Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[Sephiroth]

Specifically, what made you say that you don't think its coming from an informed position.

[Katyusha]

Like with n_m, “L-1 and claim” is basically saying “this guy needs to die if he keeps this up” as I understood HEM. I think he was more trying to provoke me to get a read out of me when he was asking me about Bu’s intent.

^ I think these are both plausible explanations for why town!HEM would do so with both n_m and Flubber respectively.

If there's a plausible explanation either way, it's null unless there's a reason one is more likely. For me that reason it's more likely town is basically the rest of HEM's play

most notably i think is his trajectory onto hopkirk and further interactions i think shows he was thinking about the game uninformed and scumhunting, and also made a lot of sense to me.

[Sephiroth]

So you're saying that you dont consider HEMs calls for quicklynches and claim scummy within the overall context of his posting. Got it. I find it odd that you brought up uninformed vs informed in this context, since I don't think it was directly relevant and it took you a while to answer. Personally I don't think HEMs push onto hopkirk holds much water under close examination, since he brings up WKing without acknowledging that we don't know anyones alignments. Its only WKing if you can know that the person WKed is town. IE hes hinting he knows someones alignment by pushing the WK argument so early in the game. But as with sheep you are entitled to your opinion.

[sheepsaysmeep]

what's wk
also btw
this isnt an opinion, there's no way you can meta scumread ucv rn

[Katyusha]

I brought up uninformed/informed when I guess scum-motivated vs town-motivated would have been a better way to articulate it.

HEM's push started with "if flubber's town, who's scum" as I understand it which is why he picked hopkirk, but I'm looking more at how the read evolved into something stronger and not reliant on flubber's alignment.

if i'm not explaining your read correctly HEM you're free to correct me though

what's wk
also btw
this isnt an opinion, there's no way you can meta scumread ucv rn

wk = white knight, meaning should be kind of clear but it's basically when scum defend town without really trying to dismantle the push

[Sephiroth]

To build on the definition, its kind of like the opposite of bussing. Scum do it for town cred by then saying "BUT IF I WAS SCUM I WOULDNT HAVE DEFENDED THAT PERSON WHO LFIPPED TOWN"

[Sephiroth]

Do you disagree that claiming someone is WKing at that point in the game suggests you have more information than most other players?

[Sephiroth]

To me thats a scum slip.

[Sephiroth]

Also, youve heard of Occam's razor, yes? Just in regards to how much benefit of the doubt you're giving HEM.

[sheepsaysmeep]

i see where youre coming from with it being a scum slip
personally i think it wasnt an accident that hem used the term whiteknighting, probably either wrong usage or by poe reads or smth

pedit no i havent heard of that

[sheepsaysmeep]

well now i have

[Sephiroth]

Lol sheep you always think I'm talking to you. I'm talking to Kat haha.

[sheepsaysmeep]

lol
everything's abt me D:D:D:D:

[Katyusha]

Strongly, especially if your thought process going into a reevaluation is "well if that person I'm scumreading is town, then who would be scum?". Most people will be looking at their reads or just going by what feels right, so if theoretically someone had a townread and felt that someone else was defending them in a scummy way, it'd be fair to call that a white knight. I'd even think it's fine if you didn't townread whoever was being white knighted, especially because scum could just be poorly defending a partner.

If the Occam's razor's directed towards me, occam also says that HEM's calls for quicklynches are coming from town - I put more stock into how someone is engaging with the thread and figuring things out than anything else and HEM has been giving a lot of that in a good way to me. I've seen town do plenty of anti-town things that I don't think it's that great to read off of that alone.

pedit: lmfaooooo

[Sephiroth]

occams razor would suggest that he wants a quicklynch because quicklynch benefits scum =/

[Sephiroth]

You're making up wifom explanations for something that is inherently anti-town (by your own admission).

[sheepsaysmeep]

wait can someone talk to me im so lonely
im not motivated to read yet

[Sephiroth]

I didn't get too much rereading if I'm being honest. If you want to talk to someone ask some questions.

[Katyusha]

Occam's razor would also suggest that he feels that getting n_m to L-1 and giving intent to hammer Flubber would pressure them strongly and hence is town

But I see your point there

pedit: It's not wifom, I genuinely think that this makes more sense coming from town lmao.

wait can someone talk to me im so lonely
im not motivated to read yet

do you think it's unreasonable i'm townreading seph and HEM here

[Sephiroth]

Occam's razor would also suggest that he feels that getting n_m to L-1 and giving intent to hammer Flubber would pressure them strongly and hence is town

But I see your point there

I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what the simplest explanation is but I'm happy to drop it for now. You're probably town but I find your town read on HEM surprising even after hearing it explained.

[Sephiroth]

Would love to hear more from inter and something from schism would be nice.

[Not_Mafia]

Don't like UC's lurking

[Sephiroth]

Hes scum so yeah, that makes sense.

[Sephiroth]

probably

[sheepsaysmeep]

i mean
i personally find it annoying when ppl say tr'ing two ppl who attack each other is inconsistent or smth
ive only skimmed seph's push but it's perfectly possible tvt so i wouldnt call you tr'ing both unreasonable
i skipped the hem chunk so im null on him for now but seph's reasoning appears more town line of thought atm

pedit i guess we can just wait until prods