Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:41 pm**

People Who Heard Noises:

El Goosuki (warded)
Fate (stalked)
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
MagnaofIllusion
ReaperCharlie (warded)
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

People in Danger:

Fate (Stalk)
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
MangaofIllusion
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

@xvart, you claimed a ward, which player did you ward? Same to Baby Spice. Withholding the player nullifies the benefit of doing the noise/ward claims imo.

Furcolow is scum until Percy either answers MoI's question fixing Furcolow's inconsistency or proves Furcolow as lying scum. If Percy doesn't answer the question Furcolow still needs to be lynched for the inconsistency.

Hito is town for everything so far.

Andrius's comment about possibly taking Suicidal yet agreeing with the forbidden list is contradictory. Doesn't make sense from a scum standpoint though.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:42 pm**

I was gone for a handful of hours and multiple pages. Good god almighty.

Fate wrote:I agree with SpyreX though that MANY PEOPLE have reached nigh-100% town status, and that this list should not be made
today
.

After looking at what is going on I am positive this is the right move. On top of the fact the raw madness needs to subside there is *SECRET REASONS* that play a part too.

Fate wrote:I'll, just for fucking giggles, I'm going to ONCE AGAIN try to get it through Benmage's thick scull that he's wrong:

Wish me luck.

Just. Stop.

It's not going to happen and I DONT WANT THAT FIGHT AGAIN FFS. We're running into noise pollution already. Be part of the solution.

Baby Spice F--
Plum A++

Plum wrote:SPYREX? FRIEND OF MY HEART? WE BOTH LOVE A GOOD VIG KILL, EVEN IF WE HAVE TO LIMIT OURSELVES TO ONLY ONE, NO? BONUS CONFIRMS YOU TOWN. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS AND GET BACK TO ME IN A COUPLE OF DAYS, 'KAY?

Yes ma'aam.

RC wrote:my patented (and highly affordable) Gastro-Intestinal Pro-(or Anti-)Town Detection Device.

Well then I think we're gonna have to get around the table and hash this out while twirling mustaches because apparently gremlins done snuck up ins there.

Feysal wrote:I just waded through 10 pages of posts, reading through every single one. Took me close to three hours. Out of those posts, how many did I actually want to comment on? 5. Out of 250.

Ohh HELL NO.

There's a lot of noise. Too damn much noise. But 5?

And if one is to assume these are the actual 5 you wanted to post about, SERIOUSLY.

You get a ticket on the short list.

I think it would be a good to make out a Town Approved Insanity list. Agree/Disagree?

VV wrote: Here's what I think are good:
Twitchy
Compulsion

Suicidal

Uhhh.

Sure thats awesome and all if we're not looking at end game but Its way easier to work without causing major issues with Distraction, Paranoid or even mid-late game Denial. Hell even Mutilation is better in the right HEAVILY CONTROLLED circumstances.

Xvart's got a lot of words that don't do a lot for me. At all.

Hito wrote: * Hallucination - You always hear Noises each Night regardless of actions taken. This would deny the town information which is always a raw deal. It also makes it so scum can neatly sidestep noise-based inquires.
* Suicidal - You require one less vote to lynch. This is not reflected in vote counts and does not affect Sadism. As TNM said earlier, this could put us in LYLO a day early. It's too late for Benmage not to take it but I don't want anyone else doing it.
* Sadism - You may only place your votes on players who are one or two votes away from a lynch. Scum would love nothing more then to only vote on wagons that are probably sure things. Hell, if I was scum, I'd fake having Sadism even if I didn't take it. We allow Sadism into the game and pretty much all normal vote-based scumhunting goes out the window. I'll be policy lynching anyone who takes Sadism regardless of what the town thinks.
* Denial - Your Insanity Count does not increase tonight, but it will automatically increase by one on each of the following two Nights. This allows people to explain away -1 insanity discrepancies (no man, I just took denial) and +1 insanity discrepancies (no man, took denial two days ago.)
* Mutilation - You always appear Bloody for the purposes of the Investigate action. Again, what TNM said. If you're bloody, this is not an acceptable reason why.

