Holy fucking shit that post. I could honestly not believe how fucking arrogant someone so fucking wrong could be.

By the way, anyone thinking Rancid's death after this is coincidental is an idiot or scum.

In post 3309, CarbonFiber wrote:That's a rather absurd simplification of what I said. I said I found all three of you, Mastin, and AP scummy and I wouldn't discount you being in a team. If you are scum, you can continue lying about it but if you are town, realize that you misinterpreted what I am saying.

JANITORED no less. Rancid was JANITORED. And it was comments like this that explain that. 'Cause guess what? It's the worst fucking thing for the town Rancid's alignment regardless. Rancid's scum, the info is kept from us. Rancid's town, his town/scumreads cannot be validated, among them the vital (VITAL) townread on me. (Btw, that's why you can tell that, alignment regardless, I had nothing to do with the janitor/kill on Rancid. Him flipping town would clear me.)

In post 3309, CarbonFiber wrote:Tammy knows this from Anything Goes where she was scum with Mastin and [masting] identified who she was going to mislynch. It didn't matter to Mastin that Angry Frat BROS pegged the entire scumteam because the rest of the town weren't going to listen to them.

I identified threats, and identified how players would be read. Correctly. You saw it in AoT as well. With near-perfect accuracy, I identified players' roles in the game, be it mislynch or nightkill.

So how would I have made a miscalculation this game, F-16, of this magnitude? Where all my supposed mislynches...aren't getting mislynched, not even close, and are scumreading me? In Anything Goes, there was a grand total of two players I marked for mislynching that scumread me. (Desp and AFB.) All my other mislynch targets didn't. This game, my "mislynch targets" have been Tammy, you, Fox/Hound, DesBRO, PV, and recently Clyton. And I'm null to scum to all of them.

Your logic, simply put, doesn't hold up. Because you're writing onto me my scumplay when it doesn't exist.

In post 3329, CarbonFiber wrote:Also, the "ignore Muffin" advice was good so I am going to do that from now.

Because his read on me is inconvenient to your narrative.

In post 3470, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 3454, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:AP worries me, but I don't really have anything solid to go on there. And his vote on me during the governor/gladiate thing pinged but he did indicate paranoia once or twice during day 1 and LB

did

come off incredibly town during that.

Meh. If I had another role, I'd be more inclined to sort him now. Since I can't die, I'm going to put that off for a while. He IS nullscum to me overall, but I'm not going to get into a debate with him when we have Clyton and PV around, still.

Beli still scumreads Mastin, and depending on how today goes I could see us putting our vote there today.

Clyton wrote:Yet I do not understand your attack on me for being honest in regards to being frustrated with the state of the majority near the end of Day 1.

Because it comes across as being scum realizing they showed a weakness and now need a way to have covered it up.

Especially since this is how your scumread on me evolved.

My scumread on you came from painstakingly doing analysis, and showing it in-thread, and reanalyzing everything and showing my thoughts. It had a clear progression. It was in the thread, laid out. Yours is hidden behind the shadows, broken and jarred.

Writing a defense is so much easier than writing an offense.

Especially for scum. Because town players don't give a damn about looking good, but scum players do. (I wish you were a frequent on MS.net so that this post could be a scumtell from you, but alas. It could be legitimate culture clash.)

Potshot guess at a scumteam would be Clyton, PV, orc, and AP, but eh.

In post 3472, Clyton wrote:

In post 3470, MastinSSK wrote:You ruthlessly continue your attacks on me, but you make no case to defend yourself, which I believe you have even said so earlier in the game.

Yep! And believe me. It's not because I can't defend myself. I can. It's because me being town is so fucking self-evident that I don't even really need to bother putting in the effort.

What if your attacks doesn't break this defensive wall I put up?

If at first you don't succeed...
Try, try again.
Which, thanks to my role, I can.

(Or I could just get PV lynched and become obvtown because me bussing remains an abnormality in my play which while not impossible is still unusual.)

Then you expose yourself to being attacked by others.

Sure do. Don't give a damn. See, that's the thing about town players on MS.net. (Again, gods, I wish I could scumread you for this, even though culture clash is far more likely the answer.) They don't care about others scumreading them. They care

about lynching scum

, and devote all their effort to it.

You're really no threat and many have their accusations against you, some more hidden than mines.

I love it when scum call me not a threat. It really has a way of blowing up in their faces.

If I read your analysis and continued to make such a statement, then that would lead to this; exposing myself in the more public open. Yet I still did just that.