Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:55 am
UNVOTE
Quoting this for reemphasis.In post 3549, Just Sheep Us wrote:Scum-AP missing that CF was a miller is something I wouldn't expect from AP (he's one of the few players that doesn't mix up claims/gamestates/etc). ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT CF'S MILLER STATUS WOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE SCUM QT, AS WOULD HAVE AP'S PLAN.
The all-caps part is pretty crux here. What you're trying to argue is that not only did AP botch a fakeclaim, but that 3 other members of the scum team all failed to correct him. That's not a thing that's going to happen.
You've totally cleared it up for me.In post 3542, AngryPidgeon wrote:It was during the gladiate...Like even Stalin was like "lol I guess LB IS obvious town". I dont see how I can be more clear about this.In post 3540, PeregrineV wrote:Not seeing where you reached the Lord Business=obvious town conclusion.
Irrelevant now.In post 3546, AngryPidgeon wrote:Why does that make sense to you, I think there is a strong chance I was blocked..
Or he, you know, didn't see it?AP wrote:He didnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate him.
Fine, but your responsible for focusing him on the game and changing his newspaper.In post 3551, Just Sheep Us wrote:Quoting this for reemphasis.In post 3549, Just Sheep Us wrote:Scum-AP missing that CF was a miller is something I wouldn't expect from AP (he's one of the few players that doesn't mix up claims/gamestates/etc). ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT CF'S MILLER STATUS WOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE SCUM QT, AS WOULD HAVE AP'S PLAN.
The all-caps part is pretty crux here. What you're trying to argue is that not only did AP botch a fakeclaim, but that 3 other members of the scum team all failed to correct him. That's not a thing that's going to happen.
Actually, I take it back, it's not irrelevant, it adds a minor bit of credence to the claim.In post 3553, Kagura wrote:Irrelevant now.
I claimed an inno on F16 because I wanted to see who they'd react to it. I legitimately did not foresee this tidal wave of pitchforks rolling my way over what I figured would be an extremely transparent play once I clarified it.In post 3548, Clyton wrote:You started out with a fake report on CF to test if he was truly miller or not? You thought the three people you wanted to investigate are scummy? And now you are saying you were most likely roleblocked? How did you get an investigation result on Kagura (which the Mafia team chose to be investigated) if that was what happened in the first place?
Yeah I know, none of the scum team wants to remember ny 167In post 3546, AngryPidgeon wrote:Well Ive never really seen you as scum before so your meta defense is falling flat for me.In post 3539, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:ha. and there you demonstrate you have no concept of my scum game. Despite 167 even.
As scum I'm anything but cheeky. Someday I'll work up the nerve to try it.
This is false, but given your attention to detail I'm not surprised you think this. Pretty sure I was the first to declare Mac town, and swam against the current on RBD, GiF-before-hydra, and Fox&Hound.And I certainly wouldn't say you have been cheeky for the mass majority of this game. Its mostly been you afraid to do anything and just following popular opinion on most of the playerlist. That is scummy.
I still don't really understand why you flailed when that claim blew up in your face. If you knew he claimed miller you should have expected pushback and suspicion. It's the main thing that worries me about your current claim.P-edit: Why does that make sense to you, I think there is a strong chance I was blocked..
Id talk more about CF but its in my iso. He didnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate him. tl;dr: hes not a miller, hes lying and scum.
Thank you. I don't understand why he's getting free passes from all corners for doing precisely what anyone would do, with the possible argument that town would've been more likely to throw in two possible scum and let them fight it out for information.In post 3459, MastinSSK wrote: Orcinus. (Heck no, he gets no towncred for that claim. It's null.)
Someone is going to have to remind me for the 140th time why we aren't allowed to lynch this.In post 3462, CupcakePanda wrote:I totally have you down as scum don't worry. <3In post 3449, Just Sheep Us wrote:Also, if anyone could think I'm still scum at this point, I don't know what to tell them. Like, I don't want to chalk things up to personal bias against me b/c I'm a dick, etc, but I'd be at a loss for any other explanation for anyone voting me at this point.
