Open 538: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Wake1]

Lucky2u

I don't read his vote on MS.net as Scum at all. His dice thing was gimmicky and his random vote on Aptil I read as null. Up to his (113) I don't have any real problems with what he's said. His paranoia of my defense of him from ETL felt slightly Townish. Slight Townread on his (148). His sarcasm reads as null. His (178) troubles me a bit because he thinks I'm derailing aggression, when what he doesn't seem to understand is that I'm questioning actions I find suspicious. Big difference. His comment I read as slightly Scummy. His (180) doesn't appear to register the fact that I hate mislynching Townies as Town. His ignorance in this one reads more as null. I want an explanation for his naked vote on Gamsimbre (303). He does seem a bit Townish in (329) for asking about ETL's meta.

In spite of my overall Leaning-Town read on you, you haven't done much, Lucky. I want to see more paragraphs and arguments from you, instead of tiny quips and annoying sarcasm.

[Wake1]

Keybladewielder

Completely, utterly null.

[Wake1]

Kalimar

Come back here. Seriously. Null. You've parked your vote on me (12/19/13), and later said you'd be back today. If anything your prod-dodge reads you as slightly Leaning-Scum.

[Wake1]

Mr_Blonde

You've only posted three times. In general I read pro-dodges as slightly Scummy. Him taking issue with Lucky's dice gimmick reads sort of opportunistic, so slight Scum read on that (254), too. I don't particularly understand his vote on Aptil, but I do await his upcoming posts. Right now I have him as slightly Leaning-Scum.

[Does Bo Know]

@Zebe:

You didn't see Wake creating the argumentation?

You don't think Wake was posting fluffy stuff about his own playstyle?

I have already stated that I'm reading:
- Smudger as town
- BBmolla as town
- Lucky as town

throughout the thread and nothing has changed since I last mentioned my read on them. The rest of the players haven't posted enough for me to properly read them. I am thinking some scum are happily sitting in the lurkers while ETL, Wake, BB and myself are all fighting with each other.

Here's what I think this vote is. I think this is an opportunistic vote, and that Zebe is trying to fabricate reasons to join my wagon to justify his vote:
- not knowing my reads when I explicitly have said reads on players
- me creating argumentation when I tried not to get into silly arguments about playstyles and why Wake's questions seemed worthless
- also tries to justify why it's Town vs. Town, saying that no real result is presented, when that is not a sign of making something not Town vs. Town

He's doing this to make it sound like he isn't joining just for the wagon and the fact I've got a crush on ETL.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zebe

I'm thinking that if Zebe flips scum, Wake is a likely partner considering how Zebe is trying to say I have started the worthless arguments with Wake when he started it. (Yep, "he started it." We're doing this kindergarten style.) It seems like he's trying to keep the counterwagon on me so that the Wake wagon doesn't end up with his lynch.

He's doing this to make it sound like he isn't joining just for the wagon and the fact I've got a crush on ETL.

[Wake1]

Zebe

Not sure what to make of his first (143). Nothing particularly stands out in his first 5 posts. It's more or less just mild discussion on his reads. I sort of agree with his (349) about DBK and ETL. He should answer some questions and engage more, because there's something about his posts I can't put my finger on. I have him as a tentatively Leaning-Town.

[Does Bo Know]

@Wake: I want to thank you for actually reaching some conclusions. I really,

really

prefer reading the "player analyses" you're giving instead of the summaries you were trying to give earlier. Let me know when you're done so I can digest it (I've only read like one about a non-lurker and I like that style more than anything else you've done so far this game).

[Wake1]

Doing reads one at a time helps me focus. I still intend to use my Annihilator Beam correctly, as well.

[Zebe]

@DBK:
Both of you created fluff stuff, I'm not saying that you started it. I actually left mentioning Wake's participation deliberately to see how you'd react. I could accuse Wake from same reasons, if it would be my only point in this case.

More specifically, you were prolonging your argumentation with Wake (even derailing from that discussion with misunderstandings and whatnot: 200, 214, 222), even when you don't get any results from it (Still calling Wake null read). Other scumhunting being minimal or none at the same time.
This makes me see your motivations as scummy, as it helps scum to hide. I see no sign that you didn't want to enter silly arguments like that.

For your reads I haven't seen mention of Smudger or lucky townread. BB I forgot, sorry.

I've learnt to be careful when I see someone sheeping a lot.

[Does Bo Know]

I was hoping not to get detailed into his discussion because I was phoneposting, but he kept questioning so I set aside the time to analyze him like he wanted.

