Mafiascum.net

In post 349, TheIrishPope wrote:Bulbazak do you have a gun

Pope, that's not something you ask on the first date.

In post 348, TheIrishPope wrote:I didnt contradict myself though
You're voting me because you think I did?

You said you were voting F-16 as omgus but he was not voting you at the time. In fact he hadn't voted you since RVS

In post 24, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:VOTE: TheIrishPope

Why vote the innocent child?

You think that's RVS? With that tone?
And you don't need a vote on you to omgus someone

In post 350, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 349, TheIrishPope wrote:Bulbazak do you have a gun

Pope, that's not something you ask on the first date.

Mmmmmm interesting.

Bulbazak, I can't believe that you have no read on me - at all. I have made plenty of posts, pushed at scumreads, defended townreads really hard and have been one of the most active players in the game. In one way or another, I'd expect you to have a read on me or at least attempt to develop one. I find it very scummy that your entire read on me hinges on Pitoli's flip and is based on a very, very weak reason of Pitoli and I not being a scumteam since we wagoned TIP in RVS consecutively. It seems like you are trying to lead a Pitoli lynch and when she flips town, come for me. You don't seem to want to antagonize me just yet because you don't want to have me attack you when you have your hands full with Pitoli. You tell ETL that you are not "entirely convinced" I am scum which makes little sense. What makes even less sense is you not even trying to determine my affiliation. You tunnel on Pitoli while you try to set up a mislynch on me D2. After all, I made it no secret that I am suspicious of you. I sense that you want to finish off Pitoli today and 1v1 with me tomorrow.

Your case on Pitoli is junk. It starts at the beginning of the second page. You never once look back or consider the possibility that she could be town. It is based on you disliking wagoning in RVS. You admit that isn't a brilliant case on page 4 in post 84. Yet, you never look back, only finding more reasons to suspect her even though there are plenty of reasons to indicate that she is town.

In post 352, TheIrishPope wrote:

In post 24, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:VOTE: TheIrishPope

Why vote the innocent child?

You think that's RVS? With that tone?
And you don't need a vote on you to omgus someone

So you're telling me you had a sudden epiphany about a vote made on page 1?!? And instead of continuing to push a scumread, you decided to ~make a point~ about something long dead and gone?

I am not sure if the IrishPope is just a VI or scum. Bulbazak is a bigger priority.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Bulbazak, I can't believe that you have no read on me - at all. I have made plenty of posts, pushed at scumreads, defended townreads really hard and have been one of the most active players in the game.

Did anyone else find this odd?

In post 355, pitoli wrote:

In post 352, TheIrishPope wrote:

In post 24, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:VOTE: TheIrishPope

Why vote the innocent child?

You think that's RVS? With that tone?
And you don't need a vote on you to omgus someone

So you're telling me you had a sudden epiphany about a vote made on page 1?!? And instead of continuing to push a scumread, you decided to ~make a point~ about something long dead and gone?

I don't understand the question.

Whoa that's some serious white knighting of me going on there F-16.

In post 359, pitoli wrote:Whoa that's some serious white knighting of me going on there F-16.

That's not whiteknighting. Whiteknighting is when someone thinks suspicion on another player is justified because that player is playing badly - sort of like TPR doing for me.

I am defending a townread. I don't think you are playing badly. I think the suspicion on you is BS and probably scum-motivated.

Mmmmmm why is this townread so strong?
Make a case, and don't pussy out like purple rose did

I've never heard or seen that definition of white knighting used before.

I am going to defend townreads whether they like it or not. By making it more difficult for scum to lynch town, we narrow down their choices and make scum lynches more likely.

Ok, F-16 is town.

=20121&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]Scum game
=20121&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]Town game

His scum game is more assertive, more pushy, more "sure" of his reads. His town game shows the same self-consciousness we are seeing here. It's actually quite drastic of a difference.

goddamn i suck at bbcode.

Cool. Can we discuss reads now?

Also, you can't use ISO's as linked text because the square brackets interfere with them. I think just posting them separately would work.

Oh is that what I did?

Scum game

Town game

This is just the game links; if people want to check, they should just ISO, obviously.

And yes, F-16. Whatcha got.

FML.

I think you are town, and Pitoli is town. LastSurvivor is mod-confirmed.

That leaves two scum in {Sangres, Bulbazak, TIP, TPR, and ChaosOmega}. I am not sure where to go from there. They've all done things that make me believe they could be town or scum. Bulbazak's attack on Pitoli while hedging on me seems suspicious. In my experience town tend to be more blatant about their attacks (like you have been) while scum tend to be more subtle (like ffery or Bulbazak).

:
Bulbazak has been blatantly pushing Pitoli but it isn't townish enough to outweigh his dodging giving a proper read of me. He pretty much says that he will think I am scum if Pitoli flips town (and I am pretty sure she will) so it looks like he is setting up a lynch for D2. The one thing that most gives me a townread on him is the way he interacted with you about your scumread on TPR and tried to get you to back off. Now you have backed off and it seemed to work. I feel that as scum, he would let you get mad at TPR and allow the two of you to go at each other. His behavior is definitely "pro-town" as in it helped and benefited the town but I am not sure if that necessarily makes him town. After all, he could have done it for the towncred. I am not sure how much it outweighs his bad read on me.


TIP is very difficult to read. I am even sure at this point if he was actually lying earlier or just trolling. It is style that is easily transferable across alignments. I think I've read a few of his games in the process of meta-ing other players but haven't paid particular attention to him. I know for a fact that Cabd in Mafia Xenologue faked a scumread on him to get him lynched D1 while claiming to know his meta. He clearly is easily readable if you know what to look for and I am going to try and find that smoking gun to read TIP by reading through a bunch of his games. Null or now.