This point really struck me as I went through this back-and-forth. I felt like I was seeing town moments from Clyton within the argument (actually I daresay from both of you) but this really hit home for me. The motivation is there. I need to look at the rebuttal to this point again because I don't recall it.In post 3473, MastinSSK wrote:BecauseAnd what's wrong with analyzing and scumreading at the same time?you offered to enter into a fucking 1v1 against me. If you analyzed things and found them to be scum, sure. Battle. If you were analyzing things and were beginning to scumread me, you'd point it out but not risk it. Because know what a critical piece of logical, analytical play is? CAUTION. Which you have displayed the entire game. You've shown a lack of commitment to reads, being willing to reconsider them. Meaning that if you hadn't done your analysis? You'd have taken that stance on me.
Instead, you admit you didn't do the analysis...yet you also insist on trying to kill me anyway. From certain players, this might be normal. For a fucking self-admitted logical analytical player, it simply makes zero sense coming from town.
What difference does it make? None except that he arguably gets towncred from putting you in the ring, maybe, but probably not. I don't understand why you think that decision is so important. Besides, what if he puts in LB and some other lurktownie? If Orc is ever lynched and flips scum, the surviving lurktownie becomes obvious town. I expect better logic from you.In post 3482, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:What nonsense is this?In post 3468, MastinSSK wrote:Okay, then. Scenario. Orc's scum. He gets lynched and self-governs. He puts two obvtown players in.
Scenario: Orci is scum. He therefore knows who is town and who isn't. He puts twonon-obvioustownies in. He also doesn't say in-thread that he's purposely gladiating a townread.
What happens Day 2?Fuck all.
Why did you claim a town result on him rather than a scum result? Wouldn't that get the reaction you were looking for?In post 3488, AngryPidgeon wrote:Like. I thought about it. And there is no fucking way that CF wouldnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate a him, a MILLER.
So thanks for ruining his reaction to that, I still think hes just scum for declining to comment on the cop declaring intent to investigate him as a miller though. Cause thats not something a miller forgets.
AP flaked that game. I was playing AFB solo.In post 3558, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Yeah I know, none of the scum team wants to remember ny 167
Then one final question. I want to know why you thought Kagura was scum for theIn post 3556, AngryPidgeon wrote:I claimed an inno on F16 because I wanted to see who they'd react to it. I legitimately did not foresee this tidal wave of pitchforks rolling my way over what I figured would be an extremely transparent play once I clarified it.In post 3548, Clyton wrote:You started out with a fake report on CF to test if he was truly miller or not? You thought the three people you wanted to investigate are scummy? And now you are saying you were most likely roleblocked? How did you get an investigation result on Kagura (which the Mafia team chose to be investigated) if that was what happened in the first place?
Yes I've been calling Kagura and PV scum most of yesterday. Orcinus was a more meh read but I figured he'd be good to have info on given that he was in the spotlight yesterday.
I was almost definitely roleblocked.
I don't know? I followed up with Cabd a little when I saw it and he basically said he wasn't allowed to elaborate but that he could tell me that I "attempted" to investigate Kagura. So I dont know. I expected to not be told anything about my target if I were RBd given the wording Cabd originally sent me but apparently I -do- get that piece of information anyways. not that it matters, scum can just rtandomize their target for me if I am getting RBd anyways.
In post 3495, AngryPidgeon wrote:If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.
I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. Andyes I got a result on Kagura.
I was on a streak of drawing only scum that ended with AG mafia and I just sorta flaked out of that game out of being depressed at having to be scum again.In post 3558, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Yeah I know, none of the scum team wants to remember ny 167
Mmmm. My view on the matter may be skewed because of when I replaced in. I like to think I was at the forefront of the Foxhound and RBD and Mac reads.In post 3558, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:This is false, but given your attention to detail I'm not surprised you think this. Pretty sure I was the first to declare Mac town, and swam against the current on RBD, GiF-before-hydra, and Fox&Hound.
WTF did you EXPECT me to do then? My initial reaction was to be upset that it was blown out of the water before I could so much as narrow my eyes menacingly at F16.In post 3558, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I still don't really understand why you flailed when that claim blew up in your face. If you knew he claimed miller you should have expected pushback and suspicion. It's the main thing that worries me about your current claim.
Actually that also occurred to me. I guess I didn't think this out too well, I don't know why I expected people to let him come in and do his thing. I was just astonished that no one corrected me yesterday when I was pretty deadset onIn post 3559, The Fox and the Hound wrote:Why did you claim a town result on him rather than a scum result? Wouldn't that get the reaction you were looking for?
