In post 344, UrVeggieM8 wrote:Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.
In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.
eth0s has the three most lynchable players in his scumpool. Airan was playing a trademark scum game.
How are his intentions pure?
lol my intentions are gonna be pure now that I took you off the table for today, I feel that much coming.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:56 pm
by UrVeggieM8
In post 339, Spangled wrote:They say that sometimes when someone reps in as town, you can almost know that they’re town almost immediately; I have felt this before and I’m (almost) feeling it now.
Which honestly conflicts with my gut-feelings on Airan, and this is a weird feeling — one gut-read with stuff backing it up vs another gut read with some stuff backing it up.
But I’m definitely erring on the side of town!eth0s, and this is, by and large, because of his read on Veg — he goes against the flow here, where there had been a narrative proposing scum!veg building prior to my Airan case, and it also agrees with my read on Veg in a way I can understand.
And I can see Airan as newbtown making those posts, and, honestly, I’ve come to realise that I’ve only seen Airan from the perspective of ‘this is newbscum and here’s why’, rather than thinking about whether or not newbtown could make those kinds of posts too. And newbtown... could, I think.
It annoys me, but I think this is probably town. UNVOTE:
And the game thread really did slow straight down when the Airan-wagon started CFD’ing. Like maybe that’s not indicative of much because Airan wasn’t here, but I feel like scum was either on the wagon or waiting for a good excuse — further arguments for scum!Airan or a sucky defense from him, I imagine — to hop on.
I do kinda feel a bit buddied though dude. Why do I feature so much in your catchup?
And if we lynched faüstiv today and they flipped green, who would you think would be the scumteam then?
Y'all are posting too fast for me to keep up! Ethos has pretty much answered this already, but was about to ask Spangled how they feel about Spam atm and whether they think looking for potential scum-buddies for Spam would be a viable option.
In post 344, UrVeggieM8 wrote:Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.
In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.
eth0s has the three most lynchable players in his scumpool. Airan was playing a trademark scum game.
How are his intentions pure?
lol my intentions are gonna be pure now that I took you off the table for today, I feel that much coming.
Not really.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:08 pm
by eth0s
well you're welcome because you aren't getting lynched today anyway
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:08 pm
by eth0s
i'd love to see you challenge anything that I said or provide any reasoning whatsoever for how I'm scum, but I know that isn't gonna happen.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:09 pm
by eth0s
also congratulations on remembering how to use vote tags
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:31 pm
by UrVeggieM8
@Ethos
After reviewing Egix's and Spam's ISOs, agree with you that they haven't directly interacted, though there are some points from Egix where they indirectly refer to Spam. I've commented a bit further within the spoiler tag.
In post 24, Airan303 wrote:I find it scummy because instead of voting for anyone else to check reactions, he voted for someone who had already been voted for.
I am not saying spam is a scum, or that you should vote for him. I am just saying that what he did was scummy
I mean, from what I've seen, RVS bandwagoning is fairly common on this site.
So I personally wouldn't consider it scummy, it's just a site meta thing.
Not entirely sure if I could go so far to say that this is scum defending scum and it just so happens that RVS bandwagoning is common? If I had any arguments for Egix and Spam being a scum-team (apart from that they haven't directly interacted), this would literally be the only piece of evidence I could come up with and tbh
I'm
not even convinced by it. If there's something you (or anyone else) picked up that I haven't, I'm definitely all ears.
In post 63, Geyde wrote:@Egix96 where's your head at in regards to the thread?
I don't see real solving from your posts
In my opinion, the game hasn't really yet progressed far enough for me to form any solid reads yet, but based on some ISO-reading:
Airan - They remind me a bit of how I was in my first-ever game (Newbie 1890), in that they seem... well, actually I'm not sure how to put it in words. Maybe it's because, like me, they started their first game with a scum rand, but I don't really feel strongly about that. I'm aware that Jamelia "love[d] that [they were] being 'paranoid'" but to me, 39 is a good example of what I'm talking about here.
