In post 282, Pavowski wrote:Not deliberately dodging, just unable to do deep reading right now. I will say that I tend to see such conflicts early on as TvT, though I dont think it's particularly towny to be as defensive as they seem.
As for the intervening comments, I will cop to skimming/skipping them and will review later today.
This game went from memery to dead fookin serious faster than I was prepared for.
As promised I re-read. It wasn't much better. Have some terrible reads instead:
GL feels town.
Auro feels town.
T3 could be town.
Mc might be town.
Roden and LQ are prob TvT here but if I had to vote one it's probably Roden. I've seen town LQ look like this before.
And I'll place a new one after I see the latest VC (not on the pagetop yet)
I would prefer if you gave afull readlist if you're not voting on the spot.
I was going to vote roden after the VC was updated, but now I would rather VOTE: Salsa.
Salsa always seems to have a bit of chaotic energy that I find hard to read, but I was pinging after the whole "I want to vote roden but not sure I should" thing, which is scum thinking though I don't know why it was verbalized
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:24 am
by Salsabil Faria
You said
Roden
wasn't verge of the elimination but they're at E-3 that time and we have 4 scums.
Disinterest sure. Dunno about stiffness. Explain that.
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:45 am
by Galron
In post 230, Bingle wrote:I was gonna catch up and be useful, but all of the colors are bleeding together. I promise that I'll either catch up tomorrow. Maybe.
In post 299, Bingle wrote:Unlike last night, I don't have a legitimate reason to not catch up. I just don't want to. Deal with it, nerds. (Seriously though, I promise to get to this and actually provide content when I'm in a better mafia headspace.)
Dammit, Bingle. At least call someone a mothertrucker. Or is it too early for that?
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:49 am
by Galron
In post 325, DArby wrote:Basically, yeah. This game I want to focus on who I town read the least {target pending}.
In post 331, mc esther wrote:you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.
VOTE: salsa
Rolled scum?
Hi why is me forgetting who I voted scummy
Forgets between *some minutes*? I don’t think so... Your eagerness of voting me is scummy.
Kekw
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:23 am
by Auro
In post 351, Pavowski wrote:Salsa always seems to have a bit of chaotic energy that I find hard to read, but I was pinging after the whole "I want to vote roden but not sure I should" thing, which is scum thinking though I don't know why it was verbalized
Why is it scum thinking - why can't town be unsure? Is there a hidden reason scum would be unsure? Is there fault with her reasoning for not being sure?
I wanted to hear mc explain in their own words because every other post of theirs has been really over-explainy and I'm trying to get a sense of their personality
LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him
In post 201, T3 wrote:town lq
sorts people, actively scumhunts, makes walls
scum lq
just says his reads on people, one liners VOTE: lq
thank you for coming to my ted talk
In post 331, mc esther wrote:you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.
VOTE: salsa
All of your scum reads are meta based except for your second vote on Salsa. 1) Are you sure you're not confbiasing with Salsa? 2) if you had no meta on these players, would you be scum reading them?
You did give a town read to DArby that wasn't based on meta, in fact you gave two town reads to DArby that weren't based on meta. Do you town read anyone else? I'm not counting A50 here.
My takeaway is that LQ is very likely town, although I don't recall experiencing his scum game - so I'll have to skim through some.
Is that a meta read then?
What do you think of Roden?
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:53 am
by Bingle
In post 138, mc esther wrote:im happy to say "actually i think cop should investigate doc claims" and leave it at that.
A50 absolutely shouldn’t do this.
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:00 am
by Bingle
In post 138, mc esther wrote:does this mean we should also treat deadlines as slightly shorter than they are? like, this is definitely correct for the most part, but risks no-hammer if the wagon only builds up close to deadline.
Going all the way to deadline is always a bad idea.
In post 351, Pavowski wrote:Salsa always seems to have a bit of chaotic energy that I find hard to read, but I was pinging after the whole "I want to vote roden but not sure I should" thing, which is scum thinking though I don't know why it was verbalized
Why is it scum thinking - why can't town be unsure? Is there a hidden reason scum would be unsure? Is there fault with her reasoning for not being sure?
