Hi I'm Aisa and I'm here to talk about why I'm not feeling Ausuka's posts in the Ausuka-RR interaction.
Spoiler:
In post 328, Ausuka wrote:I think RR opening the day pushing that Marci killed Hiraki because his theory from early game was correct is really slimy when Hiraki had been pushing RR for like a long time
Pedit: Maybe you should've taken English classes at clown school
It starts off ok. I also read this and thought that RR's push was kind of an odd angle, given that Hiraki's most memorable stance to me was the really strong scumread on RR.
In post 328, Ausuka wrote:I think RR opening the day pushing that Marci killed Hiraki because his theory from early game was correct is really slimy when Hiraki had been pushing RR for like a long time
Pedit: Maybe you should've taken English classes at clown school
Yeah, that's fair. From my perspective, his push on me can't be relevant to the kill, so I was looking at who else he was pushing, but I of course have no way of proving that to you
In post 338, Ausuka wrote:That makes some sense but also like, it's hard to believe the fact Hiraki was pushing town most loudly from your pov didn't lead you to other conclusions - like he was probably killed for being widely townread, or maybe mafia somehow caught on he was a PR. The way you seem to like, instantly come up with a scumpool of me and marci at daystart is kind of sus to me. After strongly pushing Juice as scum it's a convenient pivot to have available.
I kind of liked RR's response and I think that the human mind works in mysterious ways and I'm not sure why they find it so hard to believe that RR could have just come up with the thought.
Spoiler:
In post 339, Radical Rat wrote:My thinking was that he was widely townread, yes, but that having a widely townread slot alive to push wagons on Town would be quite good for scum, and they could kill him later on once he stopped being useful. So I find it more likely scum felt threatened by him in some way, and while he was indeed pushing me the most verbally... his vote was on marci.
In post 340, Ausuka wrote:I mean, the game would be nice and easy if it was a good strategy to always eliminate the people the nightkill was scumreading, but I think we both know that isn't true? I wouldn't have a problem if you brought it up as a point against Marci but the fact you didn't really seem to do much evaluation and used Hiraki to make your push even though he was scumreading you feels slimy to me.
Bit dodgy they're pushing the rodent (sorry, I just like that nickname too much, I hope you like it too RR) for "not doing much evaluation" on their first post of the day.
Spoiler:
In post 341, Radical Rat wrote:Of course it isn't true always, but I think it is here, and I don't have much else to go on right now. Juice wagon is frustratingly uninformative because of xyr "playstyle," plus the self-hammer. By play alone, I townread most people alive here. Herta's entrance wasn't great, but the rest of his posting has been fine. Marci's the only one who doesn't seem to fit here, and it lines up with Hiraki's death, the only issue is that I don't really know who the partner could be. I'm obviously townreading someone I shouldn't be, but even so for now marci's the only one I'm comfortable voting.
In post 274, Herta wrote:I'd like to know why juice? You didn't get at them specifically in your catch up.
This is the main one for me. It's a genuine probing question, upon seeing something that doesn't make sense to him. It's also worth noting that Herta was scumreading and voting Juice at this point, and as scum he would probably not be questioning a wagon he wanted to flip, so it reads more like actually trying to gauge Johnny than anything else.
In post 344, Ausuka wrote:I feel like that's super easy to fake. Like, it's just a request for clarification? It's really NAI. What about it do you find genuine?
In post 343, Radical Rat wrote:and as scum he would probably not be questioning a wagon he wanted to flip
I mean, it's not like asking a simple question for clarification threatens the wagon at all? I don't understand this take either
I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
Spoiler:
In post 346, Radical Rat wrote:Yes, it could be fake. Anything could be fake. You could be faking this entire conversation, as could I. And I reserve the right to change my mind if he does something more overtly scummy later on, but for now I believe it.
In post 346, Radical Rat wrote:Yes, it could be fake. Anything could be fake. You could be faking this entire conversation, as could I. And I reserve the right to change my mind if he does something more overtly scummy later on, but for now I believe it.