Hallucination is definitely bad.
Suicidal as well.
Denial I think can be worked with.
Mutiliation works if it is known

ahead of time

thats the route its going AND its only done by the techiest of the tech. So, chances are its better to just nuke it but.
Sadism doesn't bother me but I think a lot can be said with words (If I was a Sadist I'd defintely a.) make it known and b.) make it apparent what wagon I would be voting for at all times) but yea I see both sides.

-----

Then, the fun stuff:

AV wrote:1) I'm not going to ignore something that looks like it could come from cult just because I have a town-read on someone. I made it clear that I didn't think he was cult. What's the problem?

2) I just read ~10 pages in one go. It's almost 1am. I am not re-reading until tomorrow.

3) Because he WILL kill Fate if we don't lynch Fate, and that would confirm him as town (as I understand it) - or be exposed as a liar. Since he can't die tonight anyway, I'd rather be cautious and let the guy who CAN confirm himself as town do that, if he is in fact town.

I just want this clear.

You don't see the problem* in going "ohh he's town but he could be cult". Orr, "Ohh he's town but he could go POWERTARD and become a murderer" with one of the handful of reads you've given.

Further, and this hurts the brain enough that I'm laying it down.

1.) You said ben is scum (or, the "scummiest player")
2.) You said there is no way to stop ben from killing fate if we don't lynch fate.
3.) You said the right answer is letting him kill fate to confirm himself as town (by going halfway down the murder route).

Problems with this are simple and beautiful:

1.) You've never even insinuated in the slightest that Fate is scum. So going "well, we cant do anything *shrug*" isn't awesome because of:
2.) THE WAY ONE DEALS WITH STOPPING BEN FROM KILLING FATE ESPECIALLY IF YOU ACTUALLY THOUGHT BEN WAS SCUM WOULD BE IN FACT VOTING AND PERHAPS EVEN LYNCHING HIM.

Jesus.

Super best points when I get my way (AND YOU BENMAGE PAY ATTENTION PLEASE).

If AV IS scum then, for sure I'd stake all the hats on it, BEN AND FATE are both town. 100% sans gotard.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:54 pm**

? How am I not paying attention

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:55 pm**

I'm saying if I am right and AV gets lynched AND is scum...

DONT KILL FATE DOUBLE PLUS.

Even though YOU SHOULD BE DOING IT EITHER WAY I'M TRYING HERE.

Seriously.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:05 pm**

It is past the point of no return, but I am going to try and make somewhat amendsfor the towns best interest and hope fate complys

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:27 pm**

Spyrex wrote:Sadism doesn't bother me but I think a lot can be said with words (If I was a Sadist I'd defintely a.) make it known and b.) make it apparent what wagon I would be voting for at all times) but yea I see both sides.

You know how scum love to FOS their buddies because they can express fake suspicion without having to worry about the consequences? Imagine someone walking in to a game saying "Yeah, I can only FOS or hammer. Doctors orders. Got my prescription right here." Feel the terrible seething hatred in your gut towards that player. That's what happens when we allow Sadism.

I'm saying if I am right and AV gets lynched AND is scum...

DONT KILL FATE DOUBLE PLUS.

Remember we don't get flips on people until their grave is robbed.

Still torn on the fate/benmage thing. On the one hand, it's incredibly unfair to have fate killed for the vendatta Benmage brought in, and it would be great to defuse the whole situation and have them both survive. On the other...

As my ignorance of the issue shows, nowhere in the rules does it state that kills have flavor. Benmage has professed to not reading either of the previous Stars Aligned games. If you didn't know kills had flavor, it would be excellent to Craft Fetish n0, claim Stalk, then Participate in the Ritual n1 and call it a murder. You become a "confirmed townie", and people will latch on to a murder that happened n1 and assume that was the ritual. Let's assume you started this plan by Crafting a Fetish and claiming a Stalk. Then you learn that kills have flavor. Shit! If you go through with the ritual, you're shown to be lying. You can't murder them because you never stalked. Your only chance is to do something else and fake a Resuscitation - those are pretty slim odds for you. If I was scum in that situation, I'd be really goddamn keen to bury the hatchet and not have to put my fake Stalk to the test.

