Mafiascum.net

↑ Oversoul wrote:I hated Espeonage's wagon because of who was on it, not because it was on Espeonage specifically. If it had been Singer with those same people voting I would have hated it just the same. At the time of that post, both UT and CDB were on the wagon and they were my first two main scumreads in this game.

iirc you hated all the wagons?

Yes.

I didn't hate them for all the same reasons. Give me a little more credit than that.

@Oversoul, Sorry for this being shorter, but I do want you to know why my posting changed to favor this style, so maybe you understand me better. I used to make longer, more frequent walls. I found they were tuned out for being too wordy, or otherwise hated. I gravitated towards a more real time reactionary post style that is actually more popular on other mafia sites. Plus, if I'm replying to people in real time, it gives me some ability to label what they are feeling (but I don't exactly have a method of figuring out yet as many people know). I know I've been engaging with more theory talk with FFery and others don't like it, but I feel many people just don't get me when I'm trying to work with them. You don't know how many times I've just wanted to rage at Cheetory and say stop confbiasing you [insert insulting title here]. Plus, I have no idea what the fuck GiF is doing any more which makes it really hard to work with him. If you could see a method of helping me work with GiF better, I'd appreciate it. :nod:

@FFery, Same to you. If you see a method of me working better with GiF, that would be great. I feel like I bungled some shit up by focusing so much on ika. I kinda know ika so I know that GiF is town through ika but I don't think I'm really good at working with GiF. Like at all. We've played a handful of games together but I'm not sure if we've ever been on the same side beyond this game, much less the same wavelength. I'd ask GiF but I don't think GiF's even talking to me and I don't know why.

Well ok. I am a bit concerned about you limiting the lynch options to AD, Singer, Titus, UT, Espe. 2 you think are town, 1 null, 1 scum, and I don't actually know what you think of me since I was on Espe but you also hated my wagon but I'll assume not a hard scum hard. The point is you're advocating limiting to options in which you truly only believe 1/5 will flip scum. That at the least is counter intuitive to me despite the assertion that you think information wise we'd get the most out of lynching 1 of these 5.

↑ Oversoul wrote:That said, the contradiction aspect of my post was only one part of it. I completely disproved your defense about moving your vote, and yet you don't address that?

1. you didn't disprove jack shit
2. I don't have to do anything you say
3. I answered the part that was wrong on an objective basis rather than just a misunderstanding of basic motivations and behaviors basis, since it seemed important to get that part cleared up for the rest of the audience

ActionDan wrote:Well ok. I am a bit concerned about you limiting the lynch options to AD, Singer, Titus, UT, Espe. 2 you think are town, 1 null, 1 scum, and I don't actually know what you think of me since I was on Espe but you also hated my wagon but I'll assume not a hard scum hard. The point is you're advocating limiting to options in which you truly only believe 1/5 will flip scum. That at the least is counter intuitive to me despite the assertion that you think information wise we'd get the most out of lynching 1 of these 5.

well yeah, oversoul is just bullshitting and trying to get in good with titus and ffery for some stupid reason

well, Titus doubtful due to the same...

I'm trying to get in good by shitting on their play? Ok.
I only want UT's lynch, Dan. When you put it that way, yeah it does look shitty and illogical.
i think I should clarify that I am only limiting the options because we are so close to deadline and this day has largely been inefficient. If a lynch does land on one of those five, at least that restores some efficiency to the game. Yes UT death makes the game less efficient but I think he is scum and don't want another "let's settle and vote some random dude" lynch. The list also forestalls that type of activity so in general I think it is pro-town to do at a time like this

UT, Nacho feels like you're displaying an uncharacteristic level of hostility.

↑ fferyllt wrote:UT, Nacho feels like you're displaying an uncharacteristic level of hostility.

I've already ctrl+a+del about seven snarky responses to that

I don't know a way to respond to that which isn't unnecessarily rude

Oversoul wrote:I'm trying to get in good by shitting on their play? Ok.
I only want UT's lynch, Dan. When you put it that way, yeah it does look shitty and illogical.
i think I should clarify that I am only limiting the options because we are so close to deadline and this day has largely been inefficient. If a lynch does land on one of those five, at least that restores some efficiency to the game. Yes UT death makes the game less efficient but I think he is scum and don't want another "let's settle and vote some random dude" lynch. The list also forestalls that type of activity so in general I think it is pro-town to do at a time like this

this is shitty and illogical and I am willing to admit that, but I'm gonna go ahead and do it anyway when we have actual options that aren't just a vanity wagon for me THAT I AM WILLING TO LYNCH is vote for a vanity wagon

@Nacho
How am I supposed to respond to this game in a way that isn't hostile. I've looked up "dumb" "terrible" and "scummy" in a dictionary but nothing's really jumping out at me as an adequate description for what I'm dealing with here

↑ Oversoul wrote:I'm trying to get in good by shitting on their play? Ok.
I only want UT's lynch, Dan. When you put it that way, yeah it does look shitty and illogical.
i think I should clarify that I am only limiting the options because we are so close to deadline and this day has largely been inefficient. If a lynch does land on one of those five, at least that restores some efficiency to the game. Yes UT death makes the game less efficient but I think he is scum and don't want another "let's settle and vote some random dude" lynch. The list also forestalls that type of activity so in general I think it is pro-town to do at a time like this

I think a good thing to do would be at least take a look at Espe. (And also, like an opinion on me for completion)

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:I've already ctrl+a+del about seven snarky responses to that

I don't know a way to respond to that which isn't unnecessarily rude

actually, nacho used "unnecessarily" rather than "uncharacteristically" in his post.