I was just upset because I didn't want to read all this stuff Wake was posting. Hoping to make it easier on myself to read what he's saying and not be bored to death.

Just checked my ISO. Where besides 209 and 213 did I go off on a tangent about playstyle? The entire time I'd been telling Wake I didn't know how to read him, would get to reading his stuff later (which I couldn't do properly and efficiently without a laptop), and why I wouldn't gather much from reading past games. How is any of that not relevant to scumhunting when I'm trying to read Wake?

(The sky-blue question was indeed a misunderstanding on my part, but its purpose was only supposed to take like 5 seconds to make a point that Wake never made.)

Just because I can't reach one side on a player with their posts doesn't mean it's scummy. Neutral reads do exist.

Also, I didn't outright state Lucky was town. But for some reason I remember posting it. Maybe I had it and then erased it because someone posted something else.

I didn't get a read on Smudger until recently but I KNOW I posted that.

I still think you're trying too hard to acquit me. What do you think of Wake?

[Wake1]

Does Bo Know

You've got the most posts here. Out of the gates, you wanted me lynched (12)(21). I want to know why. Whenever someone mentions that they're not that good at Mafia (27), my radar lights up, so you're slightly leaning Scum for that. You've followed ETL in voting for Lucky (71); that one incident is null so far. In (85) you say you get exactly where ETL is coming from; this is null for now, too. Yet in (156) you then follow ETL a second time, and vote with her against Gamsimbre. At that point I'm beginning to make connections, and am now waiting to see if I can predict yet another instance of you following ETL in the future. And it doesn't help how, in that very same post, you said you were going to wait with giving answers on why you voted Gamsimbre, but apparently you didn't get to it. You also said you hiding a reason, and that the rest of your reasons are outlined by ETL. But, you say you're too lazy to go back and look. I don't like that, because it's suspicious, and at this point I'm Scumreading you.

When I ask you about it in (157) you basically told me to shut up (162). And in spite of what you said earlier about your reasons, you say you're just sheeping her, and that anything she's said you basically agree with. In the same post you make it known that you're starting to get a solid Town read on her. These additional events pique my interest, and now I'm going to keep my focus on you. I'm reading you as Scum now. As Scum you've been downplaying my questions, because you know damned well you're in trouble. Just so everyone knows, you deliberately start downplaying my posts in (195), (199), (209), and (213). Town accepts questions head-on, because Town has nothing to hide and wants to actively contribute and share thoughts, reads, and reactions in order to unearth Scum. You kept making excuses to avoid doing so. I'm Scumreading you here, too. Lastly, your (211) was a cheap attempt to manufacture suspicion. You net a Scumread here, too.

Your (228). ETL voted for Lucky because his first vote didn't engage any of the players here, but was directed towards Mafiascum.net itself. You take a noticeably negative stance on my useful

Annihilator Beam

, and you softly hiss with disdain at the very idea, although in the same breath you say the method itself is good. And what's weird—where it really starts to unravel—is that even though the method's good and the questions are nice... you had just said that I started my little Annihilator Beam crap. That's not consistent, and then you complain that I haven't used it on everyone yet even though you think it's crap but the method and questions are good. Another thing in that post that's weird is that you say "I do think every answer in ETL’s (140) is a sufficient post that one could gather from the questions asked in their current format." Yet again you speak for her on her behalf: "Just so we’re clear, I think the point of ETL’s vote on Gam was because of that one post Gam made, and that ETL wanted Gam to post more to get a better read, not because she suspected Gam for not posting." What are you, her spokesman?

In (232) you're actually asking ETL if you two could *please* go back to voting Gamsimbre. (233) and (234) sees you commenting on voting for Gam. Your (236), like ETL's (235), feels incredibly fake and ephemeral. It's swept into oblivion as quickly as it came about, and it will take far more than that to deceive me if both of you are Scum. Likewise, your crusade against Gamsimbre fizzles out in (247).

(268), (272), (274), (275), and (277) are your chances as Scum to convince me to replace out. It failed. Yet again you follow ETL's vote on me . Yet again he speaks for ETL in (334).

My conclusion is that DBK is Scum. The tricky part is whether ETL is Town and he's buddying her, or if the extremely quick vote on DBK by ETL is indicative of them trying to distance themselve, or at least dispel suspicions of a pattern. It's more likely that DBK is buddying Scum, and if ETL is Town she'd be wise to consider this post and all of the examples I've linked.

You wanted a conclusion? That's a conclusion.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: DBK

I'm not 100 percent sure wake is town, but if he is I hope he gets night killed. His posts are so damn long to read. I could have written that post in half that length. Fortunately his logic is good. This is a solid day 1 lynch.

