Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[Grimgroove]

Oh yeah. Sorry about that. I kind of try to forget about that game, if we can call it a game. Felt more like a play staged by HD

I remember having a strong townread on you there (or at least on the hydra).

I don't have that here, though.

[shos]

well then,

Ghostlin

, you should claim in the first of your posts. fully.

this is an intent to hammer.

[mastin2]

[quote="In post 337, Lord Mhork"how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up![/quote] She's fine with being lynched by the quote I pointed out in which she admitted she was fine with being lynched.

Also, stopped showing up, if alignment-indicative at all, would be town, not scum. (It's probably null, as something outside Mae's control.) Because it shows that apathy. Scum are more likely to feel the pressure. Scum are more inclined to post like mad(wo)men in order to avert their lynch. Scum are more likely to fight their absolute hardest to avoid getting lynched, to survive just one more day to get closer to victory.

Haven't read your entire case yet, but with the above I disagree 100%. In my experience town shows a lot more indignation over being lynched, because they know some people are mistaking by voting them. When you're telling the truth and nobody believes you, it's far more frustrating than when lying and nobody believing you.

If you feel like you're being lynched by town players, you can show frustration as town. But if you feel like your mislynch is driven by scum, then no. (Mae felt like her wagon was driven by scum.) You'll accept it, because you know your mislynch can be weaponized to find the scum.

Hi. Those of you who know me are probably pissing and moaning that you had some really bad fucking luck to have me show up.

Quite the opposite, I'm ecstatic. Because you're probably one of the only players here who can prevent your idiotic mislynch.

Just read the towncase, it sucks. Far from what i thought you talked about.

Oh? And what did you think I was talking about, then?

[funkybike1]

well then,

Ghostlin

, you should claim in the first of your posts. fully.

this is an intent to hammer.

Didn't you attack me for doing the same thing? And you don't really need the huge text,

shos

.

Not unvoting though. And if you can come up with a reason my arguments are useless, I'll listen. Until then, you can stay in la-la land with your scumbuddy.

If anyone hammers before Ghostlin can post, they will be the next lynch.

[mastin2]

Not unvoting though.

If anyone hammers before Ghostlin can post, they will be the next lynch.

Does not compute.

[Lord Mhork]

[quote="In post 337, Lord Mhork"how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up!

She's fine with being lynched by the quote I pointed out in which she admitted she was fine with being lynched.

Also, stopped showing up, if alignment-indicative at all, would be town, not scum. (It's probably null, as something outside Mae's control.) Because it shows that apathy. Scum are more likely to feel the pressure. Scum are more inclined to post like mad(wo)men in order to avert their lynch. Scum are more likely to fight their absolute hardest to avoid getting lynched, to survive just one more day to get closer to victory.

Haven't read your entire case yet, but with the above I disagree 100%. In my experience town shows a lot more indignation over being lynched, because they know some people are mistaking by voting them. When you're telling the truth and nobody believes you, it's far more frustrating than when lying and nobody believing you.

If you feel like you're being lynched by town players, you can show frustration as town. But if you feel like your mislynch is driven by scum, then no. (Mae felt like her wagon was driven by scum.) You'll accept it, because you know your mislynch can be weaponized to find the scum.

Hi. Those of you who know me are probably pissing and moaning that you had some really bad fucking luck to have me show up.

Quite the opposite, I'm ecstatic. Because you're probably one of the only players here who can prevent your idiotic mislynch.

Just read the towncase, it sucks. Far from what i thought you talked about.

Oh? And what did you think I was talking about, then?[/quote]

Wrong. Not even close to right. If you feel like you're getting your lynch shoved through by scum, typically you fight it as well. Because townies don't want to be lynched. Because every townie lynch brings scum closer to victory.

Perhaps to you it's ok when you think that the wagon is entirely scum driven, but even then don't you at least make an effort to point out who's scum? To give all your information? If for some reason you are resigned to death, don't you at least make your last moments count. Mae didn't do this. Mae dropped off. She disappeared. This wasn't her boldly resigning herself to a lynch knowing that town would be able to find scum on her wagon. No that's just you projecting what is apparently your view on the matter and assuming she is like you in that respect. On the other side, people may not fight nearly as hard as you would with a wagon they believe is town driven. Don't townies tend to be more tunnelvisioned and focused than scum because they don't know and as such they compensate by being overly sure? The point is that you don't know what she was thinking. You only know what you would be thinking if you were her. That is not a solid town case.

