In post 2648, Rautherdir wrote:Well, I haven’t really read much since my last post, so... yeah. I have read the posts made since day started though
I suppose I should clarify that before I posted the discussion so far was ‘Let’s get rid of the no gov shot as quickly as possible’ and it would be easy for scum to slip under the radar. Bingle immediately stifled any discussion on that matter, and from what I have read is still espousing misinformation regarding, for example, the Cult Q&A; and is using it to make reads on players. This is not a good trait for someone who is also trying to control the town. VOTE: Bingle
Mmm. Spicy read, not really agreeing with it rn but it is interesting nonetheless.
In post 276, Rautherdir wrote:Okay then...
The governor shot has an advantage that Bingle didn't bring up earlier.
It gives reads. The whole process of voting for the governor shot, and then later how the person with the shot uses it, generates reads. And I believe that offsets the mechanical disadvantages of the shot.
Having said that, at this stage in the game there's only one role that could effectively use governor in this situation that can get away with claiming right now. And that would still be heavily ill-advised due to the presence of a cult. So if we do give someone the governor shot, we probably won't be doing it for mechanical reasons. And since we haven't had enough time to form good reads yet, the next strategy we could use to give the shot is to give it to someone who can be read somewhat easily to see how and if they use it in the first few days.
So I'm going to VOTE: Creature (I could be convinced into voting for DEB as well.)
In post 288, Rautherdir wrote:I mean, DEB seemed pretty easy to read in my last game. (Then again, he got confed day 2 so... my perception might be inaccurate)
And it has been a while since I played with Creature, so if they're no longer an easy read I guess I'll just UNVOTE: and see what other people think of my strat.
In post 333, zoraster wrote:Everyone who posted earlier than me is slightly suspect.
Any logic to this?
I got my PM, said "oh hey, this will be fun when it starts" and then left it to chkflip to tell me when it started because I had nothing to do, no reason to engage with the game.
On the other hand, someone who gets a scum PM has a scum PT and is engaged with the game and waiting for it to start and thus noticed when the nonsense begins. Obviously plenty of people will see it in the Large Theme list and what not, but all equal, anyone who posted before chkflip deigned to tell us the game started gets a mild mark against them.
Or, you know, had the sign-up thread bookmarked and noticed the title for the sign-up thread had changed to say the game was now up. That's also possible.
And I disagree that the cult recruiting the governor shot is an issue, I guess it should be clear that that slot probably won't survive very long. (And since it has a high probability of becoming cult then scum would probably shoot the slot at some point.)
To be clear whoever gets the governor shot is the day 5 lynch if they last that long and cult isn't already accounted for. (Exact day adjustable depending on the number of night kills we end up having at night and whether or not there's an early cult leader death. But yeah, as zoraster said, this is a 40 player game. We can afford a one-shot governor, especially if it allows us to create reads and start discussion before getting into day 1. Suggesting otherwise isn't necessarily alignment indicative considering that it's probably the mechanically correct choice, but I don't think it's the correct choice with all things considered.)
First of all, there's so much waffle in these posts I thought I'd walked into a Denny's. Second, he rambles on about explaining exactly why he's doing what he's doing, which makes me think he's very concerned about how people see him and not too concerned about how he sees other people. He's doing this for reads, apparently, but when I've repeatedly asked for people to explain how the existence of a governor gives reads he's been silent. (And yes, this conversation has given the opportunity to read people, but no more than a normal D1 would. And it's certainly caused a lot more thread apathy because of people sitting on their hands doing nothing waiting for the real game to start.)
As soon as he receives pushback on the idea, he drops it with a "I guess I can see what people think of my idea." Unvoting at L-20. Which shows a real commitment to using it as a mechanic to scumhunt.
Further, as soon as zor comes in with a similar sentiment, he jumps right back into the same thing, but the tone isn't "I believe this thing" but rather "Look, someone else believes this thing! I'm not SCUMMY!" And even still, while blatantly hiding behind zor's agreement, he feels the need to defend himself from zor's thought that people who joined the thread early were more likely to be scum.
tl;dr, quickhammer no governor so we can lynch this.
A: Your first point makes no sense. If I was concerned about how people would see me I would have just voted no gov. But instead I took a position I could never actually justify, just so that conversation about it could be spurred.
B: That was specifically regarding voting Creature for governor.
C: Try 'Please stop scum-reading this person who believes a similar thing.' And the first part of that third post was just me refuting that stance because it isn't exactly a solid argument. You know, interacting with people, helping them see the flaws in their logic.
Ok so the Rauth case felt sound on first look but the counterpoints/explanations here make a lot of sense
I have Rauth as weak Town now
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:41 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 2660, Rautherdir wrote:Menal is... interesting. He took the unpopular and very attention-getting action of voting himself for governor and did it quite seriously. I see Menal as being less likely to be group-scum right now, but maybe 3p or cult leader.
Nice take, feel inclined to agree but not sure yet.
Could you go into the equity of that behavior for town, groupscum, 3P, and Cult?
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:43 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 2666, Rautherdir wrote:Okay, parts of that definitely aren't great. They aren't lynch-worthy either though.
Also, specifically starting it with 2353 when I had just made 2652? Really?
Honestly what annoys me most about Amrun's ISO is that it's hard to tell what or who she's talking about sometimes. But I'm not sure that's something scum would risk.
In post 2660, Rautherdir wrote:Menal is... interesting. He took the unpopular and very attention-getting action of voting himself for governor and did it quite seriously. I see Menal as being less likely to be group-scum right now, but maybe 3p or cult leader.