I don't want to be wrong about you. But it feels kind of odd that you had no problem whatsoever with the TSO lynch at the time, but are now calling me butthurt when I'm looking at you.

↑ fferyllt wrote:

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:I've already ctrl+a+del about seven snarky responses to that

I don't know a way to respond to that which isn't unnecessarily rude

actually, nacho used "unnecessarily" rather than "uncharacteristically" in his post.

I don't want to be wrong about you. But it feels kind of odd that you had no problem whatsoever with the TSO lynch at the time, but are now calling me butthurt when I'm looking at you.

FFery, the amount of uncharacteristic hostility to me looking into TSO's reads suggests to me that he was right somewhere. Yet, TSO is more of an emotional player. Arguendo, suppose I'm right and TSO was right how should I look in divining his correct read?

titus I'm not sure what you're even asking me.

unnecessarily and uncharacteristically are two extremely different points

and I had no problem with TSO dying because we needed a lynch and he was as good as anyone else on the table at the time. you calling me scum now has nothing to do with that at all?

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:unnecessarily and uncharacteristically are two extremely different points

and I had no problem with TSO dying because we needed a lynch and he was as good as anyone else on the table at the time. you calling me scum now has nothing to do with that at all?

I don't know what "that" refers to. That you were ok with the TSO lynch?

(10) T S O: Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]

We've gone back and forth about you. Also about CDB. Of the players on the TSO wagon, we can't see most of them as remotely scum.

I'll try again.

I'm supposing TSO had a right scumread somewhere.
TSO is an emotional player.
I am terrible at it.
You are better.

What standard do you use in determining TSO's reads as accurate or not?

↑ Titus wrote:I'll try again.

I'm supposing TSO had a right scumread somewhere.
TSO is an emotional player.
I am terrible at it.
You are better.

What standard do you use in determining TSO's reads as accurate or not?

IME TSO's townreads are usually better than his scumreads in the early game. Given how far behind he was, I have doubts about scumread accuracy.

↑ fferyllt wrote:

↑ Titus wrote:I'll try again.

I'm supposing TSO had a right scumread somewhere.
TSO is an emotional player.
I am terrible at it.
You are better.

What standard do you use in determining TSO's reads as accurate or not?

IME TSO's townreads are usually better than his scumreads in the early game. Given how far behind he was, I have doubts about scumread accuracy.

Ok, well that's still consistent with my theory that people don't want me looking into TSO's reads. How do you determine which of his townreads are accurate? I'll start that process so it'll keep me busy so I'm not posting as much and it will help me reorganize my thoughts so you can corrall people into the lynch you want.

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:1. you didn't disprove jack shit
2. I don't have to do anything you say
3. I answered the part that was wrong on an objective basis rather than just a misunderstanding of basic motivations and behaviors basis, since it seemed important to get that part cleared up for the rest of the audience

1. Yes. Yes, I did.

↑ Oversoul wrote:UT having me, Mastin, Titus, and Singer as scum reads is fine and dandy, but two of those people have viable wagons and you *still* arent voting. You're not thinking like a townie trying to actively suss out scum. And that is scummy as fuck.

More votes on the UT wagon please.

Why are you thinking I could be scum? Because I'm pushing you?

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:bro I think I've more than proven that I'm willing to throw my vote around

your reasoning is bad and you should feel bad

whatevs though, time is short and etc.

vote singer

↑ Oversoul wrote:That is not what my post said. Did you ignore parts of my post? I do not understand how you came to this conclusion given what I actually said in the post. My scum read on you is not because at the time you were not voting. It is your passive, reactive play. You are not actively scumhunting or earnestly trying to figure out the game. When I called you out, you had scum reads on both Singer and Espeonage who had viable wagons, yet you were not voting either of them. You were not actually trying to get them lynched, you were talking and making reads for the sake of talking and having reads. There is a difference.

This post is a perfect example of your passive and reactive play. You did not actually vote a wagon on your scum read until I called you out.

Read these three quotes and tell me that I didn't disprove what you were saying.

Your response to my suspicion on you was "Yes, I have been moving my vote around your point is wrong". I replied saying to you that your vote and your scum reads did not match up at all at a point in the game when they SHOULD have. You were complaining about this day dragging on so you voted TSO to end the day quicker. You have scumreads on not ONE but TWO viable wagons at a point that is now CLOSER TO DEADLINE and you still are not even voting LET ALONE the fact that you had scum reads.

