Prozac's Basic Theme 4 - Murder in Marlowe - OVER!

[pirate mollie]

hi matt

.UNVOTE:

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of Page 6....

spiffeh could be town. (reread post 60 for the 3rd time in context and i'm liking it a lot more, even more than i liked it reading it the 2nd time)

This is a really quick turnaround on a case that he was wholeheartedly pushing and summarily dropped.


For everyone, so is it normal now to just list out your town reads? Like I barely know how I feel about everyone else, other than pure gut, save for those that I am suspicious of. Not to mention that I haven't played here in forever, so even those that I played with before will take me a while to get used to again.


Whoa, that's a surprise. I'm agreeing with CKD in #159 on Marquis.

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

Opportunistic wagon a-go go.

Spiffeh isn't winning any town points for adding to the SC train in #167 and the reasoning in #152 is rather terribad.

one of these people on the Coug wagon tell me what this wagon on Coug is about?....thinking am missing it.

don't you find it the least bit strange that strangerkitty is only interacting with only like 2 pple? I mean that alone shld be noteworthy I wld think.

I for 1 am wondering why he is ignoring the person who started his wagon especially since I made a specific reference to a game we were in that he shld have picked up on. don't you find that weird?

This early in a large game, you kinda just roll with the conversations. It's kind of odd that you would bring up the number of people that SC has interacted with as a way to cast a shadow on him. As far as my read through after the fact, I see him interacting with more than two people. Given that this particular post was written in the middle of a Saturday, he could have easily had a busy day and just checked in when he could on the weekend. I, typically, take post day and time into consideration as I'm usually more active with mafia during week days than weekends.

Maybe you should take these thoughts and rephrase them into direct questions for SC. Going back to reading earlier, it didn't really feel like your vote on him was all that serious.


Looking at the vote count in #187, I'm not a big fan of this SC wagon.

StrangerCoug - 6 - Mollie, Marquis, Flameaxe, notscience, scotmany, spiffeh

It feels very easy and very opportunistic.



Notscience, you say in #193 that "the lack of a counterwagon" bugs you. Why?


Spiffeh vs SC is interesting. After this thorough read, I'm going to need to explore that one a little closer.


Marquis' #227 vote on CKD doesn't surprise me in the least. OMGUS at its finest. CKD saw quite a bit of the same things that I saw in Marquis. The listing of town reads (which I don't remember much of a few years back) really seems to be a way for scum to try and look like they are adding to the game, but also as a way to make villagers look scummy for not listing their town reads. It's a strange tactic, and I feel, given that no one else did a full out list of reads that Marquis just did it to garner some town points. I'm already not feeling Marquis so this straight OMGUS vote back on CKD doesn't help him in my eyes.

i don't like how you're trying to throw out extremely stretchy associatives between me and spiffeh on page 7, after you've criticized my own stretchy case

Also, this is a strange reaction to my post. What exactly dont you like about the above? You made a stretchy ass case on spiff, but then abandoned it for little to no reason.

to me..that seems like you really didnt believe it (seems like theater). IF Spiff DOES flip scum, that vote/unvote is suspicious. So that I am clear, you dont see how ANYONE could view that suspiciously? Now in that same post, I mentioned..."hey it's day 1..everything is stretchy" but the timing in which you unvoted seemed....off...and this reaction...more so.

VOTE: ckd

Catboi, what about that post garnered your vote? If you already answered this for someone else, can you link me to the post? Thanks.

I am never a good lynch on d1, ever, even if I am scum.

How is this even considered a defense? We could all say the same of ourselves.

In regards to #244, I find it fairly scummy to refuse to answer questions, even if you deem the asker as scum. I'm not sure why that devolved into a history of your past games with SC, as it feels to be an all-over the place reasoning for voting him. Additionally, your initial vote carried none of this with it.


Ending at the bottom of Page 10

[pirate mollie]

I see what you are saying...but it remains to be seen if it is valid. I used to play a lot and then took like 3 years off. Now I play and just one game at a time. I mention this, because I havent really seen what you are talking about i my recent games. As a matter of fact, i have seen motives align with what I am saying. When a guy comes in and starts talking about who he thinks is town for no reason based on jack shit, it tells me a couple things (which I have already stated). Bottom line, he is trying to earn friends and no good can come of it.

I dont want to go into game theory here (I started to write out a long example). We can discuss end game if you really want to do a back and forth. Unless of course you are scum, then I imagine the above post is probably BS for game purposes. I am pretty firm in this belief. and for now, I will "believe" you are too.