On reflection, not sure how likely that is, though. It's a pretty involved plan for someone with no SA experience to pull out of their ass n0. He could have gotten the idea from a scumbuddy in the quicktopic, but in all likelihood at least one of the people in the topic have at least READ a SA game before and could give the advice to refrain from this sort of plan.

So yeah, actually, I think that we should keep Benmage and Fate alive and that Ben should not follow through on his stalk.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:32 pm**

Remember we don't get flips on people until their grave is robbed.

WOO FFF ME

Ok, then yes there is no "ohh alas past the point of no return" garbagio. Do NOT do it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:34 pm**

Hi guys, our account has been finally activated. Trilobite=sottyrulez(=Sotty7+zachrulez) + Ojanen. We'll have an avatar soon.
This post is strictly Oj - sorry sottyrulez, simply no chance to run this through together at this gamepace if I ever want to keep up and post something.

hito has said it most clearly several times but since it seemed to me people were still shouting over him about Furc, I'll put out the fact again that

it is extremely likely due to the mod error with the final version of the rules that Furc warded N0

. Read the 2 first pages again. Everything matches.
It would require an huge coincidence with rule draft versions and Percy if Furc instead stalked/crafted a fetish etc N0 to create the noise as some suggested, or did something else. Ward seems a suboptimal scum action N0 from my understanding of the rules.
Aside that, Furc is very town to me due to how I have seen him previously act as scum/town.
But I have to say:

Furc wrote:I should take a breather, and collect myself. Should. I'm not going to. You know why? Because it would not fit my town meta. I am very, very helpful while I am here. I am not going to be here all day, so people will be able to play while I'm away.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEASE stop spamming to "match your meta". You don't need it, most sane people see you're very likely town atm.
You had posted 83 TIMES the last time I checked in the hours this thread has been opened today. 83. FREAKING. TIMES. There was some good hidden in the bunch, but PLEASE cut the spam/repetition. It's

literally impossible

for me to play while reading everything if you post this much.

this head also thinks Benmage vs. Fate is likely town/town, and obv /wrists material.
I actually would love to scream my gut out to Benmage - while Fate delivered way too much pissing and spam from the provocation, the fact that Ben's idiocy is so maddeningly self-righteous and holier-than-thou manages to totally get me. But. Breathe.

I like hito/SpyreX as town.
I don't like AurorusVox; in his catch up post all the shadowing on furc, then going to great lenghts to bring up unlikely scenarios undermining hito/furc while still ending how they look town to him; essentially what SpyreX said. Also sticky with voting, needs to reread all that fluff after the thread being opened half a day to put out a vote?
I don't like kunkstar7. Savvy with the mechanics, but says very little aside that and antagonizing furc - disconnect could be due to previous exposure to mechanics though.
I don't like xvart - literally every single post tunnels on furc with now reluctantly considering the ward/rule thing in the beginning, and part of the crowd who didn't go check the signup thread before finding Furc's explanation implausible (to see how Drippereth signed up, then DGB outted with the intention of Elli to hydra with someone else, then El Goosuki inned.)
I'm ok with Bowser wagon.

I haven't read the last page, too damn many posts.
Should discuss with other heads before vote.

Oj

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:40 pm**

I feel that there's a suggestion of guilt around Benmage, I don't think he's necessarily Cult, but remember, being an Investigator does not make you "Town".

Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?
Ben's attack on me for saying "I think your meta is stupid", he declares that I am definitely scum, this smacks of not caring who he paints as scum. Note, he didn't just say I was acting scummy, he declared me definitely scum.
Stalk Night 0 is not a town action. He wants us to trust that he won't kill again, and that he was taking an insanity point to murder another player before any tells on that player could be revealed and that that was a town action.