And apologies for not focusing on the Mae case. My building's wifi completely went out last night right as I started it.

[Malakittens]

Oh yeah. Sorry about that. I kind of try to forget about that game, if we can call it a game. Felt more like a play staged by HD

I remember having a strong townread on you there (or at least on the hydra).

I don't have that here, though.

It's okay it was pretty bad having multiball in a micro.

I was barely posting, but if you do look back in our ISO -- look how fast Mastin was pinged by me.

--

So on the topic of drinks. As much as I'd love to I have a headache running on three days.
Drinks will make it worse

[Lord Mhork]

Broken quote tags suck, but whatever

Part One: Mae is relaxed in the early game
That is not alignment indicative. Many players as scum are extremely relaxed in the early game especially since they can write off anything they do as not being serious/being RVS/not mattering. Conversely many townies come in very strong and are super obsessive, focused, and wound up, perhaps wanting to exit RVS quickly or just feeling eager. This is null.

Part Two: Mae questions Mhork
This isn't anything. Town Mae has just as much reasoning as scum Mae to find an early game target. Town Mae to start the scumhunting search and scum Mae to search for potential mislynches. You can note that her questions are more of a probing nature testing the water rather than making accusations. While I suppose there's a chance that she is sincerely super calm about everything without a care in the world, it's so much more likely that she's looking for someone to see her minor questions, grab on, and let her ride their cases they build against me. That's a simple, relatively effective scum tactic. She paints a target and someone else goes after it, absolving her of guilt but achieving the mislynch.

And again, you're assuming you're playing with your clone/twin/doppelganger/whatever. You might act this way as town, but other people act this way as scum. What you would do in this situation is irrelevant. And scum Mae wouldn't necessarily push harder. Pushing means attention and until she's sure she has plenty of people agreeing that I look bad, what is there to gain by attention?

Part Three: But she isn't confident guize!!!
Your quote doesn't show her piecing anything together. All she's doing is noting a vote and calling it sheeping. That's just her trying to see if people are agreeing with her about me looking bad. And if scum are too confident, they could just as easily get called out because they already know who is town and who is scum. It's just as common a scum tactic to play like a total idiot, mislynch bait and hope someone like you comes along to white knight them to the end game. It's a matter of tactics. Everyone has different ones.

Part Four: Not making others do work
First of all quote is one of Mae's

Lies

, but that's for another time. Point is she isn't making other people do work for her, but she also isn't doing anything either. I've already pointed out that she was laying a foundation for someone to grab hold of. Why wouldn't she do it? Why was she waiting, lazily probing and testing the waters?

Part Five: The secondary lynch candidate
I would absolutely expect a scum player to point out that a bunch of people are holding her as a secondary lynch candidate. What does she have to lose. Not only does she throw suspicion on all those people away from her, but it also taps into a bit of AtE to get people on her side.

And how in the hell can you read that she's ok with that? Where in there does she say she's ok being a compromise lynch? You're reading into it substance that isn't even there. He tone is accusatory. She points out that she's a back up lynch amongst people and fingers them. She points out all the people who are voicing suspicion without voting her. Where are you getting this idea that she's fine being a compromise?

And that last line is absolute bullshit. She's not trying to figure anything out. She's throwing some slight slander at me. If she has read a single one of my posts, she'd have the answer. She wasn't reading though. She wasn't trying to understand. She was just trying to make people think I was scummy without actually doing or committing to anything.

Part Six: mastin takes the bait hook, line, and sinker
Yeah you're a sucker for buddying. You know why her thoughts seem largely along yours?

It's 'cause they are

. You were defending her and finally accepting the little foundation she was setting against me. Of course she is going to support you and say that I'm ignoring what you're saying and blah de blah blah. And as for the generic platitude that is 'people only do that when they have nothing to say'... please. Anyone can spew that trash. She didn't actually say anything new in that post. She just decided to buddy the shit out of you.

