Mini 261: World summit mafia - Game over


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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:27 am

Post by stark »

You're free to coincedize all you want. I nominated nightfall because I thought, at the time, that he was a good, contributing member, as that was all we had to go by. I cannot justify why Nightfall votes for me. I dont see any reason why final voting matters. Perhaps you can clear this up for me?
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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:35 am

Post by draygn_mage »

EBWODP-

1. considering I cast some suspicion on Fritzler's claim myself, I don't blame you for that.

2. YES. Especially if said scum knew no Vig in their right mind would attempt to kill the world leader. It makes perfect sense for the scum to claim they can protect their scum-buddy as they know that THEY will never try to kill him. It works even better is the scum who gets elected also happens to have a 1x nightkill immunity. (I realize that one of my reasons for voting you in the first place were that I don't think a TOWNIE would have a nightkill immunity (1x or otherwise). Balances out a mafia role nicely though, I think.

3. The only person who came back that was scum was VitaminR and he was the SK with NO knowledge of who the scum were, hence he could very well be a townie. PJ was a townie the first time around, so thank you for clearing him for us further.
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:37 am

Post by draygn_mage »

Oops, cross post.

It matters because the scum would be thrilled to have one of their own elected leader. The fact that you nominated Nightfall a scum, and he was perfectly happy with you being leader (applying the last vote and all) and also distancing himself ("I hope I don't get blamed for this...") screams SCUM to me.
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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:09 pm

Post by VitaminR »

petroleumjelly wrote:All right VitaminR: what do you find so suspicious about me that you want to lynch me for? And why do you want to lynch me over Stark? Especially when both Draygn_Mage and I have created arguments (and different ones to boot) as to why Stark is the last scum?
Okay, found some time to answer these questions.
It is mostly your claim. I don't believe it. For one thing, the lands of King Xerxes actually included Babylon at the time of his reign. I had to double check this (I wasn't sure earlier), but you are claiming lands that fall under VitaminR I's lands. Also, Hammurabi didn't actually write the first code of law. He simply reorganised the existing legal system, but his laws are the oldest ones that have survived. I found this out with a little bit of very basic research. If you did a school paper on him, I doubt that you do not know this. This leads me to think you omitted it to seem more credible. Furthermore, only one vanilla townie seems unlikely to me. In a game with 3 scum and an SK it fits to have a couple of improved townies. This is weak evidence, though.

Aside from your claim I thought your behaviour today was different from Miyazaki (in which I think you played very well, btw). Not really anything I can put my finger on, but a general feeling of scumminess nonetheless.

Perhaps more importantly, I am not convinced by the arguments against Stark.

Noticed this on my re-read (Bacde commenting about world leader election):
Bacde wrote: Stark is a very interesting, and funny choice though.
What do you guys think? I thought it was unlikely scum would be say something so obvious about each other, but I guess that is WIFOM to a certain extent.
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:24 pm

Post by stark »

For the record, i am perfectly happy being lynched. If it is the town's wish.
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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:32 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Ah, thanks VitaminR. I will address what I can.

Concerning Babylonia being land ruled by Xerxes, I will take your word for it, seeing as I am horrible with geography. There is nothing I can say as to why I would be given land that somebody else jointly owns.

Further, I agree that Hammurabi did not “write” Hammurabi’s Code, but then, nobody knows who wrote it. All I know was that it was penned in Mesopotamia (and it is worth noting VisMaior agreed to give me Mesopotamia in place of Babylonia), and that Hammurabi was the first to implement that Code of Law. My paper was on Hammurabi’s Code, not Hammurabi himself.

There is also nothing I can say to defend myself in your saying that a plain vanilla townie is unbelievable, since there are 3 scum and 1 SK. Perhaps the balancing effect was the position of World Leader? Apparently nobody knows what type of boon that role entails, other than requiring a larger number of votes for a lynching.

And if my playing is different from this game compared to Miyazaki, that could easily be explained by the fact that I was a Sane Cop in that game who had plenty of information to work with through investigations, a messager, and a testable Doctor, Role-Blocker, and Mason. In this game I am a townie who happens to own a parcel of land, and the only verified roles I can see are D_Mage and Outlaw. I can only work with what I know. As it is, I believe your claim simply because otherwise I believe scum would only need 5 lands to win the game (as explained in an earlier post). The only logical choice for me to place my vote, then, is Stark.

