Page 143 of 314
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:30 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 3549, Myloninja13 wrote:What do you mean by the first question lol?
And I'd assume that there'd be at least a scum off the wagon and another near the end of it too.
Nevermind. I'm just figuring out why you say the "Hi I'm here sorry" everytime.
That's a pretty vague and safe assumption about scummates. Do you want to throw any names out?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:40 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much
yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme
I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:42 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 3543, Tchill13 wrote: In post 3541, Kublai Khan wrote: In post 3539, Tchill13 wrote: In post 3536, Kublai Khan wrote: In post 3530, Tchill13 wrote:if you were asking me...
lalendra, creature, robster, JarJar.
thats most likely bus to least likely bus.
I'm still re-reading, but I'd likely remove Golden Robster from that list. Golden Robster was first to vote WhemeStar in the day and has pretty consistently had him as scum.
well if you're the first to vote when it takes 12, i think, would you really think it'd go through? especially if you vote your scum buddy to distance early? look at his dialogue as the wagon grows. Sure his vote is there but it doesn't seem like he actually wants to be there. he pushes PP quite aggressively and im not a fan of the PP wagon. those reasons are the basis for my robster read.
I'm not at the wagon growing yet (on page 109 atm), so maybe. I'm just surprised to see him mentioned.
Why aren't you a fan of the PenguinPower wagon? I still have strong suspicions about him.
I think a lot of his negative attention comes from the early VT claim. Someone earlier, not sure who or what post, said they'd seen the player PP replace do that sort of "sacrifice" before. quoted from another game i do believe. I can see a VT doing that as a way to "meaningfully" contribute if their activity is low.
but mainly, it's because PP's wagon shot up quickly, as flavor mentioned, while whemes did not. Now we know PP was the main counter wagon to the wheme scum lynch, which is the most important thing.
with that info i'd like to believe at least 1 scum voted off the wagons (dunn), at least one scum voted PP (vax), at least one scum voted Wheme (lalendra, creature, robster, TBG, JarJar).
Okay. I caught up reading. I still town-read Golden Robster though. He comes off as legitimately scum-reading PenguinPower based on PenguinPower's actions & voting patterns (which were sketchy). He got a full head of seam about it, then it get de-railed by a minor thing early in the game by a predecessor. I know that feeling of having a certain scum-read pulled from under you. Golden Robster comes off as transparently sincere.
Plus after Lalendra votes WhemeStar, Golden Robster joins to make it a legit wagon. And yes, I saw the last minute waffle, but it was only lasted a few minutes.
The ones trying to topple the WhemeStar wagon at the point where it became a legit wagon and by-passed PenguinPower were: Gamma Emerald, TehBrawlGuy, Vaxkiller, and especially Creature.
Around and posting, but not joining the WhemeStar wagon: Dunnstral and (much lesser extent) texcat.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:44 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 3551, TehBrawlGuy wrote:huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much
yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme
I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.
Then throw a vote down, brother.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:54 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
In post 3542, Tchill13 wrote:i've yet to ISO wheme but I wanted to with a little feedback in mind on my first impressions.
in all fairness i think if hop and flavor were wrong about a main read it was you but i'm not sure they were.
You say JJD had no other option. The same could be said of your play for a player thats not willing to bus.
Thats all im getting at.
as for the votes off the wheme wagon after wheme was obviously going to be the lynch or at least picking up good steam, why do you think those happened? Dunn's is pretty noticeable.
I think you might misunderstand me here.
JJD had previously called Wheme scum and PP leantown, so when it came down to those wagons, he had no choice but to go Wheme to stay internally consistent.
I had recently subbed in, and never commented on either of those players before I voted Wheme, so if I were Scum, I could've done whatever I wanted without it contradicting my previous reads.
In post 3538, Tchill13 wrote:yes and i agree ignoring context is ignorant... to an extent.
let me ask you this, and i'll discuss jjd more with you but, what do you think of the players that decided not to take a stance on the matter at all and vote else where after jjd began to make this push?
like you said barring a miracle wheme is the lynch so what did others have to gain from moving their vote to places that were not wheme?