I see where you are coming from too, that is why i called notty out on the 7 townreads with no reason nor stating who they were. after our exchanges I feel a little bit more comfortable with him but I am keeping my eye on him only cos I know he has been working on his scum game.

I think some of marquis's and notty's early townreads are naive, not scummy.

and yes I wld like to discuss game theory postgame altho i feel like some things are kind of relevant to what's going on now. my approach is going to be to build town cohesion early, even if scum have snuck into my townpile you can at least try to get them to bus. I have been saying this forever that sometimes that is the only way you can get scum lynched on this site is to convince them it is in their best interest to cooperate.

[catboi]

ckd's pushing on the townreads thing still bugs me but i need to catch up first

[pirate mollie]

I don't really feel like starbuck is reading my posts, he is skimming and cherry picking.

I donnae like it.

[Starbuck]

I don't really feel like starbuck is reading my posts, he is skimming and cherry picking.

I donnae like it.

I'm reading, but also remember I'm doing a big catch up at the moment. If there's something that you'd like me to pay particular attention to, please guide me that way.

[pirate mollie]

This early in a large game, you kinda just roll with the conversations. It's kind of odd that you would bring up the number of people that SC has interacted with as a way to cast a shadow on him. As far as my read through after the fact, I see him interacting with more than two people. Given that this particular post was written in the middle of a Saturday, he could have easily had a busy day and just checked in when he could on the weekend. I, typically, take post day and time into consideration as I'm usually more active with mafia during week days than weekends.

Maybe you should take these thoughts and rephrase them into direct questions for SC. Going back to reading earlier, it didn't really feel like your vote on him was all that serious.

I made a whole big giant post about why i think sc is scum. I feel like you are making the weirdest excuses for him while dismissing my case.

hey if you think it is stupid just say so. but what you have said here makes me think that you didn't pay particular attention to my post at all.

Marquis' #227 vote on CKD doesn't surprise me in the least. OMGUS at its finest. CKD saw quite a bit of the same things that I saw in Marquis. The listing of town reads (which I don't remember much of a few years back) really seems to be a way for scum to try and look like they are adding to the game, but also as a way to make villagers look scummy for not listing their town reads. It's a strange tactic, and I feel, given that no one else did a full out list of reads that Marquis just did it to garner some town points. I'm already not feeling Marquis so this straight OMGUS vote back on CKD doesn't help him in my eyes.

have you played with dgb before?

In regards to #244, I find it fairly scummy to refuse to answer questions, even if you deem the asker as scum. I'm not sure why that devolved into a history of your past games with SC, as it feels to be an all-over the place reasoning for voting him. Additionally, your initial vote carried none of this with it.

if you read the entire sentence all the way through, you wld see that I gave pretty plausible reason to not respond. I wanted a meatier discussion with ckd and I think he did too that is why he made the statement that he did. our relationship has evolved.

I think if there is any buddying going on I think it is you who is kissing ckd's ass and not even bothering to read anybody else except on a surface level.

[Starbuck]

Heh, if you knew me at all, you'd know I wouldn't go anywhere near ckd's ass.

[Starbuck]

Anyways, back to the major catch up. I'll address mollie's ridiculousn self-defensiveness when I get through that.

[Spiffeh]

This is a really quick turnaround on a case that he was wholeheartedly pushing and summarily dropped.

This is a pretty large overstatement since he said himself that it was a pretty bad case right from the get-go.

[catboi]

guys Davsto needs some motivation can people plz provide him some motivation

I don't think wagoning the new guy for not knowing what to say is particularly productive.

gimme a bit to settle in. reminder to self to check spiffeh first though

legitimately pretty confident spiffeh is town at this point. Him seeing I'm playing differently from the other game we played in, and assuming I must be scum because of it, feels like it's genuine cognitive bias. I don't know that he'd try to fake pressure on me like that as scum.

For everyone, so is it normal now to just list out your town reads? Like I barely know how I feel about everyone else, other than pure gut, save for those that I am suspicious of. Not to mention that I haven't played here in forever, so even those that I played with before will take me a while to get used to again.

This question vs. ckd's response to people naming town reads feel worlds apart. There's legit curiosity here, not grandstanding and trying to paint a behavior as scummy without examining the motivations of those doing it.