I think it is worth noting that Stark is trying to appeal to emotion now that he is coming perilously close to being lynched, by saying that he is “perfectly happy being lynched”, as to make us begin doubting ourselves. If he is
really
a pro-town player with some sort of ability (a one-time-selfprotection in this case), he should pushing for the lynch on me since I have absolutely no abilities at all. It is more important for the town to keep power roles alive than townie roles. It is also more important to hunt for scum than for a pro-town player to allow himself to be lynched, especially this late in the game. Stark is simply not playing as if he were pro-town. If it matters, I will
Confirm Vote: Stark
. All we need is that one extra push from you, VitaminR.
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:49 am

Post by VitaminR »

Well fine. If no one agrees with me, I'll change my vote. I don't want to stall the game too much.

I hope I'm wrong about you, PJ.

unvote: petroleumjelly

vote: stark
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:02 am

Post by VisMaior »

Ok, then.

Stark 4 (outlaw ,VitaminR II, PJ II, draygn_mage)

And with that,
Stark, sultan Suleiman, ruler of the Ottomans, is lynched.
Fortunately for the rest of you, he was a megalomaniac.

Town wins!


Rules and nightchises follow, when I get home. Any critique is welcome.
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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:07 am

Post by VitaminR »

Well apparently my gut feeling is terrible. I hope PJ was at least lying about his claim. Probably not.

Great game, VM! I enjoyed playing it.
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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:10 am

Post by stark »

Pfft, habeas corpus punks, and may your respective children be infested with the fleas of a thousand camels. But come on , our group was screwed over from the begining. *grumble* What would have been the boon, had you given it to me?
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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:15 am

Post by VisMaior »

The boon varied depending on who got it. Yours would have been a 1 time going trough docprotect, but since the doc was already dead, no boon was given.

I would like you all to give me some feedback. What could I have done better?
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:19 am

Post by stark »

Ahh, so the boon was specific to the different players! Eh, i think it came out well, the town was too smart though :P . Can we have the full choices and roles?
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:21 am

Post by VitaminR »

Btw, why kill VitaminR I?
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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:21 am

Post by stark »

You were giving of doc vibes IMO. aparently, i couldnt have been farther off :lol:
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:23 am

Post by VitaminR »

Hehe, that's why I killed Bacde.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:23 am

Post by VisMaior »

Full choices when I get home from "work".
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am

Post by VisMaior »

And TSAGod, you still did not nominate a successor. Luckily for you people even if he hadnominated stark, stark would not had enough nations to win.
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:28 am

Post by stark »

pfft, thats because everyone had stockpiled their nations far out of the reach of my greedy hands.
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:33 am

Post by draygn_mage »

I KNEW it! Wow, so this is what it feels like to make it to the endgame and win! I like this feeling! GG everyone. I had a great time Vis, I still want to boot outlaw for not speaking up to my hint whoring earlier.
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:32 am

Post by VisMaior »

Actually Im looking for your hints the whole game, and Im still missing them... Point them out for me please!
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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:43 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Huzzuh! Good choice VitaminR, and no, I wasn't lying about my claim. =P

Feedback, eh? I thought the game was very fun, and the land juggling certainly made for an interesting mechanic.

Thinking back, though, I probably should not have been replaced into this game: my original role as Hotel Manager was indeed very powerful (and I should not have drawn so much attention to myself on Day 1, D'oh!). I should have realized this before asking to be replaced into the game, but I figured since I didn't have any information on players it was a non-issue, so I will have to remember that for the future. It was difficult for me to allow Stark's claim to pass on Day 3, because I pretty much instantaneously disbelieved it, but I know I would have semi-believed it had I not had the role of Hotel Manager first, so I forced myself to go with TSAGod since he really wasn't looking that pro-town. I was honestly hoping I would be night-killed the day after for hinting that I was the Doctor, but Stark didn't fall for it. *shakes fist*

I too am interested in the additional "boons" for World Leaders, I think that made the game more interesting since we didn't know what to expect. The election/impeachment process could have been a little smoother, I suppose: I would suggest making that clearer to the players if you run a similar set-up again, I think we were slightly confused on Day 1 as to whether we were lynching or nominating.

I don't know very much about balancing issues, but I am taking it that there was no scum Godfather? Guess that makes sense since there are basically 4 scum, but I think the town was very fortunate to win this game, the Bacde/VitaminR crossfiring pretty much sealed the deal.

Gah, more later, I have classes in like twenty five minutes. Thank you for modding Vis!
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:53 am

Post by VitaminR »

petroleumjelly wrote:Huzzuh! Good choice VitaminR, and no, I wasn't lying about my claim. =P
Ah well...
petroleumjelly wrote:Thinking back, though, I probably should not have been replaced into this game: my original role as Hotel Manager was indeed very powerful (and I should not have drawn so much attention to myself on Day 1, D'oh!).
This is exactly why I felt it was unlikely that the Hotel Manager would have powers. You drew attention yourself in such a way that I thought you were a useless townie who wouldn't mind getting night-killed.