Yes, nothing is impossible to be fake. But this is so incredibly easy for scum to do that I really do not think it is town indicative at all and struggle to see why you believe that it is. It is literally just a short request for clarification.
Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:54 pm
by Ircher
With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to accuse a player of malpractice.
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:00 pm
by marcistar
In post 352, Aisa wrote:By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
Sorry that was spose to be marci. Fingers slipped.
By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
Sorry that was spose to be marci. Fingers slipped.
1. Why is marci carrot face and not the rabbit?
2. Why is marci Town?
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:42 pm
by Herta
1. I don't think the rabbit is town right now.
2. Just a feeling I get from her being so talkative and combative.
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:43 pm
by Radical Rat
In post 351, Aisa wrote:rodent (sorry, I just like that nickname too much, I hope you like it too RR)
It's a fun one, though it does get moderately confusing in games with either Roden or another rodent-based player. Which I have recently learned rabbits are not!
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:45 pm
by MegAzumarill
In post 357, Herta wrote:1. I don't think the rabbit is town right now.
2. Just a feeling I get from her being so talkative and combative.
Which rabbit
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:52 pm
by Herta
I forgot we had 2. Both actually. Or if more than 2, all.
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:56 pm
by Herta
I'm not getting town pings from anyone really except maybe marci, maybe ausuka. Maybe not ausuka. I don't know. It's lame but aisa's initial post day 1 still grates on me as does her answer to my question abt why she assumed I'm scum seemed over wrought and deflective or something. I can't recall for sure and can't be arsed to go look rn.
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:57 pm
by Herta
I don't think nka is particularly useful and I kinda scum read rad for it
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:58 pm
by Herta
In post 361, Herta wrote:I'm not getting town pings from anyone really except maybe marci, maybe ausuka. Maybe not ausuka. I don't know. It's lame but aisa's initial post day 1 still grates on me as does her answer to my question abt why she assumed I'm scum seemed over wrought and deflective or something. I can't recall for sure and can't be arsed to go look rn.
Yes these are two separate thoughts
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:26 am
by Ausuka
In post 351, Aisa wrote:I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
I don't think this applies here. First of all, I'm really not tunneling - I townleaned RR d1 and only just started scumreading them. Secondly, I think the holes in the logic are *exactly why* RR comes off as not having a towny mindset. I don't believe that after Hiraki is nightkilled, someone who had been pushing RR, RR assumes Hiraki was killed for his reads, when they know Hiraki was vocally wrong about at least one thing. It comes off as too convenient, allowing them to pivot into scumreading Marci at the start of today - after pushing Juice Marci is the logical next easy target for scum because neither of them have any self preservation and both say things that make no sense.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:28 am
by Ausuka
Like, I think the holes in the logic are not particularly difficult to understand. You also found this an odd angle. RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? The simplest explanation is that RR was looking for a pivot into Marci and planned to use the Hiraki kill as an excuse to do so while also eliminating their biggest critic from the game.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:31 am
by Ausuka
In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:37 am
by Ausuka
Herta can you talk to me about Aisa
I don't not see it, but her most recent post where she argued in favour of RR is probably +town - I don't think scum is particularly likely to go in against me here because it's just not a productive route of pushing. Anyone else in the game other than probably Meg would be an easier target. Maybe she's scum with RR but it would be a very bold play to go in defending them so strongly.
The question is if it is RR and not Aisa and also not Herta who would the second be
VOTE: radical Rat for now
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:23 am
by Herta
I can't really engage in full right now but didn't you say ausuka that my iso was terrible? It sounds like you don't really think so?
I hadn't really taken in aisa's recent posting, well haven't, but I will and think about it. I kinda just closed over it before which sometimes happens when there's complex thought or the appearance of such. I haven't even fully examined your recent posting but I saw the rad aisa question and it struck me on the surface if that makes sense.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:26 am
by Herta
Oh yeah I guess it is scum day. Aisa must be ahead of me. I saw that post last night and it threw me. Thanks aisa!
In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.