Cult leaders usually try to blend in and stay low key. Running for gov would attract too much attention for a CL.
Or would it
That is the ultimate face, wow
Also I have to say that I don’t really have much of an idea of how a Cult Leader would really play that
Maybe they would be overt about it, likely is player-dependent
If you look closely the brown varies from day to day.
Try to make your posts a little less brown.
Yikes. So what is the meaning of this post, btw?
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:50 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 2686, davesaz wrote:I despise pushy people. If I go to the store and a salesperson follows me around, I'll go to a different store.
Menalque is a salesperson in a game where the best way to win is to let people think and make up their own minds.
I think Menalque’s approach works somewhat for a game this size actually
In post 2689, Dr Easy Bake wrote:It’s D1 still so, I appoint myself as designated hammerer as always.
I was thinking on taking this on myself. Though it all depends on timing of when the opportunity comes up -- as someone who works 40-60 hours and volunteers on top of that there are large swathes of time that I might not be able to get to it fast enough.
If there are multiple designated hammerers does the first one to notice an L-1 go for it or do the dogpile when their combined votes would be enough
Definitely not a fan of that second idea on paper, looks like it work well as a scum cover
Idk maybe Dave, but I don't like his pushing on Menalque over amrun.
Specifically that Menalque should focus on things other than his scumread and read the other 30 some odd players.
Because tbh I'm not even going to read what like 20 of the players post at all. If it's not happening real-time it's really easy to get lost in the playerlist.
Guess that means I'm cool with Menalque for today too.
Amrun is on the scum side of null, the attack on FB was weird and the responses didn't do much to make me think it was just town basing a read on iffy logic.
If I told you I had a true scumread on anyone I'd be lying but pick a name out of a hat and I'm probably ok with them being the lynch.
Not wooper though, I want to see what's going on there with jingle.
Why is Dave pushing Menalque to generate more breadth of reads a bad thing? Like the approach you described for yourself isn’t fine, but Menalque is doing the same thing, but like, to the extreme.
In post 2516, Amrun wrote:Firebringer I actually think is scum. So I’ll keep my vote where it belongs. But I’d board the Creature choochoo if it came to that purely because of the spam. There’s a number of other people I’d wagon much more happily.
Melnaque’s spam is just as bad and she is significantly scummier, for example.
blah blah “spam is scummy”
I thought you were going to at least be a little more sensible about things but nope
You go into the boomer pile now
I was literally saying that spam is not inherently scummy, and that I don’t have a scumread on creature. Spam is just annoying. Read a little more closely.
Only one you don’t call out for spamming is Fire and he’s been pretty spammy so far. It looks to me like you’re blanket scumreading spam rn, regardless of what you think of it generally
Complaining about spamming =\= scumreading spamming.
Creature isn’t a scumread, melnaque isn’t a scumread, you’re not a scumread - and you are three of the worst spammers. Creature is the only one I’d consider PL, though he has died off a little bit so my rage with it.
Firebringer is NOT a spammer, and he was who I was scumreading at that time. This line of reasoning does not match up with reality in any capacity.
Doctor Drew
Untrod Tripod
The Fonz
Pine
Virgo the Immaculate
Jadesmar
Alisae
Rick Dalton
Dude you know that ali is 711 and Rick is FL right?
Alright EP can be town lol.
Why...?
@Amrun: I guess I can give you that, but like, in that specific post, that was the way it seemed. Although talk about Menalque, you say you don’t scumread him, but in that post from earlier you call him “scummier [than Creature]”? What is the balance there?
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:13 am
by Gamma Emerald
Btw from the posts of yours Dave called town I came to feel your Fire read might have merit
Doctor Drew
Untrod Tripod
The Fonz
Pine
Virgo the Immaculate
Jadesmar
Alisae
Rick Dalton
Ali is "town" I think. Read as has a green pm.
Rick Dalton is a FL alt I think. I mean DL might be PL worthy but yeah...
the rest just need to start posting and if they don't I'd be ok with seeing them hang.
You guys showed him the activity overview and he used it to find the 1 posters.
That's why he threw Rick and Ali in there with 1 slip a piece.
Okay
your EP townread looks much better now, didn’t realize that was what happened.
In post 2728, RCEnigma wrote:It's in my iso I answered like twice now. I asked about some role stuff in relation to cult. The answer I got was that my question would be answered in a cult Q&A in the day 1 opening post.
I don't like the fake post restriction and I think that's somewhat likely to come from scum. And they aren't doing much of anything.
I know you are invested in your Amrun wagon but I really didn't like his go with the flow vote there and I thought his cult-shamming to push a no gov agenda was scummy. It was fear-mongering.
I didn't really like
In post 2272, Elements wrote:Stop voting for no governor. It's more fun if we have it in the game.
but on a 2nd re-read, I'm not really sure why.
Okay, meant to respond to the Ceph read when I realized it was on him but went far enough that it was easier to just come through to it
I don’t see why faking a post restriction is a scum thing at all. I also think saying Ceph hasn’t been doing much is inappropriate as he’s actually made some comments that have felt rather intuitive despite his writing method.
So, TSE, why did you post this? I didn’t see anything that you posted having much to do with me and you didn’t try to engage me much at all before. What the heck dude?
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:25 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 2803, Menalque wrote:@gamma bc she is scum but when you get up to where I start posting about it you’ll see why
I have mixed feelings about Amrun rn, some of her posting has been pretty decent and some of her points are alright, but something feels wrong there too
face, wow