At first glance, the only criticism I can think of is that maybe it would have been useful to make it more obvious that the hotel manager was our doc. It would have been a completely different game that way I think. And it would have been more in line with the hotel detective since it was clear from his role name.
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:07 am

Post by VisMaior »

Roles:

TSAGod
You are Julius Tiberius Caesar. You are ruler of all Romans. Your people are one of the most clever of all time, inventing things like education (what a waste of time), architecture (worthless shiznit), and slavery (NOW WERE TALKIN!). Each night you may send me a name of a player. If that player is killed that night, you automatically enslave all his nations.

Dragyn_mage
You are Louis XIV. The sun king, of the French. You are in search of your ally, King Richard Lionheart of the British. Each night you send me a player’s name, if it is Richard, you two become masons, and may talk at day. You happen to be absolutely sure that Richard is innocent. If you PM him, send me a copy.

Outlaw
You are King Richard Lionheart. You are in search of your ally, Louis XIV. The sun king, of the French. Each night you send me a player’s name, if it is Louis, you two become masons, and may talk at day. You happen to be absolutely sure that Louis is innocent. If you PM him, send me a copy.

Sotty7
You are Alexander the Great. You are head of your world-conquering army of macedonians . They are not very clever, but they excel at killing. You may chose, once during the game, a player to kill off the nations of. Those nations will be dead. Victory conditions will be adjusted accordingly.

TINM
You are Queen Catharina, supreme leader of the Russians. You control the Russians, the other Russians, and some more Russians. In fact, you control so many of them that they count for two nations. So be careful who you trust them on. You are a townie deluxe.

ViolentJ1427
You are Hammurabi, king of the Babylonians. You believe in law and justice, that’s why you decided to refrain from violence, and settle everything according to the law. By lynching, that is… You are a townie.

Petroleumjelly
You are the hotel manager. Each night you may chose a player and assign to him a new room. That player becomes untargettable for that night by any night action.

Fritzler
You are the hotel detective. Each night you may examine one player’s room, and get a glimpse of his diplomatic mail.

Stark
You are sultan Suleiman. You are ruler of the Ottomans. You and your associates, Genghis Khan of the Mongols (Nightfall), and George Washington of the Americans (Bacde),have decided that this democracy thing is getting out of hand. You kill the leaders off one by one, and then divide the world amongst you (Of course, you will have the biggest part.) Each night you three may talk by email and choose a player to kill. You win if you are in majority or if you control at least 8 nations.

Nightfall
You are Genghis Khan. You are ruler of the Mongols. You and your associates, sultan Suleiman of the Ottomans (Stark), and George Washington of the Americans (Bacde), have decided that this democracy thing is getting out of hand. You kill the leaders off one by one, and then divide the world amongst you (Of course, you will have the biggest part.) Each night you three may talk by email and choose a player to kill. You win if you are in majority or if you control at least 8 nations.

Bacde
You are George Washington. You are ruler of the Americans. You and your associates, Genghis Khan of the Mongols (Nightfall), and sultan Suleiman of the Ottomans (Stark), have decided that this democracy thing is getting out of hand. You kill the leaders off one by one, and then divide the world amongst you (Of course, you will have the biggest part.) Each night you three may talk by email and choose a player to kill. You win if you are in majority or if you control at least 8 nations.


VitaminR
You are King Xerxes, of the Persians. You nurse a grudge against that excuse of a military leader Alexander the (Not-So-)Great, because he ransacked your country on his world-conquering spree. But those times are over, yessir, its payback time now!
You are the SK. You may chose a target each night to kill. You win if you control at least 5 nations. Should you kill off Alexander the Great,, all his nations will be assigned to you automatically.
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:11 am

Post by VisMaior »

The hotel detective was actually not simply a cop. Instead I rolled a dice each time I had to give him an answer.
1- no info
2- excerpt from a post
3 - night choice target/no night choice
4 - excerpt from role PM
5- alignment

Fritz got extremely lucky throwing a '5' 3 times.
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:14 am

Post by VisMaior »

Choices


N1

TSAGod slaver Bacde –survived
Dragyn_mage mason1 Fritzler –no
Outlaw mason2 Nightfall –no
Sotty7 intruder No choice
Petroleumjelly doc Stark-not attacked
Fritzler cop Nightfall –scum
scum Petroleumjelly -dead
VitaminR SK Sotty7-dead

N2
TSAGod slaver Dragyn_mage-not dead
Dragyn_mage mason1 -missed choice
Outlaw mason2 stark
Fritzler cop VitaminR SK
scum VitaminR died
VitaminR SK Bacde died

N3
Dragyn_mage mason1 Outlaw!
Outlaw mason2
Fritzler cop VitaminR II-protown
Stark scum Fritzler-died
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