[Zebe]

I ISO'd and found you calling Smudger town. I didn't notice it before, I admit being wrong on your reads. I didn't see any mention about Lucky though.

The thing is, I'm not able to tell when you are supposedly phoneposting or not; I have to trust you about it, which is hard when I have a scumread.

In my point of view, you were posting pretty much redundant content while saying you aren't able to get a read on Wake. After that you gave up on gam voting relatively quickly. Even your most of your lately posts mention Wake in some form. You voted Wake while ago, before changing vote to me.
This all screams to me that you are pointing at Wake whispering "scummy, scum, scum", and once again having publicly null read on him. Distracting, I must say. Distractions are scummy, if not then anti-town at least.

Your ETL sheeping doesn't help at all.

My opinion on Wake? At first, I have to say that I find DBK + Wake both scum nonsensical. I know Wake meta, hard to read at times. I'm getting town vibes from his recent posts, I do also agree him in some points. I don't see him as conftown, but leaning town nevertheless. I don't dismiss the possibility of him being a scum, as I never do with anyone.

[Does Bo Know]

I was hoping I wouldn't get lynched today lol

[Does Bo Know]

What's my wagon look like now?

[Lucky2u]

I was hoping I wouldn't get lynched today lol

Not really a town statement.

What's my wagon look like now?

L-2, you concerned?

[Does Bo Know]

Get ready for the long quote walls that no one wants to read, gang.

Does Bo Know

You've got the most posts here. Out of the gates, you wanted me lynched (12)(21). I want to know why. Whenever someone mentions that they're not that good at Mafia (27), my radar lights up, so you're slightly leaning Scum for that. You've followed ETL in voting for Lucky (71); that one incident is null so far. In (85) you say you get exactly where ETL is coming from; this is null for now, too. Yet in (156) you then follow ETL a second time, and vote with her against Gamsimbre. At that point I'm beginning to make connections, and am now waiting to see if I can predict yet another instance of you following ETL in the future. And it doesn't help how, in that very same post, you said you were going to wait with giving answers on why you voted Gamsimbre, but apparently you didn't get to it. You also said you hiding a reason, and that the rest of your reasons are outlined by ETL. But, you say you're too lazy to go back and look. I don't like that, because it's suspicious, and at this point I'm Scumreading you.

- I believed BBmolla could've been a Night 0 cop because 1.) I didn't know BBmolla was a gambiter and 2.) I believe this is anorway's first modded game, so I wondered if the Night 0 claim was possible. I later realized it was a reaction test and kept my vote on you for more
pressure.
- Well I'm not that good at scumhunting, really. I'm much better at sheeping people by listening to all the scumhunting everyone else does and make a conclusion. Someone saying they're bad at Mafia doesn't make them scum.
- I voted Gam because I kinda understood where ETL was coming from and I wanted a new wagon. The answers I had people wait for? I explained that I was waiting on certain people to respond to the wagon, and saying that would reduce the results that could've come out of it. I never intentionally hide things unless there's a certain motivation behind that.
- I said the rest of the reasons I had for voting Gam were outlined by ETL because I didn't want to take the work to type up what somebody else had already said. What's the point in doing that? I'd rather cite sources and link you to them then type out sources. Except I was also too lazy to link you to them because all it takes is an ISO click.

When I ask you about it in (157) you basically told me to shut up (162). And in spite of what you said earlier about your reasons, you say you're just sheeping her, and that anything she's said you basically agree with. In the same post you make it known that you're starting to get a solid Town read on her. These additional events pique my interest, and now I'm going to keep my focus on you. I'm reading you as Scum now. As Scum you've been downplaying my questions, because you know damned well you're in trouble. Just so everyone knows, you deliberately start downplaying my posts in (195), (199), (209), and (213). Town accepts questions head-on, because Town has nothing to hide and wants to actively contribute and share thoughts, reads, and reactions in order to unearth Scum. You kept making excuses to avoid doing so. I'm Scumreading you here, too. Lastly, your (211) was a cheap attempt to manufacture suspicion. You net a Scumread here, too.

- I told you to shut up because it must've been the third time you asked this question without actually looking back at information already in the thread.
- I wanted you to vote Gam because I wanted a wagon on Gam. Wagons are good in early stages, and I still wanted a wagon to lure Zebe and possibly BB into.
- I'm downplaying your questions because they suck. You're asking why everyone was reading you some way. Usually, when someone doesn't know why they can't read someone else, they also don't know they can't read that person. You didn't fucking understand that. So I felt I had to break that down for you.
- Not all town accepts questions head-on. You keep thinking that Town always has to play a certain play and that they always

will

play a certain way but then why do we have mislynches? Because town isn't perfect.
- My 211 was a response to

your

cheap attempt to manufacture suspicion.