Draynth - Not really seeing much in the way of alignment-indicative stuff from him yet. Most of his play so far has simply involved asking questions (also his 'quick tip' in 17) so I would consider him the de facto IC of this game (the Newbie game kind, when those were still a thing).
faustiv - I would like to see more from them first.
Geyde - I think that 62 is a +town observation, though it remains to be seen whether I will end up agreeing with it or not.
Jamelia - Probably not scum with Airan based on first sentence of 47. I can imagine the rest of that post being said from one scum to another, but not the first bit, I think that would just be way too corny
Individually though, not yet sure what to make of him.
NMSA - 56 feels a little bit reachy imo, but I guess that that can be at least partially justified by it being that early in the game. Nothing else from him pings me though.
I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but
I will consider it.
" Seems non-committal and maybe self-contradictory?
Veggie -
I notice that, like Jamelia, they also end a lot of their sentences with exclamation marks - how has Spam not picked up on that?
But I digress. 66 I will admit is not a bad post, but I wouldn't say that it's "the best question asked so far" as Spangled put it... and Airan agreeing with that is... eh? But again I digress.
So with all that said,
UNVOTE: VOTE: Spangled
If Spam and Egix were a scum-team, I don't think Egix would have made the underlined comment. I believe it would draw too much unwanted attention to a scum partner.
My prior thoughts on him still apply, but with two additions:
a)
I find it selective that he applies the 'too many exclamation marks' tell to Jam, but not to Veggie
(ofc this is a small digression that I made in my thoughts on Veg, but I was going through the ISO of each player in alphabetical order so it was initially missed)
b) I find it disappointing that he has made only two posts since I made my wall, both of which are simply him giving advice to other players.
Egix makes a similar comment to the one in 75. Unless they're a pretty ballsy scum-team, I don't think scum would risk drawing unwanted attention twice.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:36 pm
by eth0s
I think those are really safe points to bring up for potential distancing but I will admit that I missed those when I checked the ISO's. And I don't think there's anything I saw that you didn't, it was the
lack
of interaction that pinged me.
I'm still not sold on that scumteam either but I feel like there's a decent chance the whole team is in {nmsa,egix,faustiv}.
I think nmsa is the link that that needs to go today, and then finding out where to lynch tomorrow will become easier with some flip info and potentially NKA. although I generally find NKA to be wifom-y and not that useful I think it holds more weight in newbie
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:39 pm
by eth0s
I also really like how faustiv disappears when I ask him to challenge anything I said or how I'm scum
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:42 pm
by eth0s
I think if he wasn't faking the not knowing how to use vote tags thing then he is worried about being the one to put me to L-1. he backed off earlier when I was L-1 and now he hops back on when spangled (the person who he sheeped to vote my slot in the first place, mind you) backed off. So now he doesn't have to be the one to put me to L-1.
^the part in parenthesis is really funny btw
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:59 pm
by UrVeggieM8
VOTE: NMSA
L-1
Based on the below post:
In post 344, UrVeggieM8 wrote:Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.
In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.
Which I concluded based off a combination of my own logic and this post:
Spoiler:
In post 334, eth0s wrote:These will be kinda low effort compared to what they could be because I have been on site doing too much for too long today, I will elaborate on any given read if needed/requested or perhaps even without such if I feel it would be helpful shortly.
spangled(TR) - playing his town meta to a T, asking game progressing questions, genuinely doesn't want me to be scum because he knows what we are capable of together as town
veggie(TR) - a lot of the same reason as spangled but notably I mind melded with him more than anyone else on my catch up and is taking stances that would just be "putting himself out there" too much as a scum, IMO
jamelia(TL) - obviously I didn't originally TL him but through his interactions with faustiv and NMSA (my working idea of the scumteam) he has proven himself to have little partner equity with either of them, NMSA moreso than faustiv, I think, but regardless, I now understand that his limited voting is NAI or potentially town-indicative of his slot and therefore a lot of my basis for a scumcase on him has gone out the window.