Anyway, I haven't really played here that much, but I think townhunting is a perfectly valid and legitimate strategy, so long as it's done properly - real towntells are stronger than scumtells, and process of elimination works for weeding out scum. I'm used to smaller games but I think in a large game it's harder to bear down on specific people as scummy with so much to read. If you get some good townreads and lynch everyone who you're unsure of, you'll win. Assuming you pick them for good reasons, anyway.


I don't know that I necessarily agree with every townread that's been said but I want more to look at things myself rather than nitpick at a read I don't understand.

[notscience]

mollie I am not scumreading bins

I wanted her to start doing things because she is high on my priorities to sort. I am kinda leaning town on her but I'm in the same boat you are regarding her.

[Aj The Epic]

I would like to

hear AJ's response to the cases presented against SC

because he seems to have disappeared ever since the wagon picked up steam.

What? That's not my responsibility. My interest is you and your inconsistency, not SC.

[Aj The Epic]

Like goddamn, that's actually terrible. You're just trying to tie me to someone you're already daedset on lynching. Really, where are you getting these statements?

[Spiffeh]

Yes those are fantastic excuses for not contributing to discussion keep it up.

[Spiffeh]

Even if you suspect me that does not excuse you from avoiding the elephant in the room like you seem to want to.

[notscience]

Notscience, you say in #193 that "the lack of a counterwagon" bugs you. Why?

Because I felt like if SC was scum there would at least be some counterpush to that.

[catboi]

I don't think that's necessarily true

[pirate mollie]

Anyways, back to the major catch up. I'll address mollie's ridiculousn self-defensiveness when I get through that.

yes. by all means plz point out how pointing out that you are skimming my posts is somehow "ridiculousn" self-defensiveness.

Heh, if you knew me at all, you'd know I wouldn't go anywhere near ckd's ass.

I bet you even tried to say this with a straight face.

[Spiffeh]

AJ what inconsistency are you referring to? I have addressed all of your concerns and explained myself multiple times. If you are still unsatisfied, why aren't you trying to continue our dialogue to actually suss out my alignment? The way you just abruptly stopped responding to me makes me think you never had any intention of being open to reevaluating in the first place.

If you are town and think I'm scum, you would be fighting a lot harder against the SW lynch. You say nothing about it as he gets wagoned to oblivion, and when asked directly about the situation you refuse to comment on it.

I'll let the sub catch up. You can have my vote.

VOTE: AJ

[Aj The Epic]

Spiffeh, you're mad that I'm not answering against the cases on SC. The fact that you are consistently trying to tie me to him is not concerning at this point, it's blatantly scum.

P-edit: You've addressed nothing at all. You keep changing the topic until I get bored of restating it. Look here:

I then proceeded to direct him to a post I made literally eight minutes after the one he was so offended by that actually did respond to Marquis case on me. His whole point in voting for me was that I brushed off Marquis' case which IS NOT TRUE.

Sure but that's not what you said. What was your initial statement:

Like I said, I don't see how SC can get a solid enough scum read from Marquis' admittedly weak case on me to vote,

Based on?

I'm asking you specifically WHY you think SC was using Marquis' case as an excuse to vote for you when he stated he didn't like your response. But instead of answering this, you just go:

Based on how he couldn't make anything of his wagon or any other player in the game when I asked him to.

You're completely ignoring the fact that I'm asking you why you aren't stating why SC actually voted for you multiple times and instead explaining everything I didn't need. NOTHING HERE answers my question. So let me lay it out to you:

Why did you lie about what SC's original vote on you was based off of?

[notscience]

mollie why did you unvote matt?

[Spiffeh]

@AJ I responded to that here:

I pointed out a post that immediately disproved his initial reason for voting for me and since he kept his vote so I assumed that he agreed with Marquis' case. I mean he never further justified his vote so what am I supposed to think?

I even laid out my thoughts throughout the whole situation chronologically in post 223 so you don't get to say I didn't answer your question.

[Spiffeh]

And I STILL want your thoughts on the SC cases. I don't know why this is such a touchy subject for you.

[pirate mollie]

mollie why did you unvote matt?

cos in the last forum game that matty and I played together it was with my hydra with dgb and matty thought that what dgb was posting was coming from me so he wrote a 3 paragraph essay detailing the reasons as to why he hated me and when dgb corrected him all he said was "oh".

we have since met in person and I adore him and trollie too but I am not sure where we stand in games but I am sure he wld have an easier time sinking his teeth into the game w/o me personally breathing down his neck. I am just giving him space, it doesn't automatically change my read on the slot.