I would evaluate those players on a case-by-case basis. If they previously TR Wheme, then staying off makes sense as either alignment - either out of genuine conviction it was a ML, or to feign the same. I'd also view it as more likely to come from inexperienced Scum than experienced Scum, since bad/new players might not correctly read how doomed Wheme was. I'll go take a look at Dunn and see what I make of him.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:56 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
In post 3553, Kublai Khan wrote: In post 3551, TehBrawlGuy wrote:huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much
yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme
I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.
Then throw a vote down, brother.
I still like JJD better
i'm not in a hurry to wagonswap, I just wanted to state that my prior stance of Creaturewagon being meh was no longer valid
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:00 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
In post 3552, Kublai Khan wrote:
The ones trying to topple the WhemeStar wagon at the point where it became a legit wagon and by-passed PenguinPower were: Gamma Emerald,
TehBrawlGuy
, Vaxkiller, and especially Creature.
Can we stop with this?
I never attempted to stop the wagon. I wanted his lynch to go through. I said this
repeatedly.
I attempted to stop him getting lynched before he could claim because that's objectively the correct policy decision.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:11 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
In post 3552, Kublai Khan wrote:
The ones trying to topple the WhemeStar wagon at the point where it became a legit wagon and by-passed PenguinPower were: Gamma Emerald, TehBrawlGuy, Vaxkiller, and especially Creature.
Around and posting, but not joining the WhemeStar wagon: Dunnstral and (much lesser extent) texcat.
also of note is that dunn absolutely did attempt to topple wheme wagon, so why is he in the second group?
In post 3242, Dunnstral wrote:What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.
Wheme isn't scummy around hammer, why would mafia claim dumb protect targets
If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it
If we lynch doctor we lose our way to protect all these mason/ic that prematurely claimed (more bad town play but nothing I could do about it)
VOTE: PenguinPower
and referring to doing a CFD off wheme:
for the record (and because Tchill asked me), though, I think Dunn's town. There is a solid policy argument that lynching an unCCed doc is a bad idea, because you can lynch him later and his lynch is free if a real doc dies. Dunn's not a dumb guy, and Scum!Dunn would've seen me getting raked over the coals for my policy unvotes on Wheme and just avoided putting himself in the quagmire, but town!dunn cares more about not MLing a doctor with confirmed innos alive. I also like the tone in 3242, which feels genuine.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:30 pm
by Dunnstral
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:32 pm
by Golden Robster
VOTE: Dunstrall
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:35 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 3466, TehBrawlGuy wrote:It's an obvious, clumsy bus. It's even more damning when you realize JJD is the only bus that makes sense out of Wheme's votes. Wheme's actions show JJD is also Scum.
agree with bussing but don't agree that JJD did it
if anything the wagon was being stalled at the start and don't think scum would hard bus off the bat
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:39 pm
by Golden Robster
agree with this
this needs to be the focus today especially since FL was nk'd
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:43 pm
by Golden Robster
Tchill reasoning is solid
look at FL reads and look at who stalled the wagon (anybody who was off the wagon, voiced different lynch targets or wasn't talking) and then start lynching from there
still think bussing did happen but not at the start of the wagon if anything
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 3523, Tchill13 wrote:vax,
dunn
, tbg,
creature
. major red flages there they resisted the wheme lynch HARD. very suspicious of all of these players.
lalendra
, jarjar, robster,
gamma
are players im very suspicious of based on individual play.
if you're not named your either town or null.
potential scum on wagon
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:49 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 3549, Myloninja13 wrote:And I'd assume that there'd be at least a scum off the wagon and another near the end of it too.
nice I agree
mylon gets a pass d3
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:51 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 3242, Dunnstral wrote:What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.
