↑ Gammagooey wrote:
Voting someone because another unflipped scumread of yours doesn't want them lynched is pretttty awful titus.
Awful? Yes. Scummy? No. I think a lot of people are trying to push this wagon on awful rather than scummy, and I just have to wonder at the timing of it.
↑ vezokpiraka wrote:
Also Titus is probably scum. Aronis seems like a mislynch like TSO was and both TTH and titus jumped on him while UT is on titus.
Your posts seem to be getting progressively worse, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
↑ Oversoul wrote:
The only people that we should be discussing for lynch are ActionDan, Espeonage, Singersigner, Titus, and Untrod Tripod.
Eh..., possibly, YES, NO, torn on this one
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Titus wrote:@Oversoul, how am I approaching negative utlity?
The sheer quantity of your posts is enough to drown town driven thought. It creates confusion and a smokescreen that the scum are better able to hide in. I don't mean to be offensive, but the content quality of your posts is not enough to offset the benefits given to scum.
pedit:
People went after TSO because he was an easy lynch. He was not really connected with the game and that made him vulnerable and an easy target. Plus, I think he was in the out-group. No one wants to lynch their friends on the first day. It is a subconcious action that seems to generally hold true, at least across the games I have played/observed. I don't think TSO had many friends in this game.
Aronis is in a similar position. I think Aronis is also in the out-group. I think Aronis is also disconnected from the game and that makes him a vulnerable/easy target. The information gained based on Aronis's interactions is negligible, just like the information gained from TSO's interactions was negligible. They both did not have connections because they were disconnected from the game. I think both TSO and Aronis are students and a lot of people seem to be forgetting that right now is finals season for American education.
Fferylt also endorsed the TSO wagon with a lot of force, so Fferylt supporting this wagon is not exactly the biggest vote of confidence. I actually really disagree with Fferylt on a lot of her reads/positions this game. I also think that she is doing a poor job of leading this town. I fear we are headed into a dark tunnel with no escape as long as Fferylt is at the helm. I think this is a function of the fact that Fferylt is an IC right now, which tends to skew perceptions of not only the IC itself, but also the other people in the game. No one really is trying to critically discuss the game with Fferylt so when shitty ideas like the TSO wagon are proposed no one is around to say "No, that is actually a shitty idea".
I actually find it disconcerting that we do not have much more interaction from Fferylt's teammates about this game given the fact that they are ALL DEAD. I would expect they would want to funnel all of their thoughts into the game through her given her confirmed town status. But that is a topic for another time. I know I have been neglecting my own teammates' games.
Mollie wants to marry this post.
↑ TellTaleHeart wrote: ↑ Oversoul wrote:We are NOT going to waste our second lynch on another person like TSO. This means that Aronis is off the table for lynch today.
The only people that we should be discussing for lynch are ActionDan, Espeonage, Singersigner, Titus, and Untrod Tripod.
"We're only lynching between these people because
I'm
scumreading them."
Titus, and now you?
Excuse me, this goes out to everyone in this game: Who the fuck do you people think you are?
That is really not what he said. Are you even reading this game, because everything you've posted lately seems to point to you not doing so.
↑ Aronis wrote:Well my Bulba read hasn't really changed at all because he hasn't posted that much recently. [and if he did, titus probably drowned it out]
What does that have to do with anything? When was the last time you revisited that read? Was it at any time during the major day?
↑ Oversoul wrote:Sure, some are trying to form a townbloc but they are doing it with the wrong players and for the wrong reasons.
Who are the right players, and what are the right reasons?
↑ Untrod Tripod wrote:well yeah, oversoul is just bullshitting and trying to get in good with titus and ffery for some stupid reason
I have a problem with just about everything in this sentence. It seems like a low blow and meant solely to discredit. Having a hard time seeing the town motivation here.
↑ fferyllt wrote:
(10) T S O: Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird [Lynch!]
We've gone back and forth about you. Also about CDB. Of the players on the TSO wagon, we can't see most of them as remotely scum.
There are 5 votes on that wagon that I really don't like. I know they're not all scum, but surely you can see the problem with you not seeing any of them being "remotely scum". Heck, simple VCA theory should tell you to reset.
↑ singersigner wrote:
I want to trust Nacho I really do but sometimes he can be wrong and Titus trued to appeal to by emotion and I'm so sad over it so can you see my point of view?
How is asking you questions appealing to your emotion?
↑ vezokpiraka wrote:
So most of this hinges on me being scum with CDB? And the fact that CDB didn't give straight up reads? Either you're just not trying and failing at being town or you are scum grasping for reasons. I think you're scum.
That is so far from what she said that I'm starting to wonder if you're doing this on purpose.
↑ singersigner wrote:I pointed out that people were in prod range because like Oversoul already stated, Titus is/was reaching negative utility at this point, and people were falling behind, being absent, etc. I've been very vocal about my disappointment in such. But now that you bring it up again, it's particularly interesting because Titus claimed to need a wagon on TTH to bring her back and engaged in the game, yet no mention when she went missing again. Another example of where I think Titus is just talking out of her ass.
I think the time of day also has a lot to do with it. When she voted TTH for pressure, we only had minor day information and no pressure based on lynch wagons. Now that's not the case, and there's a lot more to go off of. Also, we're near deadline, and she's townreading TTH. Why in the heck would she pressure vote TTH at this point?
↑ singersigner wrote:
With regards to the claiming issue: did you not want two lynches? I prioritized accordingly. I felt as though at the very least, a town PR would make it a priority to claim so close to losing the opportunity of another lynch that without it, it didn't seem like we were missing anything because she was either VT or scum.