I was surprised to have gotten a target but "failed" because the wording of my PM sort of suggests that being blocked would NOT give me that information. So I sot of considered that a result and that is why I wanted to have Kagura check in before I claimed it,In post 3563, The Fox and the Hound wrote:In post 3495, AngryPidgeon wrote:If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.
I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. Andyes I got a result on Kagura.
VOTE: AP
In post 3556, AngryPidgeon wrote:I don't know? I followed up with Cabd a little when I saw it and he basically said he wasn't allowed to elaborate but that he could tell me that I "attempted" to investigate Kagura. So I dont know.I expected to not be told anything about my target if I were RBd
For now, I'm working on the assumption this is a fundamental clash of mindset. Despite all the morph games, I'm not a gambiter and I don't think like a gambiter. And your gambit is so raw around the edges that my automatic reaction was "caught scum".In post 3564, AngryPidgeon wrote:WTF did you EXPECT me to do then? My initial reaction was to be upset that it was blown out of the water before I could so much as narrow my eyes menacingly at F16.
Are you implying that you think we're town? I don't recall this.In post 3564, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mmmm. My view on the matter may be skewed because of when I replaced in. I like to think I was at the forefront of the Foxhound and RBD and Mac reads.In post 3558, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:This is false, but given your attention to detail I'm not surprised you think this. Pretty sure I was the first to declare Mac town, and swam against the current on RBD, GiF-before-hydra, and Fox&Hound.
The govern ability is a fucking gladiate. A 1v1 IN WHICH ONE OF US GETS LYNCHED. You offered to go into it. You're saying you were still trying to figure me out. Yet you offered to go what is essentially a death-match where one of us lives and the other dies. Which might be okay if you actually meant you'd be willing to self-sacrifice.Clyton wrote:And I'm still considering my reads on you.
Because he's my strongest scumread.Why the push against PV?
And who, pray tell, put him in there?In post 3479, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:lb was a retard and didn't no lynch
more after this quick aram game
Look. I'm not saying you should blindly trust Rancid's read on me. That would be the alternate universe. I mean, I'd like to. I'd love to say that. But I'm not. It's theoretically possible for me to have fooled the players who know me best, I guess, especially short-term.In post 3482, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Only in an alternate universe where townies are always right and mafia games are always short.In post 3468, MastinSSK wrote:And again, there's a dissonance via insisting RBD is town yet not taking their read on me into consideration.
...And is removing a late-game mislynch, while potentially also making the survivor be obvtown in the process, costing him a second mislynch.Scenario: Orci is scum. He therefore knows who is town and who isn't. He puts twonon-obvioustownies in.
I almost want to say that AP's competency as scum means he wouldn't bother trying to pull this stunt as scum and would only pull the derp-gambit as town.In post 3486, AngryPidgeon wrote:So ya I didnt even submit on CF.
Actually yeah -In post 3566, Clyton wrote:There is no gain for the mafia roleblocker to RB you.
Why wouldn't a roleblocker block me? Obviously Im not speculating that I was roleblocked by town, I think scum blocked me.In post 3566, Clyton wrote:See AP, this is what I don't understand. What is the rationale for a roleblocker to RB you? If it is a town RB, why RB a claimed cop? Take the chance and use the information he provides (even with fake; importance being using it as an alternative guideline) while RBing other suspects with potential kill power. Based on the kill results, there were two kills, one obviously done by scum, therefore highlighting the importance of RBing the correct target rather than someone who claimed cop. If it is a scum RB, you outright stated the mafia can choose who you will investigate. They can manipulate in many ways possible with this. There is no gain for the mafia roleblocker to RB you.
They have less motivation to do so than they do a regular cop.In post 3571, AngryPidgeon wrote:Why do you think scum would have no motive to do it though?
Uhhh? Ive been townreading you most of yesterday, I dont see where you got the impression I was doing otherwise.In post 3568, The Fox and the Hound wrote:Are you implying that you think we're town? I don't recall this.
In post 1001, AngryPidgeon wrote:Wait, people think this is scum? Has it done something absurdly scummy?In post 874, The Fox and the Hound wrote:I don't see how I could've made 592 as scum. I would have had to fake my thoughts on Mastin to look like I'd posted them in a hydra QT two days prior and I don't go to those kinds of lengths as scum.
In post 2308, AngryPidgeon wrote:Players I wont lynch Today: titan, Orcinus, Mac, Stalin, RBD, Foxhound, Clyton