2. Sure you don't. But that isn't what a townie thinks. A townie who wants to accomplish something and work with other towns people would at least be trying to engage me in discussion. You're just telling me wrong I am wrong, not going into ANY depth at all to explain that opinion.

3. I'm not following. What does this mean?

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:this is shitty and illogical and I am willing to admit that, but I'm gonna go ahead and do it anyway when we have actual options that aren't just a vanity wagon for me THAT I AM WILLING TO LYNCH is vote for a vanity wagon

I've explained this numerous times. I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. I think that of *all* the lynch candidates today that *you* are more scummy than any of them. I am going to fight for your lynch.
I gave everyone else parameters for a lynch because I knew it was going to be an uphill battle to get you lynched but I specifically DID NOT WANT a lynch on a person who was not already discussed today. I admitted you are an exception to the rule but the only reason is because *I* think you're scum. Yes, that is selfish and egotistical but no one else in this game has really given me any indication that they ACTUALLY CARE about who gets lynched today. Given that, I am MORE THAN OKAY to push people around/bruise some people to get you lynched or at least prevent another lurker lynch.

My parameters have LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU AS A SCUM READ OR MY BASIS FOR SCUM READING YOU. Yet here you are. Choosing to try and discredit me rather than talk about things.

↑ ActionDan wrote:

↑ Oversoul wrote:I'm trying to get in good by shitting on their play? Ok.
I only want UT's lynch, Dan. When you put it that way, yeah it does look shitty and illogical.
i think I should clarify that I am only limiting the options because we are so close to deadline and this day has largely been inefficient. If a lynch does land on one of those five, at least that restores some efficiency to the game. Yes UT death makes the game less efficient but I think he is scum and don't want another "let's settle and vote some random dude" lynch. The list also forestalls that type of activity so in general I think it is pro-town to do at a time like this

I think a good thing to do would be at least take a look at Espe. (And also, like an opinion on me for completion)

Ok. I'll look into Espeonage later today.
I think you're town although I'm not entirely sure how strong I feel about that. I disliked your early game when I was reading it, but I never fancied your style of play even when I was more active. It always felt scummy to me. I didn't like your Espeonage case because it seemed more like "pay attention to me! I'm doing town things" rather than you wanting to analyze Espeonage's play.

That said, I thought your Singer analysis was a step in the right direction and that your conversations with me are fairly town. I do think that this is a bit of a recency issue though (recency is also why I think some people voted for TSO despite him having a fairly strong early town game).

↑ Oversoul wrote:Your response to my suspicion on you was "Yes, I have been moving my vote around your point is wrong". I replied saying to you that your vote and your scum reads did not match up at all at a point in the game when they SHOULD have. You were complaining about this day dragging on so you voted TSO to end the day quicker. You have scumreads on not ONE but TWO viable wagons at a point that is now CLOSER TO DEADLINE and you still are not even voting LET ALONE the fact that you had scum reads.

Furthermore, UT, if you were truly uncaring about moving your vote around whichever way why were you ever not voting? Why did it take you 23 posts between your first post the day after TSO was lynched until you ACTUALLY placed your first vote for the second lynch on Singer?

That does not reconcile in my mind. If you say you don't care about where your vote is and that you move it around as much as you want (which you seem to be wanting to imply is townie?) why didn't you just vote anyone right out of the gate and move it around accordingly?

I hope for your sake that you're scum

because you should be embarrassed post-game if you aren't

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:I hope for your sake that you're scum

because you should be embarrassed post-game if you aren't

Nope. Just stubborn.

Do your teammates have any opinions on this game by the way? You've said nothing on that front.

↑ Oversoul wrote:2. Sure you don't. But that isn't what a townie thinks. A townie who wants to accomplish something and work with other towns people would at least be trying to engage me in discussion. You're just telling me wrong I am wrong, not going into ANY depth at all to explain that opinion.

I just got done playing a game with a guy who spent literally the entire game hammering on about what The Right Way To Play Mafia is, and the scum intentionally kept him around all game because he just sparred with me and was fucking wrong the whole time while cozying up to the actual scum

this is really reminding me of this

I really don't feel like addressing anything in that gigantic pile of horseshit other than this point that you are asserting that I am scum because there is One True Path that the One True Townie must follow, and because I am not singing kum bay yah with you I have to be scum.

girl please

I don't have to engage with you. I don't have to answer your questions. I don't have to follow the trajectory you're asserting that all Good Pro Town Players Who Love Jesus follow. Sit on your useless vote on a stupid mislynch and feel an unwarranted sense of self satisfaction that probably won't even pass when I flip town at some point because you literally don't understand how you could be wrong.

or maybe you're just scum. either way.

Oversoul wrote:

↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:I hope for your sake that you're scum

because you should be embarrassed post-game if you aren't

Nope. Just stubborn.

see. when you post things like this it makes me wonder why we're arguing.

Oversoul wrote:Do your teammates have any opinions on this game by the way? You've said nothing on that front.

I keep asking and they keep saying "there's no goddamn way I'm reading that mess"

but for you. because you know I love you, I will ask them again and quote that post and ask pretty please with extra special cherries on top.