geyde(null/town) - I have paranoia on this slot mostly for the stances he had on RVS, leaving RVS, and how it seemed like he was trying to do more than he should based on the state of the game (admittedly I didn't read his meta references and likely will not, but posting them without being prompted made me feel a bit weird in the first place). I don't think it was overly scummy but I'm always worried about opening play like that because I hate being rekt by scum that play smart and actively. There was also something I think spangled said about him in regards to setting up for a "gotcha" moment and that resonated with me. However I like most of his stances overall, decent mindmeld, and he is both thorough and critical of things such as wagon formation that I don't usually see coming from scum.
draynth(null/town) - hard for me to read this slot and it's mostly based on meta (the one game I played with him where we were both town) and most of his posts are actually kind of forgettable to me. In a way I think his play this game is pretty close to geyde's as far as their approach goes, but draynth has been not quite as active, although not to a fault. I had a really hard time reading him as town in our last game together, where he was town, but he has stepped up the effort in this game it seems like, making longer, more analytical posts which generally gives me townvibes but I am also slightly skeptical of since it doesn't match what little I know of his townplay.
egix(null) - not a whole lot to say about this slot, really. he got on my wagon at a somewhat opportunistic time, although kind of prompted to do so by Draynth. initially did not like spangled but then kinda sheeped his vote without adding much to it. Also somewhat shaded NMSA and stated disapproval towards him while keeping a vote on spangled. That's not super valid reasoning to scumread him given the context of his reads on each of those players but the potential distancing from NMSA in 75 pings me the wrong way. With that being an early readslist it doesn't really feel that valid to use as an argument. Overall I agree with the sentiment someone stated about him potentially "coasting" this game and would like to see some original thought from the slot other than just pointing out mechanical errors, making puns, and posting things that seem really fencesitty.
nmsa(SL) - not gonna lie most of my reasoning for scumreading this slot is based on what others have said and I have a hard time making original stances on scumreads without some interaction of my own but I agree with part of what geyde said about him as I believe I stated in my catch up, about the contradictory stances on Jam and Veg, although I do think that tone and context plays a role there potentially. he goes from voting Jamelia for reasons I originally agreed with, to kind of letting that dissolve while he sheeps spangled's vote on me at a somewhat opportunistic time. I do think that calling it a sheep in his own words is somewhat TSTBS but I don't fully feel that way and think that his 1v1 with jamelia felt kind of poor. Did not like that he called out jam for a misrep when I didn't see it that way, and had nothing productive to say when he was basically proven wrong on that accusation. There are other elements of his play I find somewhat TSTBS but I think that could be the angle that scum!him is going for and therefore I won't let it override my suspicions. also worth noting it appears he is kind of trying to coast by this game in a way that feels somewhat unnatural when compared to his early game play. btw where is the full case on jam?
faustiv(SR) - most of it is covered in my catch up. Not a whole lot to say about this slot because he doesn't have much content. But he shows up when he is scumread, spent almost the entire game so far providing little/no content aside from defending himself, and the only things that don't fall under that category were basically "x is not scum y is scum" with no reasoning given up until he also "sheeped" spangled (see my/draynth's thoughts on how he could be manipulating with purposefully screwing up vote tags), therefore still not providing reasoning but piggybacking off of Spangled's. I guess he elaborated a bit but he chose such an easy person to "analyse". Overall I think his play is quite indicative of newb!scum behavior moreso than newb!town and until he says something that seems like it's coming from a mindset of a townie then I will SR him.
Ngl, I feel a little nervous bringing Spam's wagon to L-1. My consolation right now is knowing that my decision is partially based around the analysis I did of them.
In post 344, UrVeggieM8 wrote:Looking back at the Jam v Spam series of posts, I feel more confident now in reading Spam as scum. I'd go so far to suggest that Spam started a wagon on Jam but backed off when they realised that it wasn't likely to go ahead, perhaps because of what Geyde said in 159.
