Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[Mia and Maya Fey]

Yeah, I put a great deal more into early reads before people, especially me, stray into the wilderness. But I did take into account jjh's later reads which is why I'm hesitant to say yes you're definitely scum buddies with Titus.

Let's say you're town and your strongest townread is Titus, that means you think I'm scum. Well I'm not, which means, like I said to house, that your read is bad or you're scum. So it would help me a lot of you could evaluate, Titus, house and me.

I'll do the same in the next day or so I'll go over my thoughts of everyone in more detail. It would be awesome if house and Titus could too.

I did come into this day thinking I’d probably vote you but I really like your posting today so I think I might have been influenced by your wrong read on my slot. I want to see House re-evaluate yours and mine interactions and still tell me if he thinks you and me make sense as a team.

I want to get this right. I don’t want the dead thread mad at me, so I will re-ISO all 3 of you. I hate to lose. In Happy Face, we got rid of the entire scumteam but the last one fooled us all and we lost because of it.

[Mia and Maya Fey]

Well clearly you were wrong with jjh and omgusing didnt do anything beneficial for you here in terms of gaining reads.

Yes, I should probably do that a lot less and pay more attention to the thought process behind it but it’s hard not to think the slot who’s pushing me isn’t scum in general. I was tr him before he flipped and had been re-evaluating my read on him sometime before that. All of this is in my ISO. You should ISO me in Necromancer. I literally flipped out over two rvs joke votes on me and was almost miselimed in under two hours.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m feeling more and more annoyed by how all of my reads are being ignored this game.

[Titus]

I'm in the position where scum must be defending me. Mastina's reads are wrong, so gamma would be shot. That leaves mastina as the wrong voter.

With scum defending me though, that means they presume that I would decide wrong as well (or at least not persuade mastina of my towniness).

The goal for me today has to be sorting moongrass. I know at least one scum is defending me. If both scum are defending me, that means moongrass is town and will be the suggested miselimination.

There's no point in no elimination as just gamma or mastina will be killed.

This leaves my suggestion that the four of us in the pool try to sort ourselves out. Once we reach a decision, then conftown chime in.

[Titus]

Vote Count 1.05

jjh927 (4):

Mia and Maya Fey, Not_Mafia, Titus, cyrus62,

Not Known 15 (3):

mastina, jjh927, Moongrass,

Free Money Free Tea (2):

House, DrippingGoofball,

Moongrass (2):

nomnomnom, Not Known 15,

cyrus62 (1):

Gamma Emerald,

mastina (1):

Free Money Free Tea,

Mia and Maya Fey (0):

nomnomnom (0):

House (0):

Not_Mafia (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

Titus (0):

DrippingGoofball (0):

No Euphemization (0):

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to euphemize and

7

to have no euphemization.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-06-17 17:00:00). At Deadline, currently No Euphemization will occur.

Vote Count 1.06

Not Known 15 (5):

mastina, jjh927, Moongrass, nomnomnom, DrippingGoofball,

jjh927 (4):

Mia and Maya Fey, Not_Mafia, Titus, cyrus62,

Free Money Free Tea (1):

House,

Moongrass (1):

Not Known 15,

cyrus62 (1):

Gamma Emerald,

mastina (1):

Free Money Free Tea,

Mia and Maya Fey (0):

nomnomnom (0):

House (0):

Not_Mafia (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

Titus (0):

DrippingGoofball (0):

No Euphemization (0):

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to euphemize and

7

to have no euphemization.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-06-17 17:00:00). At Deadline, currently No Euphemization will occur.

Looking at these wagons, I initially want to say Mia and Moongrass scum but it's more complicated than that.

I know one of Mia/Moongrass must be scum.

I know that if Moongrass is town, then an all town counterwagon sprung up to a scum lead JJH.
If Mia is town, then Moongrass is bussing.

The leaders of large wagons tend not to be scum but no scum jumped on jjh.

If we suppose the theory scum bussed NK early, then Moongrass is the only real possible choice. The onslaught of town made his wagon inevitable.

[Titus]

I'm seeing that theory less and less though.

[Titus]

Vote Count 3.03

Titus (4):

jjh927, Moongrass, mastina, cyrus62,

Moongrass (3):

House, Titus, Gamma Emerald,

jjh927 (0):

cyrus62 (0):

House (0):

Mia and Maya Fey (0):

mastina (0):

Not_Mafia (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

DrippingGoofball (0):

No Euphemization (0):

Not Voting (3):

DrippingGoofball, Not_Mafia, Mia and Maya Fey,

With 10 alive, it takes

6

to euphemize and

5

to have no euphemization.