TPR is another player I don't seem able to read without help from meta. He/she now has one completed scum game (Saving the Riverdale Empire). You were in that game. What do you think? Is TPR playing similarly?


I haven't seen much from ChaosOmega except a bad case on Pitoli. Not sure whether that makes him scum. I'll wait to hear more.

I am most concerned about sorting Sangres (I feel that I can read fferyllt pretty well although I am bad at reading Nacho and always tend to scumread him). I feel that most of ffery's posts are rather meaningless. Her "interaction" with Bulbazak - I just don't see the point. It seems like she is trying to look useful and attempting to emulate her town meta by posting "cases" full of quotes and comments. On the surface, it seems like the sort of thing she would do as town. But I find that as town, she is a lot more passionate about getting the lynch she wants, sorting people and developing reads. It looks like she is trying to simulate that and failing - and then falling back onto the fact that she is in a hydra as an excuse. I also don't like cold brush-off and the "talk to Nacho" response when I backed off and attempted to reach out to her. I never got the impression that she wanted to sort things out.

Nacho's play has been decent and is making me have second thoughts about this slot. I can understand his townreads on you and me although I don't get his townread on TIP. I don't understand his FOS on Pitoli at all either. I am still waiting to see if he comes up with anything good when he returns.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Bulbazak, I can't believe that you have no read on me - at all. I have made plenty of posts, pushed at scumreads, defended townreads really hard and have been one of the most active players in the game. In one way or another, I'd expect you to have a read on me or at least attempt to develop one.

Actually, I was just putting you off to the side and seeing what developed. You're not the easiest person to develop an early read on.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: I find it very scummy that your entire read on me hinges on Pitoli's flip and is based on a very, very weak reason of Pitoli and I not being a scumteam since we wagoned TIP in RVS consecutively.

It's very rare for all of the scum to jump on the same wagon. I felt the premise was sound, especially for PoE reasons.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: You don't seem to want to antagonize me just yet because you don't want to have me attack you when you have your hands full with Pitoli.

To be honest, I haven't been paying much attention to you.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: You tell ETL that you are not "entirely convinced" I am scum which makes little sense.

Why does it make little sense? Does it bother you that I wasn't onboard the "F-16 must be scum" train with everyone else?

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: What makes even less sense is you not even trying to determine my affiliation.

My discussions with Sangres would show that isn't the case. You're just not a huge priority at this time.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: You tunnel on Pitoli while you try to set up a mislynch on me D2.

That would be quite a feat, considering I haven't been paying much attention to you.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: After all, I made it no secret that I am suspicious of you.

You have? This is the first I've heard of it.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: I sense that you want to finish off Pitoli today and 1v1 with me tomorrow.

I have no interest in 1v1ing with you. What gave you that idea?

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: Your case on Pitoli is junk. It starts at the beginning of the second page. You never once look back or consider the possibility that she could be town. It is based on you disliking wagoning in RVS. You admit that isn't a brilliant case on page 4 in post 84.

To be honest, Pitoli hasn't done much to give me anything to work with either way. There's an element of carefulness that I have a hard time associating with town.

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: Yet, you never look back, only finding more reasons to suspect her even though there are plenty of reasons to indicate that she is town.

Plenty of reasons? Name them.

In post 357, TheIrishPope wrote:

In post 354, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Bulbazak, I can't believe that you have no read on me - at all. I have made plenty of posts, pushed at scumreads, defended townreads really hard and have been one of the most active players in the game.

Did anyone else find this odd?

Yes. It makes me think I was wrong. I definitely hear a chainsaw revving up.

In post 360, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: Whiteknighting is when someone thinks suspicion on another player is justified because that player is playing badly

No, whiteknighting is when scum attacks a town player's attackers in hopes of gaining towncred later when said town player flips town.

Bulbazak, I am not going to quote again so I'll use numbered points:

1) Why am I not an easy person to develop a read on? I find it a rather odd comment considering my scum play and town play are very different.

2) You are using a very weak RVS-POE reason this late into the game. It was an RVS-wagon. I don't think scum would particularly care that they are on the same wagon.

3) It bothers me that you are hedging on me. You seem to be aware that I might end up being a "default" wagon for everyone to move their votes to, and so you decline to give a read on me in order to later vote me as a compromise. This lets other players like ETL take the brunt of the responsbility for my lynch absolving you of any.

4) Your discussion with Sangres is one that they have initiated. It wasn't a pro-active effort from you to determine my affiliation. They asked you questions and pressed you for answers and you answered them.

5) Why do you not care to read me or pay attention to me? I am a player in this game just like any other with just as much chance of being scum or town as any other player.

In post 347, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 338, sangres wrote: Thoughts on other wagons that may have drawn a scum vote?

Besides the TIP wagon composition, there really haven't been any other wagon compositions that have caught my eye. Was there one in particular you were concerned about?

No. I wondered if anything else had stood out to you.

In post 338, sangres wrote: So, you think pitoli is worrying more than a town player would.

Yes.

I thought the reaction was a little strong at first, because I think I've FoSed or voted her in all the games we've played together, except maybe the first (where she was scum). And part of Sangres I went after her pretty zealously in the Walking Dead game. I dunno. Maybe the fact that this time it was the Nacho half of the hydra added some extra weight to the vote.

If so, I should let him put down our vote all the time.