In coming to this conclusion, I'm fine with what Ethos said about Spam, faüstiv, and Egix eating rope in that order. I'd also be fine with anyone saying that Spam and faüstiv are scum buddies, because of what faüstiv says in 300. Because I've come to the conclusion that I have about Spam, FMPOV it looks like faüstiv is making an attempt to deflect suspicion without overtly interacting with Spam.
eth0s has the three most lynchable players in his scumpool. Airan was playing a trademark scum game.
How are his intentions pure?
Never said that Eth0s's intentions were pure, but I do certainly agree with what they said based on the analysis I've done.
Re Airan playing as scum: compared to how you had been playing at that point v Airan, I wasn't convinced that Airan
was
playing a trademark scum game. What I said about not voting Airan in 261 is indicative of that.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:17 pm
by UrVeggieM8
In post 364, eth0s wrote:I also really like how faustiv disappears when I ask him to challenge anything I said or how I'm scum
In post 365, eth0s wrote:I think if he wasn't faking the not knowing how to use vote tags thing then he is worried about being the one to put me to L-1. he backed off earlier when I was L-1 and now he hops back on when spangled (the person who he sheeped to vote my slot in the first place, mind you) backed off. So now he doesn't have to be the one to put me to L-1.
^the part in parenthesis is really funny btw
Are you
SURE
you'd prefer to lynch Spam over faüstiv?
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:39 pm
by Draynth
I'm reading through now but this is important
Anyone that intends to hammer NMSA needs to first declare intent
In post 364, eth0s wrote:I also really like how faustiv disappears when I ask him to challenge anything I said or how I'm scum
In post 365, eth0s wrote:I think if he wasn't faking the not knowing how to use vote tags thing then he is worried about being the one to put me to L-1. he backed off earlier when I was L-1 and now he hops back on when spangled (the person who he sheeped to vote my slot in the first place, mind you) backed off. So now he doesn't have to be the one to put me to L-1.
^the part in parenthesis is really funny btw
Are you
SURE
you'd prefer to lynch Spam over faüstiv?
see my points on the information we will get from an nmsa flip vs the info from a faustiv flip. I'm not totally convinced the latter isn't mislynch bait.
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:18 pm
by Egix96
UNVOTE:
Daaamn. eth0s, if you went to all that effort after replacing into a scum slot, then knock me down.
Intent to hammer
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:23 pm
by Spangled
@Egix
Could you give us an updated readslist, perhaps?
Daaamn. eth0s, if you went to all that effort after replacing into a scum slot, then knock me down.
Intent to hammer
Let's get one thing straight. This isn't about effort. In this scenario, for any sensible person replacing into the slot that I did, effort isn't a choice and it is not AI.
If I'm scum then everything I've done so far is based around a primary goal of winning the game and a secondary goal of manipulating the game and bringing as much chaos as I can into the game given fake reads and stances that are meant to confuse the town post-flip.
If I'm town then the primary goal is the same, but the secondary concerns getting as much of my perspective out there as I can in case I die.
I can tell you one thing for certain: I'm going to try my ass off in either scenario.
It's the content of and perceived motivation behind the effort that should make you want to vote/unvote me.
So if you're simply removing your vote due to my effort you might as well throw it right back on there.
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:10 am
by Jamelia
Egix already declared their intent to lynch but I agree that we may get more info out of this Spam vote than Faustiv, I guess. It’s tricky though because I do see Faustiv as a clear lynch.
I will say that this vote going fast on Spam is pretty bizarre, especially since so many people were certain Airan was scum. In 12 hours this changes and we go to a new vote just as fast? I’ll be looking at this closely and ISOing whenever my brain wakes up more (LOL!). The same reason why I thought the original Airan vote was fast, this is fast too.
I’m struggling to see if this is because people just want to get a vote through or if they just want to get through the day unscathed.
Ethos has pretty much answered this already, but was about to ask Spangled how they feel about Spam atm and whether they think looking for potential scum-buddies for Spam would be a viable option.
