Mafiascum.net

what i have to go off of is, for all his measured and dashing posts, menalque is trying to get votes on the jailkeeper when lilith being scum would require an intentional nokill on night 1, a move i find exceedingly unlikely

In post 3474, Infinity 324 wrote:Yeah idk. I hate it when people tell me my strong TRs are wrong, it happens all the time and I’m almost always right. If you were town, I’d expect you to at least give some consideration to my PoV here since you don’t really have a cohesive one of your own and you’ve townread me in the past. Obviously I don’t have everything figured out, and I could be wrong on mena/hoopla but the fact that you don’t even seem to be considering my PoV feels like you’re approaching this with an agenda and opposed to just not having confidence.

your pov is that i'm fucking scum of course i'm not going to consider it

You don’t have to be scum from my PoV. It could be lilith/s_s/bird, or n_m/dave made a weird role choice. It’s not exactly Occam’s razor-y, but neither is much of anything this game.

I feel like I’m being led along a series of mislims none of which my heart is in and I just don’t really have any agency this game. I just wish whoever is town would listen to me for once.

In post 2322, petapan wrote:

In post 2298, Hoopla wrote:

In post 2297, petapan wrote:i feel so iffy

what's wrong peta?

eh i don't really agree with the points tgp is making against infinity but my heart isn't saying they're scum. voters on the wagon don't look terrible, and yet, and yet. tried looking at their game in mystery box of silver 10 and it felt similar with the sort of moonlogic reasoning but they were a little more proactive. also questioning whether some of the weirdness from them that i disliked is actually scummy or not. granted my feelings day 1 lead me down the wrong path so maybe i should trust other people but i still don't feel

great

Remember this peta? Do you not feel the same iffiness about the gamestate that you did then? Since then we’ve had another uncontested mislim and we’re setting up for another one. It just feels like we’re playing right into scum’s hands.

i don't know why you're dragging that up, i had doubts about the tgp wagon in particular because of my read on him, not because of any "gamestate" shit (none of this "gamestate" or "solving" shit was in the lexicon back in 2012). i didn't fight it hard enough, but then my alternative vote was dunnstral. i had doubts there yesterday too but i let menalque talk me out of them

i don't know why it matters, though - i thought you were generally town day 2 but i haven't been right yet and i'm running out of possibilities. why the hell should i trust you?

It feels like I've been the only one trying to resist the flow of the game for a few day phases, and I thought town!you might've felt the same way about us playing into scum's hands. My heart also wasn't in the dunn elim and isn't in the mena elim, so I was just reminded of that quote. But apparently you don't feel the same way so *shrug*

@hoopla Do you think scum playing ~weirdly~ makes s_s more likely to be scum (coming up with the weird plays) or town (since that's one more mechanical player to trick by doing unexpected mechanical plays).

In post 3482, Infinity 324 wrote:It feels like I've been the only one trying to resist the flow of the game for a few day phases, and I thought town!you might've felt the same way about us playing into scum's hands. My heart also wasn't in the dunn elim and isn't in the mena elim, so I was just reminded of that quote. But apparently you don't feel the same way so *shrug*

did you not get that feeling when you and menalque were voting lilith uncontest? do you think the menalque vote is uncontested? because from where i'm sitting it looks very contested

In post 3484, petapan wrote:

In post 3482, Infinity 324 wrote:It feels like I've been the only one trying to resist the flow of the game for a few day phases, and I thought town!you might've felt the same way about us playing into scum's hands. My heart also wasn't in the dunn elim and isn't in the mena elim, so I was just reminded of that quote. But apparently you don't feel the same way so *shrug*

did you not get that feeling when you and menalque were voting lilith uncontest? do you think the menalque vote is uncontested? because from where i'm sitting it looks very contested

I mean, there were 2 people voting lilith at most. 3 people are voting mena right now, with s_s also expressing potential support. The lilith wagon (if you can even call it that) felt very different (especially from the TGP/dunn lims, which felt certain) and the fact that you're trying to compare them bothers me tbh

In post 2859, Menalque wrote:Could also just be that dunn is town and scum are fine with his elim, of course, but that’s where it’s just wine

Scum have reasons to behave the way they are if dunn is town or scum and dunn is scummy on play, which is a good enough reason to kill him

In post 2860, skitter30 wrote:

In post 2859, Menalque wrote:Could also just be that dunn is town and scum are fine with his elim, of course, but that’s where it’s just wine

part of me is a little bit paranoid of this

In post 2861, petapan wrote:i've had that thought lingering but i'm not really going to get bent out of shape if that is the case at this point

yeah truth be told i had the feeling it was wrong but he also wasn't really playing and so didn't care. bad move? probably. was hoping claims would make the picture clearer.

and the thing that bothers me is, that reasoning about lilith being town from menalque i quoted earlier, suddenly it all went away when dunn claimed and had the exact same reasoning. suddenly dunn was obvscum for saying the same thing menalque had about lilith. and yeah, i should have said this at the time, instead of now. that's a failure on my partbut it doesn't mean i can or should continue to ignore it.

Let’s guillotine lilith and win this one for the homies?