Your (228). ETL voted for Lucky because his first vote didn't engage any of the players here, but was directed towards Mafiascum.net itself. You take a noticeably negative stance on my useful

Annihilator Beam

, and you softly hiss with disdain at the very idea, although in the same breath you say the method itself is good. And what's weird—where it really starts to unravel—is that even though the method's good and the questions are nice... you had just said that I started my little Annihilator Beam crap. That's not consistent, and then you complain that I haven't used it on everyone yet even though you think it's crap but the method and questions are good. Another thing in that post that's weird is that you say "I do think every answer in ETL’s (140) is a sufficient post that one could gather from the questions asked in their current format." Yet again you speak for her on her behalf: "Just so we’re clear, I think the point of ETL’s vote on Gam was because of that one post Gam made, and that ETL wanted Gam to post more to get a better read, not because she suspected Gam for not posting." What are you, her spokesman?

- My negative stance on Annihilator Beam? Because I had no idea what it was? Why is this bad? But then after you revealed what this fucking beam shit was, I liked the method in a way. I still think the

name

is immature and pointless, but that's not relevant.
- A bunch of stuff that makes you suspicious of me because I can't wrap my head around your beam stuff? Ok.
- I have been trying not to interfere with those specific things of ETL (and trying to stop it in general), but you two were misunderstanding each other and I wanted the bickering to stop, so I tried stating facts that had already been stated.

In (232) you're actually asking ETL if you two could *please* go back to voting Gamsimbre. (233) and (234) sees you commenting on voting for Gam. Your (236), like ETL's (235), feels incredibly fake and ephemeral. It's swept into oblivion as quickly as it came about, and it will take far more than that to deceive me if both of you are Scum. Likewise, your crusade against Gamsimbre fizzles out in (247).

- I still wanted a wagon on Gam to try to see how Zebe and BB would react. But that didn't happen.
- Basically a bunch of stuff you're reading too much into, next.

(268), (272), (274), (275), and (277) are your chances as Scum to convince me to replace out. It failed. Yet again you follow ETL's vote on me . Yet again he speaks for ETL in (334).

- Oh God. You think I'm

scum

for trying to get you to replace out? FUCK. THAT. Jesus.
- Yeah, I followed the vote on you. I was getting sick of you not reaching conclusions or doing anything decent. And with ETL's vote, I thought a second Wake wagon could've done something.

My conclusion is that DBK is Scum. The tricky part is whether ETL is Town and he's buddying her, or if the extremely quick vote on DBK by ETL is indicative of them trying to distance themselve, or at least dispel suspicions of a pattern. It's more likely that DBK is buddying Scum, and if ETL is Town she'd be wise to consider this post and all of the examples I've linked.

You wanted a conclusion? That's a conclusion.

There's another word, I'm forgetting what it's called. But it's when a player reads only an ISO and intentionally reads everything scummy out of it because they're already in the mindset that I'm scum. That's what I feel like is happening here. Some things can be logically sound. But plenty of things in here seem to be going too far to be even considered scummy.

[Does Bo Know]

I was hoping I wouldn't get lynched today lol

Not really a town statement.

What's my wagon look like now?

L-2, you concerned?

- You'd be surprised.
- I don't know how concerned I should be, it depends on stuff.

Lucky's vote on me looks kinda fishy too, actually. I feel like Lucky should've voted me earlier instead of now if he thought Wake's logic was sound (which a lot of it shouldn't be). Knocks him back down to null.

[Lucky2u]

I think the word your looking for about the iso with already drawn conclusion is chainsawing isn't it? I never really knew what that term means but it seems like it could fit.

[Does Bo Know]

No, chainsawing is probably more applied to an incredibly strong defense.

I remember a game I was in way long ago that used that term, lemme go check that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why does evryom seem to not kno what is a chainsaw.....


If you r sxum an. Uddy is geting attackex you attack the attackwrd

[Does Bo Know]

I didn't mean "incredibly strong defense"

Chainsaw defense is a thing, and from what I can decipher, you're right about that.

ETL, are you too intoxicated or can you give some new conclusions since your last vote on me?

And I still can't find the word. But I know there is one.

[Does Bo Know]

TUNNELING

Duh

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is call confbias.and no.

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah I think Wake is tunneling me.