Of course town can be unsure. Town *should* be unsure.
What's scum thinking is "I've decided I want to vote this person but I'm not going to" because...? Like imo town just votes there whereas scum is a lot more concerned about how their vote "looks".
Salsabil Faria wrote:
You said
Roden
wasn't verge of the elimination but they're at E-3 that time and we have 4 scums.
I wouldn't consider e-3 the verge of elimination, and if scum is willing to give the game away and quick hammer from that far out, I'd say that's worth letting somebody get quick limmed.
being fair to Roden, I basically challenged him in my last post to go at me, so I'm not surprised to see him bite back. What I'd like to actually hear from him though is why he thinks my behavior is more likely to come from me as scum than me as town, because that's what's missing
I'm like want to vote them, also don't want to vote them at the same time
In post 290, GuiltyLion wrote:my one main salient takeaway from the LQ/Roden bit is that both are making dubious claims on one particular front
Roden in 205 asks LQ if LQ thinks Roden "purposefully puts himself in this situation as scum". Again I think Roden is questionably taking credit for something that I feel I'm responsible for (early wagon/pressure on Roden). The logic of "why would I get wagoned as scum" isn't easy to understand from either a town/scum perspective, it's not clear what Roden specifically thinks that he did to get himself wagoned and whether that was intentional. However I have seen both alignments make the "I wouldn't be wagoned if I were scum here" claim, it's not something I feel comfortable reasoning about as AI but I certainly don't townread it, at best it's WIFOMy.
However, Roden has a point in 209 that LQ agreeing that scum!Roden might indeed intentionally "put himself in this situation" is also a bad take. Scum do not love early scrutiny, in almost any circumstance. I don't see LQ's logic in implying that this COULD be a scum plan - again, how and where did Roden even intentionally invite pressure on himself? Whatever Roden's alignment is, I'm sure he'd rather not be voted and rather not have to argue with people voting him.
I can see what LQ is saying in that LQ just kinda went along with an idea (being intentionally wagoned) that Roden put out there, but it's just such bad reasoning on both sides ("if I were scum, I wouldn't be wagoned") ("no, if you were scum, this might be your plan!!") that I'm having a hard time parsing why either player is taking any of the logic seriously.
Hm. Still don’t like GL’s entry. Also firmly disagree with P2, and don’t think GL believes it either. Early scrutiny is great for above average scum because it’s not likely to actually go places and it helps explain why you’re not dead in the late game. Also, classic “that’s town because it mirrors NAI/scummy thing I’m doing” here.
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:17 am
by Bingle
Oh the salsa post is also very scummy.
Regardless of whether roden/LQ is t/s t/t s/s or m/w, there’s definitely scum in the cheerleaders. Other potential takers on that pool are T3 and pav from what I’ve seen so far.
LQ is being surprisingly readable/reasonable given the amount of complaining I saw while p dodging. Light townread there. Roden is meh. Not really scummy, but reacted poorly to baiting. Not really towny either, just kinda got pushed into this whole interaction.
Darby is pro town. Mc is either town or trying to pocket Darby. Need to poke there a bit later to see what falls out of the tree.
Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:19 am
by Bingle
In post 294, mc esther wrote:i can see why scum!lickety would want the thread to be the way it is now; and salsabil and t3's meta read had me considering the scum vs. scum interpretation at one point. but i dont find it that compelling, i obviously cant corroborate their reads, and lickety clearly isnt the only person responsible for the state of the thread.
voicing doubts about the wagon in post #289 pings vaguely town. i dont see much reason for him to attempt to disengage as scum, he's very much "winning" as it were. the obvious reason would be "for the town cred", i guess; but scum changing a read after hard tunnelling for multiple pages is pretty gutsy imo.
In post 97, DArby wrote:Don’t say that. I didn’t fully read the player list and thought I accidentally posted in a game I shouldn’t be in.
I feel like scum would be a little bit more conscious of the fact that they are playing in a game so weak townpoints for this
This is the most moon logicky post I’ve ever read. You could teach a PhD level course on moonlogic, and Titus would walk out of the room saying what the fuck just happened.