Personally, I think Benmage is an investigator who wants to go Murderer. At the very least he's an investigator, planning on staying an investigator, but is willing to spend two night actions on doing something that has a 75% chance of being anti-town.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:45 pm**

Seacore wrote:Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?

Yep, way back in post 81:

Hito 81 wrote:
benmage wrote:She would've if she was investigator. Fate has no allegiance to PTW. Fate would gladly lynch me or kill me (as town) if I was modconfirmed as town. Thats how awesome (sarcasm) she is. She probably did something else the cult wanted from her.

This is where you lose me. Why would Fate have no allegiance to PTW
as town
, but not as cult? Even if the cult refused to participate in the ritual on you, Fate could still just go Craft Fetish > Pass Fetish every two turns if she's as spiteful as you say.

As an aside, please quote posts you are replying to even if it's the post directly above you. Try to make your posts as ISO-friendly as possible, because this is gonna be a long, long game.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:48 pm**

15 pages in 12 hours. Hrm, that'll teach me to be slow to pick up my PM.

Also: Hi everyone, didn't hear any noise, are we mass-claiming night actions at this point?

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:49 pm**

hitogoroshi wrote:
Seacore wrote:Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?
Yep, way back in post 81:

Hito 81 wrote:
benmage wrote:She would've if she was investigator. Fate has no allegiance to PTW. Fate would gladly lynch me or kill me (as town) if I was modconfirmed as town. Thats how awesome (sarcasm) she is. She probably did something else the cult wanted from her.

This is where you lose me. Why would Fate have no allegiance to PTW
as town
, but not as cult? Even if the cult refused to participate in the ritual on you, Fate could still just go Craft Fetish > Pass Fetish every two turns if she's as spiteful as you say.

So, Benmage, can you please respond to this?
Why does InvestiFate not PTW but CultiFate does PTW?

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:50 pm**

Furpants_Tom wrote:15 pages in 12 hours. Hrm, that'll teach me to be slow to pick up my PM.

Also: Hi everyone, didn't hear any noise, are we mass-claiming night actions at this point?

Hey Tom! I'm excited about playing with you here!

We are claiming if we warded somebody, and if we cowered (default no-action) or if we crafted a fetish.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:54 pm**

Wait Hito did you make that pouint before AV?

That was the only thing stopping me from that wagon.

Literally not a single person siding with Benmage on this issue makes my heart smile, it also seems to have shut him up.

You know a theory IVE got cooking in my brain?

1. Furcolow did indeed Ward n0, obv
2. Furcolow warded his scumbuddy
3. Furcolow claimed targeted Drippereth in thread BECAUSE Drippereth posted as such in the scum QT.
4. LOL OWNED SCUM OWNED
5. Town misinterpreted this, falsely clearing Furc
6. MoIbuddy continues to tunnel Furcolow for town cred
7. ??? asks mod for clarification on invalid actions (most likely town this person, if its MoI I apologize)
8. Mod will either confirm Furcolow scum or not, depending on how Percy feels like answering
9. ???
10. Profit

Yeah its an insane theory, but two scum for the price of one would be pretty epic.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:04 pm**

Seacore wrote:
hitogoroshi wrote:
Seacore wrote:Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?
Yep, way back in post 81:

Hito 81 wrote:
benmage wrote:She would've if she was investigator. Fate has no allegiance to PTW. Fate would gladly lynch me or kill me (as town) if I was modconfirmed as town. Thats how awesome (sarcasm) she is. She probably did something else the cult wanted from her.
Like I said, she's probably adhereing or following whatever the cult wants....but I have the Meta for her as town that shows her not PTW in my book....so what is your point? She doesn't PTW when town but might when scum.....no clue...you can drink that wine....but she don't with me, when town.

This is where you lose me. Why would Fate have no allegiance to PTW
as town
, but not as cult? Even if the cult refused to participate in the ritual on you, Fate could still just go Craft Fetish > Pass Fetish every two turns if she's as spiteful as you say.