The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2021-06-27 16:00:00). At Deadline, currently No Euphemization will occur.

If moongrass is town, scum refused to hammer me by doubling up on the back end. House couldn't though. He was pretty trapped in the Titus town narrative.

Both scum going after moongrass would make no sense with me on the table (supposing house and mia both scum).

I'm highly inclined to think Moongrass is scum here.

[Titus]

@Moongrass, From both our perspectives, at least one scum is defending me. Which do you think it is and why? I know you don't think it's both because you want to vote me here, but I want to see your thought process here. Even if I haven't sorted you, your answer will help me determine who scum is.

@House, For both of us to be town, like your position is, the hydra and moongrass must be scum. Nancy's defense of me looks quite similar to the large theme we just finished. So where are the differences? Why does Nancy pocket me here?

@Nancy, From my perspective either you're scum or house is at a minimum. If you think I am town, where did House's pocket of me start?

[Titus]

By the votes, I want to say Moongrass and Maya.

By the play, I want Moongrass and House.

[Titus]

I'm still very open to Moongrass town though.

[Titus]

Right now, I think the goal for Moongrass scum is to push me, get mastina and gamma on board and then have the other scum defending me hammer. This would suggest but not prove a Mia/Moon team due to Mia not voting Moon yesterday and softening (partially) her stance here.

The problem with that scenario is that House's play looks more like agency capture (just barely) and that I don't think mastina votes outside of me/House.

[Titus]

It makes sense for scum!Feys to now townread her as well

I can 100% prove this to be false. The implication here is that I didn’t start tr her until now when I was hard defending her on D2.

Arguing about who defended me first when I had the shittiest reads in the game is arguably not a point in favor as I had use to scum. We need to look at genuiness.

[DkKoba]

hi too lazy to switch accounts - ending day early there was so.bad and im kinda mad about it. We're not voting here until at least half the deadline is over.
Based on my skims i think within moon/house is most likely to me and titus is prob town. House more likely than moon

[Titus]

@Koba, if you view me as town, it has to be moon/house.

[House]

@House, For both of us to be town, like your position is, the hydra and moongrass must be scum. Nancy's defense of me looks quite similar to the large theme we just finished. So where are the differences? Why does Nancy pocket me here?

I wouldn't know. I wasn't in that game, and I don't read dead games for comparisons.

Even if I did, in mostly checked out. I was in it to get an answer. I'm there. It's up to y'all to find your way there.

[House]

@House, For both of us to be town, like your position is, the hydra and moongrass must be scum. Nancy's defense of me looks quite similar to the large theme we just finished. So where are the differences? Why does Nancy pocket me here?

I wouldn't know. I wasn't in that game, and I don't read dead games for comparisons.

Even if I did, I'm mostly checked out. I was in it to get an answer. I'm there. It's up to y'all to find your way there.

[Moongrass]

I actually hate this. Based on the everything I think that Titus has to be scum here, but I'm confused about that leaving a town player townreading scum. If I say the team is actually House/Hydra then that makes more sense because then no town player has a bad read, it's just Tmi.

Considering noone who is confirmed town except Gamma has a townread on Titus, it's surprising that two slots have been defending her the whole game.

So here I am convinced that Titus is scum but then not so sure because of the reads on the slot. If it really is as simple as House/Titus it's easily a win if it's house/hydra then we're doomed.

Seeing as the combinations both involve house I think that's the safest vote today. I would like to gain more certainty on his buddy before anyone votes though.

[Moongrass]

I don't like nom calling cyrus miselimination bait. He's near a universal townread.

That's not true at all.
That call is also because I know Cyrus as a player and I read the reasons that some slots have to vote there and I call that pure mislimbait because this is what I know of Cyrus' playstyle.
I also disagree with Moon calling the read easy. I think town!Cyrus and scum!Cyrus actually have subtle differences between them that are not immediately obvious.

This from Titus reads like a scum push since she calls Cyrus a universal townread rather than a townread which shows an awareness of game state (who reads who) rather than a solving mindset (I think cyrus is town for x reasons). It's just a bad reason to push combined with bad intent makes me more certain on scum Titus.

[Titus]

Considering noone who is confirmed town except Gamma has a townread on Titus, it's surprising that two slots have been defending her the whole game.

DGB died townreading me.

[Moongrass]

Overall, I think people who are posting but fall in the consensus null range are far more deserving of a wagon

A lot of people think i'm town though

I think largely this is the type of gamestate where scums could be very happy lurking the game out considering the high amount of noise that has happened with certain slots, so I think i'd be satisfied with pushes going FMFT and Titus' way.