Wheme isn't scummy around hammer, why would mafia claim dumb protect targets
If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it
If we lynch doctor we lose our way to protect all these mason/ic that prematurely claimed (more bad town play but nothing I could do about it)
VOTE: PenguinPower
In post 3252, Dunnstral wrote:I didn't have an opinion on you, I don't like how you're pushing the wheme lynch through
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:51 pm
by Myloninja13
Hehe, I get a "Get out of lynch" card for today!
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:00 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 3513, Tchill13 wrote:was creature stalling for more reads or stalling because he's scum though?
you just said
In post 3505, Tchill13 wrote:anyone who tried to steer a lynch in any other direction after THIS post needs to be looked at
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:14 am
by Dunnstral
In post 3565, Golden Robster wrote: In post 3242, Dunnstral wrote:What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.
Wheme isn't scummy around hammer, why would mafia claim dumb protect targets
If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it
If we lynch doctor we lose our way to protect all these mason/ic that prematurely claimed (more bad town play but nothing I could do about it)
VOTE: PenguinPower
In post 3252, Dunnstral wrote:I didn't have an opinion on you, I don't like how you're pushing the wheme lynch through
"If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it"
I stand by that
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:41 am
by TehBrawlGuy
i mean if you're going to be completely useless and only show up when you get beetlejuiced we can absolutely reconsider that
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:11 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 3513, Tchill13 wrote:was creature stalling for more reads or stalling because he's scum though?
He was stalling because he's scum. If he was reaction testing, he would have let us know today and tell us what he learned from it instead of:
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:23 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 3521, Tchill13 wrote:concerning jarjar... is he capable of bussing to this extreme? he was hell bent on lynching wheme the whole time and while i would imagine scum bussed i would like to direct ppl towards lalendra's naked vote on wheme.
Clearly I can just say anything if I was scum but I will tell you that I think 90% of the time bussing is poor strategy and done by bad scum that thinks they are good.
I bus for 2 reasons:
- Scum is being useless. Since I am a very anti-lurker player I generally have no choice but to bus a lurking scumbuddy to stay true to my meta.
- Scum has been been caught. And this isn't really even considered bussing. It's just something that is unfortunate and has to be done.
In either case, u will never see me hardcore make sure a lynch goes through unless it was a foregone conclusion which the wheme lynch was not.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:24 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 3522, Tchill13 wrote: In post 3242, Dunnstral wrote:What's wrong with you guys? I don't remember wheme being so scummy that we ignore good strategy and just lynch him through a doctor claim, I was under the impression that this was basically a lurker/lynchbait day.
Wheme isn't scummy around hammer, why would mafia claim dumb protect targets
If Wheme is mafia he gets caught later and we lynch him over any other doc claim if it comes to it
If we lynch doctor we lose our way to protect all these mason/ic that prematurely claimed (more bad town play but nothing I could do about it)
VOTE: PenguinPower
and as far as wagon stallers go this would be my first vote.
Good read tho this would probably be my 2nd choice.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:25 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 3523, Tchill13 wrote:vax, dunn, tbg, creature. major red flages there they resisted the wheme lynch HARD. very suspicious of all of these players.
lalendra, jarjar, robster, gamma are players im very suspicious of based on individual play.
if you're not named your either town or null.
What about my individual play don't u like? I feel like this has been one of my more pro-town games.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:32 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 3524, TehBrawlGuy wrote:how is that extreme bussing? wheme's at L-2 there and there's absolutely no counterwagon
unless JJD is incredibly bad he sees the writing on the wall there.
were you not around? It was like pulling teeth getting those 12 votes on wheme. The writing was most definately NOT on the wall.
In post 3524, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I haven't played with him before to gauge skill level, but he's clearly better than awful.
I'm a fuggin mafia prodigy yo. Trust me, only an awful scum player would push a scumbuddy as hard as I pushed wheme.
You cant just say "hurr durr wifom" for everything that happens in a game of mafia. U might was well start using a RNG to pick scum at that point.
Pro-town play generally comes from town and anti-town play generally comes from scum. Don't convolute everything.