You're being hypocritical. Also you're still making up stuff and reading things that don't exist in the post. She does not--I repeat

she does not

--point out that she's doing the same thing. Instead she ignores that fact that I've been looking at other players, including (very obviously) shos whose wagon I had JUST gotten off of, and makes me look like a some heartless, scummy asshole cruelly trying to force a lurker lynch against poor little her. Nevermind the fact that she never even gave a reason as to why she was lurking so bad, nor would I really expect her to, just look at how much of that is made up or a misrepresentation of the facts. You're reading town motivation and town thought processes that again aren't there and are just reading that how you would expect it to be written if you were town in her position. Once more for good measure

she does not acknowledge that she is doing the same

.

I had given reads on other players long before this point, but whatever. Those aren't reads on GG or elle. That's literally just her giving an explanation as to why she's bitching me out instead of them. This could of course come from scum, especially scum that doesn't want to fight a multifront battle.

I can't believe you're falling for this. She's buddying you because you're the only player standing up for her. Of course that statement resonates with you: it's what anyone would think if they were getting buddied as hard as she was buddying you. Buddying is not a town tell. Not even buddying you. I see scum posting this. Definitely. In fact I would only expect town to post this once in a blue moon. She's not contributing to scum hunting; she's just giving you good feels towards her. Also you have no way of knowing that's legitimate paranoia. You're again making that up.

Part Seven: Tiredness a town tell?
I'm just gonna say you're wrong. That was applied as an AtE. So yeah. You're again reading things that aren't there.

tl;dr: Mae crumbed that she was scum back in 23

Just read the wall. It's that hard

---

mastin's town case for Mae boils down to her buddying him and him reading his own perspective in her posts and projecting what he would do as town in her actions. There isn't a shred of actual evidence in there, in fact most 'evidence' is false, made up, or just plain wrong.

There's still nothing to really indicate Mae town, so I'm still totally down with lynching Ghostlin.

[Lord Mhork]

[quote="In post 337, Lord Mhork"how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up!

She's fine with being lynched by the quote I pointed out in which she admitted she was fine with being lynched.

Also, stopped showing up, if alignment-indicative at all, would be town, not scum. (It's probably null, as something outside Mae's control.) Because it shows that apathy. Scum are more likely to feel the pressure. Scum are more inclined to post like mad(wo)men in order to avert their lynch. Scum are more likely to fight their absolute hardest to avoid getting lynched, to survive just one more day to get closer to victory.

Haven't read your entire case yet, but with the above I disagree 100%. In my experience town shows a lot more indignation over being lynched, because they know some people are mistaking by voting them. When you're telling the truth and nobody believes you, it's far more frustrating than when lying and nobody believing you.

If you feel like you're being lynched by town players, you can show frustration as town. But if you feel like your mislynch is driven by scum, then no. (Mae felt like her wagon was driven by scum.) You'll accept it, because you know your mislynch can be weaponized to find the scum.

Hi. Those of you who know me are probably pissing and moaning that you had some really bad fucking luck to have me show up.

Quite the opposite, I'm ecstatic. Because you're probably one of the only players here who can prevent your idiotic mislynch.

Just read the towncase, it sucks. Far from what i thought you talked about.

Oh? And what did you think I was talking about, then?[/quote]
not that hard

[shos]

As promised...

Spoiler: The town

They never even 'Oooh'ed or 'Ahhh'ed.

It's not better than an opera (yet), though.

My collection of Les Miseràbles cast albums is potencially embarrasing. Seriously, I'm missing very few of them.

Also, shos, it benefits scum in a way (less townies) but it also leaves them at a disadvantage (because every other townie is now suspicious of them). So there's that.

So, Mhork, won't you even give us a teeny tiny bit of your reasoning?

Your vote, maybe?

Yet you only voted after funky did. I don't think that makes much sense, but w/e. (b'-')b

the first is a joke. the second's first line is a joke. the third is ok, the forth is sarcastic. the last has a funny smiley at the end.