In post 3464, petapan wrote:

In post 2513, Menalque wrote:My logic on lili being locktown is as follows:

There is confirmed to me that there is a JK in the slots above me (pine requested JK and didn’t get it)

Lilith is claimed JK

I don’t see why scum lili would claim a JK on me there but I think town!lili excited because she thought it was a guilty /totally would/ out herself there


***

I think skitter is scummy for not being dead and for pushing lili like this, which is what I think scum would do if there’s a doctor in the game who blocked the kill N1 and who scum are worried would cover lili last night

whatever happened to this reasoning, btw

did it suddenly go away because lilith is a convenient vote, or what

Did you miss the long and drawn out conversation skitter and I had on this yesterday

did it suddenly go away because I’m a convenient vote, or what

The point was that lili claimed the JK on me at a point where I actually hadn’t started to town myself up yet, and so the claim /wasn’t/ town!lilith not wanting to out herself until it looked like I might no longer be guillotined

So the claim was unnecessary as either alignment, and therefore isn’t the solid town proof I thought it was

In post 3457, davesaz wrote:

In post 3425, Hoopla wrote:@dave, N_M, lilith, peta

if menalque is scum, who are his partners?

One day at a time. If we miss it's getting too close to not mattering, so I'll take the one in the hand over the one in the bush.

What you mean is you don’t know and because you’re scum who wants me dead today you don’t feel like bothering to consider it

Dave is scum 100% here I think, he’s not approaching this with any interest in sorting, he’s just pushing me

It feels incredibly bad faithy, as do his attempts to assert he’s town while pursuing a lazy tunnel that he won’t explain beyond “the soft guilty is damning evidence”... only we all assessed that as evidence, and even without the doc/rb slot, it’s *still not that damning*

There’s a very good chance at this point the kill was on me, but a universe is being present very strongly by those with an interest in it that the kill must have been stopped from me stopping it. Yes, I’m aware that this would make lilith town, I’m trying to weigh that up against skitter’s read. All *I* know is that either lilith is scum and no killed, or if lilith is town then scum tried to kill me

In post 3463, petapan wrote:i'd prefer not to get yeeted obviously but if people are gonna suggest i'm scum for nebulous reasons then we can resolve that issue right now

i entirely think it's possible ther could be multiple scum in the group given how infinity went from trying to talk nice to me, be like "c'mon i want you to solve" to turning on me and deciding i'm most likely scum when i actually bothered to piece together the mechanics rather than just sheeping along and voting lilith

What is nebulous about the reasons I’m saying you’re very plausibly scum gambiting with Dave and going for the win?

What is your alternative explanation? Who is scum in S_S/infinity and why? I wanna hear this today if I’m going so I can try to give town as much help towards a correct solve tomorrow as possible

In post 3472, Something_Smart wrote:in particular, Menalque, you were disagreeing with skitter while she was alive despite townreading her, but once she's flipped you now want to sheep her reads. Why is that?

Where did I disagree? I just wanted my flip first, I didn’t say lilith is not scum? Like I did for a bit but by the end of day (when my TR of skitter has shored up) I was agreeing with her that lil was scummy but that dunn was scummier

Also, the very fact skitter is dead points towards lil?

In post 3473, petapan wrote:because i don't fucking townread them lmfao

Yeah, again, why? What is not towny about me other than there being a soft guilty? Who has done more to try and move this game along, to engage people, and to solve than me?

My heart says S_S is scum but my brain says that the last time I went for what I felt was true instead of listening to skitter we misguillotined the monkey

In post 3493, Menalque wrote:

In post 3463, petapan wrote:i'd prefer not to get yeeted obviously but if people are gonna suggest i'm scum for nebulous reasons then we can resolve that issue right now

i entirely think it's possible ther could be multiple scum in the group given how infinity went from trying to talk nice to me, be like "c'mon i want you to solve" to turning on me and deciding i'm most likely scum when i actually bothered to piece together the mechanics rather than just sheeping along and voting lilith

What is nebulous about the reasons I’m saying you’re very plausibly scum gambiting with Dave and going for the win?

What is your alternative explanation? Who is scum in S_S/infinity and why? I wanna hear this today if I’m going so I can try to give town as much help towards a correct solve tomorrow as possible

because "might be gambiting" isn't really a solid case and beyond that all you've suggested is "isn't playing like he did in a spctator thread" (which i'm still pissed off about)

if you were to flip town i'd have to guess that it's something_smart but at that point the game is probably lost if infinity's town because he probably votes me. as to why? i dunno, because he plausibly shoots you night 1, basically didn't do anything on days 2-3, has had some reactions today but beyond that not a whole lot? would be the only guess i have.

if you wanna just argue "skitter townread the other 3 people" then, okay, vote me

In post 3495, Menalque wrote:

In post 3473, petapan wrote:because i don't fucking townread them lmfao

Yeah, again, why? What is not towny about me other than there being a soft guilty? Who has done more to try and move this game along, to engage people, and to solve than me?

tryharding doesn't make you town and the fact that we're in the situation we're in would make sense if the dominant voice in the room was scum