Wait which part of mine? I need context.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:16 am
by Radical Rat
I'm not claiming to have a perfectly logical infallible argument on anyone. I'm aware Herta could still be scum, and marci could still be Town. All I'm saying is that based on the limited information we have available right now, this is the best I have.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume scum killed Hiraki for a reason. He was a PR, but I didn't see anything that hinted at that in his ISO, so I don't think scum targeted him for that. So there must have been something in his play that scum didn't want him around for. I think the most likely reason is that he was onto something with marci, while the rest of the game had largely moved on. There could potentially be other reasons, yes, but that's what makes the most sense to me. If you've got other theories (aside from it being because of me, since I obviously will not be persuaded on those), I'd love to hear them and talk about them. If you've got a compelling reason Herta, or anyone else, is scum, talk to me about that.
The points you have against my arguments are reasonable, and I'm not disputing that. But in the absence of anything else, I still think this is the most likely case, in spite of the room for error.
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:21 am
by Ausuka
I mean, I'm aware your reads aren't perfect and I don't expect that. But similarly, I have to make judgements with the information I have and my judgement is that it seems likely you're trying to frame Marci.
My other theories for why Hiraki could have been killed include
-you are scum and he was the only one pushing you
- he was widely townread
- mafia thought he appeared competent; especially true if mafia didn't gather much suspicion
There are almost certainly others but these are the big ones
In post 352, Aisa wrote:By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
i can read marci i think....
just ask me questions bb
The reason I haven't asked you questions directly is that I got the impression you weren't very likely to answer them, but sure. Did you consider at all that that was why I wasn't asking you questions?
You're voting RR now, but you haven't done much to push them. Why not? Like I have ideas and I know this kind of seems like a dumb question if you're town because *your playstyle*, it would still be useful to hear it in your own words I guess.
Aside: I originally wrote a version of this reply trying to imitate marci's tone but I couldn't figure out a way of wording it and posting it without seeming like I was making fun of her which is not my intention at all. I still kinda want to show the world my marci impression though, so there you go:
Spoiler:
i thought you didnt like answering questions bb, why do u want me to ask u questions now
my second question is
you're voting rr but ur not pushing them
why
In post 351, Aisa wrote:I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
I don't think this applies here. First of all, I'm really not tunneling - I townleaned RR d1 and only just started scumreading them. Secondly, I think the holes in the logic are *exactly why* RR comes off as not having a towny mindset. I don't believe that after Hiraki is nightkilled, someone who had been pushing RR, RR assumes Hiraki was killed for his reads, when they know Hiraki was vocally wrong about at least one thing. It comes off as too convenient, allowing them to pivot into scumreading Marci at the start of today - after pushing Juice Marci is the logical next easy target for scum because neither of them have any self preservation and both say things that make no sense.
I agree you are not tunnelling according to the correct definition of the word. My bad. I guess the expression of "she seems more interested in poking holes in RR's logic than in actually trying to assess [...] RR [...]" is closer to the best version of my argument.
Your explanation now does clarify what you meant by "a convenient push", so that's nice.
I think I understand that you are claiming RR is scum because you find the holes in their logic scummy, I don't think that's a convincing rebuttal to my point that you seem interested in poking holes in RR's logic.
In post 365, Ausuka wrote:Like, I think the holes in the logic are not particularly difficult to understand. You also found this an odd angle. RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? The simplest explanation is that RR was looking for a pivot into Marci and planned to use the Hiraki kill as an excuse to do so while also eliminating their biggest critic from the game.
I do agree with you there are holes in the logic, it's not a super convincing push. I found your reaction disproportionate to the hole in the logic, if that makes sense.
In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.
I think claiming to townread that post is pretty null. The emphasis you're putting on assessing logic just feels like it could be a pretty nice way to create red tape, so to speak. If we're gonna poke holes in people's logic we could be here for many weeks.
I guess that in terms of making me think you're town your reply just doesn't do anything for me, unfortunately. I think you've explained what your position is and I believe I understand it, but the fact it seems like a restatement of the points you've already made leaves me a bit tepid. Let's change the topic a bit maybe, feel free to talk to me about anything other than that interaction. This is probably my last post today because *gestures vaguely at her life rn* but I'll be around tomorrow.