All these point to, as you hinted(or as it may have seemed you hinted, apparantly), a joyful approach to the game, *entirely* stressless, etc etc there was more I don't quite remember what I thought. but now you said it, entirely different, and your words are like mud in my drambuie.

[shos]

OMG haven't read 353+ that's a lot of walls lemme start after shower

[elleheathen]

You look as if you've seen a Ghost...

lin

So on the topic of drinks. As much as I'd love to I have a headache running on three days.
Drinks will make it worse

Drink with me... to ...headaches... gone by?

Mostly waiting on this incoming content from the replacement.

[shos]

@funky:

Here you have it. Mae, give me one good reason to not just hammer you and get it over with.

this? you think this is why I called you scum? lolno. even if, that is not what I did, lol. I asked for a claim, considering a replacement just came, and a replacement cannot negate scummy behaviour of its predecessor OR defend it, so may as well proceed with lynch. However, we don't want to just be lynching around whatever we want, so I ask for a claim; if he is scum, he'll probably have some trouble brewing a fakecaimw ithout reading everything(hopefully he doesn't read everything before he posts if he is..either way it's pressure) and if he is town then there's no problem. so a claim comes out and we can continue to think if we want to lynch according to the claim.

[shos]

Not unvoting though.

If anyone hammers before Ghostlin can post, they will be the next lynch.

Does not compute.

lol +1

reading mhork

[Ghostlin]

Here are the reasons why you shouldn't mislynch me:

1) I'm Jean Valjean, Town Bodyguard. I fucking promise you this problem will take care of itself by simple setup logic alone if half of you have a brain to execute it.

2) Has anyone been paying attention to the VC? It's like Elle and mhork have a double voter in the other player since VC 1.04. Their stances are almost identical to the point of...well, there are exactly two prospects on why that is the way it is, but in this small of the game, a voting block of one third the players (because GG has been voting similar to mhork and Elle) is pretty fucking suspicious.

3) Mhork is way too eager to pus this lynch to the point he's not only power tunnelling, I half expect the song 'There's a Hole In the World Tonight' to turn out to be the discussion of the push hardon he has against Mae. And #74, that thing you used to rebut Mae's assertion she's the only one you've called explicitly scum all game? THAT'S BECAUSE IN THE POST YOU CITED, SHE'S THE ONLY ONE BESIDES A THROWAWAY QUESTION YOU CITE AS SCUM. Read the post, folks.

The difference between Mhork and the rest of the Unholy Axis of Voting is that Mhork has pushed this to the point of opportunism. Elle, I could buy as town because Mhork needs a read to crib off of, and so GG. I'm still not buying the whole 'it's a coincidence' bullshit that one third of town has a voting bloc; I'm thinking one, maybe two of them are scum, and I find the interactions between Elle and Mhork...soft in the gut, but you guys want to flip me? Fine. The role's created to be disposable. But if you don't fucking look at who's on my wagon and the close, almost bizarre association that Elle and Mhork have set up for themselves DAY FUCKING ONE---this loss of this game I wipe my hands on.

I can't defend Mae--her play is admittedly pretty fucking dreadful--except to say the lack of engagement reads to me in a Town aspect as a player with a protection role that doesn't want to be outed. That said, that's almost newbie town and Mae's been around since 2009, so she might not be...good at this to begin with.

[Ghostlin]

You claiming your intent to hammer would be good.

Forcing him to claim while he's still not entirely with his head in the game should provide the most interesting result.

You're cute. I'm still working through the game, but I've given you some things to consider. Which you probably won't, because I sorta called you on some shit.

[shos]

well mhorks post was borken by quotes so it just looked long but in fact there's nothing to say to it.

I really don't like mala's post. by now, this is not the thing that I want to see in the game. Mala, you should really participate more. I'll hunt your meta down on weekend, if you did it in just one game of scum I WILL FUCK YOU UP (jk, just wanted to use that..)(but seriously, I'll get you)

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: Lord Mhork.

Right, so Mala, I'm really liking what Mae's selling, combined with Mhork's overall bad posting.

Put it another way--funky might feel like scum...but Mhork also not only feels like scum, but LOOKS like scum as well.