So, Benmage, can you please respond to this?
Why does InvestiFate not PTW but CultiFate does PTW?

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:05 pm**

Fucking phones.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:06 pm**

Seacore wrote: Hey Tom! I'm excited about playing with you here!

Thanks! I know, I am an exciting guy, but I never get tired of hearing it. Especially when it's in the same sentence as "philately".

Seacore wrote: We are claiming if we warded somebody, and if we cowered (default no-action) or if we crafted a fetish.

Oh good, because I crafted a... Wait a minute, you cunning and handsome devil, you almost had me there! No insanities here, officer.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:06 pm**

Fate wrote:
3. Furcolow claimed targeted Drippereth in thread BECAUSE Drippereth posted as such in the scum QT.

Drippereth does not post in QTs as Drippereth, but rather as their separate heads. Of course, that doesn't mean that Both Elli and Drip posted and Furcolow hurriedly made an assumption.

My reference for this is the Clash of Kings mafia game that Faraday and I ran. Mina was in that QT, so both heads of Lost Butterfly should be able to back me up on that.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:07 pm**

I have town Meta fate not PTw. You can drink all the wine about how shell act as scum. I suggested she's following the cult unit because she can't solo kill me

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:08 pm**

Furpants_Tom wrote:
Seacore wrote:
We are claiming if we warded somebody, and if we cowered (default no-action) or if we crafted a fetish.
Oh good, because I crafted a... Wait a minute, you cunning and handsome devil, you almost had me there! No insanities here, officer.

Can't blame me for trying

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:09 pm**

Benmage wrote:I have town Meta fate not PTw. You can drink all the wine about how shell act as scum. I suggested she's following the cult unit because she can't solo kill me

Either way, you've behaved incredibly anti-town and, assuming nobody digs themselves in deeper, I'd be happy to see you hang for it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:16 pm**

Seacore wrote:
Benmage wrote:I have town Meta fate not PTw. You can drink all the wine about how shell act as scum. I suggested she's following the cult unit because she can't solo kill me
Either way, you've behaved incredibly anti-town and, assuming nobody digs themselves in deeper, I'd be happy to see you hang for it.

Of course would. You're either cult. Or an emotional unhappy player. I couldn't bee bleeding more town.

Also I don't believe I said you were definitely cult. I did name you cult as well as another 3, 5 total.....do I think with 100% certainty I nailed 5 cult....lol even chuck Norris aint hung like that. I even go on to tell you to start busing or act more like town. Which I have failed immensely.

Noone can say I don't have high regards for ptw which essentially means you'd have to be retarded to go the murder route and it is a tough stretch to suggest I'd do this.

This goes with what someone just said about me reading SA2....I was linked it I skimmed PG 1 145 and 146... mainly read Percy's big post/commentary. That why I said things like even Percy says murders are dumb ans almost an imposable wc. Atleast I think I said something along those lines...hate phones.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:18 pm**

I failed....should read you failed....I hope Faraday comes in soon, because sea is screaming scum.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:26 pm**

Or an emotional unhappy player.

Lol, says the person who behaved like a 5 year old while fighting with Fate.

You say you "couldn't be bleeding more town"

Let's assume this is true (and that you mean investigator). This hasn't been proven, but let's say you're not cult.

We then need to assume that you wouldn't go Murderer because it's difficult. I agree that it's difficult to get away with three kills, but you've concocted a story for us to "allow you" your first kill. That makes it easier to win

So, even with the two assumptions, a) that you're not cult and b) that you wouldn't go murderer, we still have you doing something which is so incredibly anti-town. You rarely get a better reason to lynch somebody day 1.

Why am I screaming scum? Because I disagree with you? Because I dislike how anti-town you've been?

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:33 pm**

Me confirming myself as 100% town upon fates death who may or may not flip cult isn't nearly as antitown as you are suggesting. What's more antitown is lynching the Guy whose 100% confirmed.....or nigh confirmed if it please you.

Mafiascum.net

Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day