You know rereading this game something feels quite off right at the beginning and I'm unsure what to make of some things.
I changed my mind about FMFT UNVOTE:

Maybe it's just NK and I'm overthinking this VOTE: NK

This posting from Nom and House gives me the feeling that house is trying to redirect attention away from idle slots and wants a lim in active players who are a null read. Could be redirection from Titus, seeing as Titus was the next push after FMFT.

Yes Nom scumread me but I didn't intervene in any of her pushes, I ignored her push on me and was happy to watch her explore other options. I don't need to redirect her attention because I don't have a buddy to protect.

I'm going through her ISO because I still don't understand why she was the NK N1. Yeah it could have been a set up after her scumread of my NK hammer but leaving her would have been a better set up to get me limmed D2.

D2 I'm pretty ready for a Titus lim but then FMFT gets an easy vote from Titus and House. I think maybe I misread Titus because of her tone and am happy to vote FMFT to get a stronger PoE. D3 determined it must be Titus again and tried to tell jjh that Cyrus must be town based on Titus willing to lim him for no reason, which reeks of going with the flow, and then Cyrus comes up with a me/titus poe which is absurd so I vote not expecting a hammer or two NKs to leave me in my current position.

With House fighting the wagons on Titus and pushing anywhere else is pretty condemning, it's almost too obvious and both Titus and House have been happy to feed us WIFOM about not being this bad as scum, but all roads seem to lead back to them as the scumteam.

I think I'm fine with going all in on Titus/House but any opinions on hydra/house would be helpful. About Hydra/House I do believe that House was pretending to be masons with hydra D1 to give us this paranoia today, in case he got flipped, making connections to lead us awry on a buddy down the track.

House reaching out to Gamma today instead of to the 1 town person left unconfirmed gives me the impression that he is comfortable having two votes from him and his buddy and he needs to get an outside vote since his PoE is two unconfirmed town and he sure is hell isn't getting mastina's vote.

Tl;dr I'm all in on Titus/House.

[Moongrass]

Considering noone who is confirmed town except Gamma has a townread on Titus, it's surprising that two slots have been defending her the whole game.

DGB died townreading me.

DGB didn't seem very interested in this game.

[Mia and Maya Fey]

@Moongrass, From both our perspectives, at least one scum is defending me. Which do you think it is and why? I know you don't think it's both because you want to vote me here, but I want to see your thought process here. Even if I haven't sorted you, your answer will help me determine who scum is.

@House, For both of us to be town, like your position is, the hydra and moongrass must be scum. Nancy's defense of me looks quite similar to the large theme we just finished. So where are the differences? Why does Nancy pocket me here?

@Nancy, From my perspective either you're scum or house is at a minimum. If you think I am town, where did House's pocket of me start?

On d2 he hardpushed you then did a complete 180. I also intensely dislike him pushing moon and me as the team. I just would expect town!House to critically analyze our interactions and realize how absurd that is.

[Mia and Maya Fey]

It makes sense for scum!Feys to now townread her as well

I can 100% prove this to be false. The implication here is that I didn’t start tr her until now when I was hard defending her on D2.

Arguing about who defended me first when I had the shittiest reads in the game is arguably not a point in favor as I had use to scum. We need to look at genuiness.

Not when they’re literally rewriting history. In that recent game I won as town under a different account, that’s what scum did. They claimed to have locktowned me going into Elo but the reality was that they only actually said I was “more likely to be town” than the other player. They only townlocked me after it was beyond obvious but they kept trying to spin it like they had townlocked me right out of the gate when that was clearly not true.

[Moongrass]

Hydra, I think you're town. Please work with me to win this game. Titus house are both pushing you/me as scum and trying to get their 3rd vote from Gamma. If you can see me as town and Titus as scum we win here.

[Mia and Maya Fey]

I actually hate this. Based on the everything I think that Titus has to be scum here, but I'm confused about that leaving a town player townreading scum. If I say the team is actually House/Hydra then that makes more sense because then no town player has a bad read, it's just Tmi.

Considering noone who is confirmed town except Gamma has a townread on Titus, it's surprising that two slots have been defending her the whole game.

So here I am convinced that Titus is scum but then not so sure because of the reads on the slot. If it really is as simple as House/Titus it's easily a win if it's house/hydra then we're doomed.

Seeing as the combinations both involve house I think that's the safest vote today. I would like to gain more certainty on his buddy before anyone votes though.

I’m torn between you and Titus on which one of you is the other unconfirmed townie. House is making 0 effort to sort me and continues to double/triple down on a you/me team which is crazy af.