Short on time atm, but basically, I really want today to be Mhork vs. Funky (lean towards Mhork), rather than Funky vs. Mae. Funky vs. Mae feels funky. Doesn't seem right, doesn't seem natural. Also, I know I said (and Mae agrees) that Mhork vs. Funky can't be scum-scum, but I'm kinda getting a gut feeling today that, somehow, despite all logic pointing to that not being right, it actually is right. Hence, another reason why having the two wagons be Funky and Mhork would be better.

Hey.

Hey mastin.

Hey.

What's townie about Mae's posting? Her post was wrong and based in her making things up that didn't actually happen. Where's the town in her posting? Where's the town motivation in misrepresenting me?

I quoted this answer and response to make a point.

What would be closer to a town reaction to Mastin's 270 would be 'how do you think I'm scum again?'

Instead, Mhork went with the ballsier, but infinitely more scumtard, 'oh, yeah, the Mae townread is bullshit. I'm not going to redress the grievance, but fucking divert on how much I want Mae lynched, to the point that I'm going to ignore the negative association or any other mine-able points that exist in your post.'

[shos]

oha nd I forgot @funky: big letters so he claims before he reads the thread...that's kinda the point..

mhorks' posts are ok. OH the replacement got here! cool. let's read and not sleep!

[shos]

hmm. don't hammer. post 367 has a good point there against mhork.

Meh, BG isn't really a terrible loss; but I'm willing to let him live and see how he dies.. so I say lynch funky, but if you guys won't join before f\dl comes, I'll probably hammer.

[Ghostlin]

Maemuki-bv103 is my Day 1 guess for a scumteam. You guys have to pay me a tribute with a mix of Disney-songs after the game, if I am correct.

You're not, but you're talking about BV, who's posts at best are garden variety lurker, and at worst are scum lurker who didn't know what the fuck to do with his slot. In a role madness game, that's pretty fucking incredible.

[Ghostlin]

^This is actually giving me a Town-lean on Grimgroove despite my concerns on the VC; it doesn't fit the two scum reactions to a lurker, which is to ignore the problem, or do what I like to call 'GET THE FUCK IN HERE AND POST. SEE HOW TOWN IT IS THAT I'M PUSHING A LURKER TO POST??' Now, I tend towards the second as either alignment, but that's mostly because my town persona is deliberately constructed to be blunt and off-putting (probably a much more rude version of my base personality) and my scum persona generally is formualted to throw off towns. In other words, one is to cut through the bullshit, the other is to construct it.

[elleheathen]

Only read the claim up to this point so it may go back when done reading the rest but

UNVOTE:

ftm.

[mastin2]

I'd say, "Yo, Ghostlin, join me on Mhork", but your vote's already there, soyeah.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh Ghostlin is adorable. He's one of those players.

1) I suppose I'll buy that for now. A body guard is a nice, low powered role especially for a Role Madness setup.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

2) What do you make of the fact that elle and I have been voting together for awhile? You say that it's suspicious, but why exactly is it suspicious? Especially with GG too? We all have mutual town reads on one another last I checked, why wouldn't we vote together?

3) This isn't power tunneling. I've been stuck on Mae for awhile because SHE QUIT POSTING. If you read my posts, you'd see all sorts of angles I've been pursuing. There was Grimgroove. There was shos. There's still funkybike. And there's been Mae. How have I been tunneling? How have I been optimistic? Am I not allowed to point out suspicious activity once someone stops posting? Is that a free pass to scummy behavior?

So why can't all three of us be town? Why is that so impossible? Is it because we're voting you? You're acting just like mastin: 'this is obviously suspicious because I feel it in my gut why are you guys not feeling it too?'

That's very close to an Amish Tell along with the 'I'm disposable' that makes me have lingering bad vibes, but there are better targets than a body guard we direct if he survives the night.

In addition about my 'ballsiness,' if you read my posts up until then, you will see that I had been asking mastin about how he was so sure she was town. That's why I asked for the town in her posts; he had told me that mine had none. Don't try to sling mud. At least find something decent to use. Or better yet, help lynch scum.

Elle, bv or funky? I still find funky scum but I really don't like that bv dropped off the radar. What do you think?

PEDIT:
Did you even read my post, mastin?