I had a problem with your suggestion that we line up both lynches at once. This ignored the obvious utility of lynch 1 in giving information to select lynch 2. Your solution, though, was to limit information, select both lynches at once, and lynch in succession. I'm having a hard time seeing the town motivation in that.
↑ singersigner wrote:
What about the Titus wagon is scummy? You don't have to say because I'm on it; I think that's implied by your read of me. I am but one person, so I'd like to know exactly what/who you have a problem with?
It sprung up quickly based off the idea of "I don't understand Titus, and that annoys me" and ran counter to yours, essentially defusing it. There's nothing about the way that wagon built up that sits right with me.
@Cheetory: I think your premise is flawed, and that you're taking that premise, forming a conclusion, and then working backwards and fitting everything towards that conclusion. First off, do you really think Titus is leader material? Titus can barely get people to pay attention to her at best of times, shouting at them in Team Mafia is not going to do much. In that regard, finding town and focusing on team building is a very sound and pro-town strategy. Scum will be wanting to tear apart, not put together, and regardless of what you might think, finding other town is going to be key to winning the game. And that's not to say that Titus isn't scumhunting. She's been very clear about who she finds scummy and who she thinks is town, and she's questioned several players to understand them better. Sure she's not super pushing her scumreads, but we're close to deadline, and she's focusing on working with other town and securing a lynch that everyone can agree on. I'm not really seeing what's scummy here.
↑ Cheetory6 wrote:I have no self-control. -.-
Bulba wrote:Explain to me how it's scum motivated.
Why does townTitus detect? Why does townTitus detect and casually claim? Think about it. If you still don't get it, think about it some more.
Just because you chose to detect during the minor night doesn't mean that you're scum. There's actually several pro-town reasons to do so. Heck, I detected during the night, and I'm not scum. And Titus detecting TSO, who she was scumreading, is not scummy either, no matter how much you try to tell us it is.
↑ Cheetory6 wrote:
Bulba wrote:Nope. Still don't get it. Traces happen during the minor nights, so I'm not seeing how Esp being traced would put him in any danger.
I'm considered a townread by some people in this game [and before you start screaming and shouting about how I'm not, go away kthx]. If Espeonage gets traced to me on Minor Day 2 then he looks like scum, much in the same manner TTH was put under scrutiny for. If you can't understand that, then I honestly don't understand what more to say to you. Claiming his action now in a harmless "I don't know what I'm doing" manner makes him look like VI instead of scum.
Okay, I think I'm starting to see what the problem is. You're locked in this false conclusion that only scum have a reason to try to figure out other players' signs. Ergo, scum will only detect and town will only trace. That's wrong, and you need to get that out of your system right now. On the bright side, I think this makes you extremely likely to be town, although extremely misguided and seeing the game through the wrong lens.
↑ Cheetory6 wrote:
Bulba wrote:I actually think Ika townreading her is way stranger. If you were to look at possible buddying, it should be from Ika, not from Titus. I take the fact they've connected and are trying to work together very promising.
ika isn't townreading her?
Look again. Most of those posts have been GiF.
↑ Cheetory6 wrote:
Bulba wrote:The timing of Esp's suspicions were off. He did so right after Mollie called Tammy scum, essentially piggybacking off of that. His attack was opportunistic. Was anyone else casting suspicion at Tammy during that time for those reasons? No, so Titus is not in the same boat, and her paranoia is a little bit more in line from what I'd expect coming from the type of player Titus is. She's way too fast to draw connections, even when there are none, and it naturally makes her paranoid. I actually take that paranoia as a good sign.
Except this wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about people taking potshots at Tammy for replacing.
You asked me what was different between Titus's suspicion of Tammy and Esp's. I told you. Don't go changing the goal posts on me now.
↑ Cheetory6 wrote:Fuck this game.
UNVOTE:
If CDB flips town I hope we all get to throw a party at the uselessness of all of the nothing we'll have to analyze D2 because of all the people just blanksheeping ffery.
Until you unvoted, Titus's wagon was leading. You going woe is me concerning the CDB wagon and not getting your way doesn't hold as much weight here.
↑ hitogoroshi wrote:
(6)
Titus:
Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Aronis, singersigner [L-4]
Just going to reiterate how bad the composition of this wagon is. Someone will definitely want to revisit this d2. I'm thinking there's 2 scum here.
@Ffery: Too tired to do more concerning my Singer read, but suffice to say I didn't like Zar's reaction to Tammy. I felt the switch was heavily scum motivated, unlike the others we've seen (also pay attention that nothing was said about Empire, but the TTH switch, which happened at the same time was heavily criticized.). This is the game that is weighted the most, and is therefore the one that teams want to make sure they win. If Zar was town, there would not be the same amount of urgency, but if he was scum and was failing, he would need a massive bail out. In comes Empire, and while I admit his reads list is good, he never really follows up on it or pushes it hard. In fact, I remember him being on the sidelines when it came down to the bane. Also note that my bane wagon was his counter wagon, and even though he was most agreed on to be baned, my wagon sprung up as the "only choice" rather quickly and with no explanation. Empire's replace out was null. Singer's play here has been lackluster. I see her posts being very wordy but with minimal content. Her reads are extremely basic, and her cases are nothing new or spectacular. Her primary focus was on lynching TTH for "information", even though there were other lynches that could have done the same. Watch as she never drops the read, but keeps adding BS reasoning to it, which again, was nothing new and had already been refuted. Her final reason was to force a claim, aka rolefishing, as she seemed focused more on finding out TTH's role, rather than alignment. Her early fight with Titus was useless, as she really avoided giving a stance on her. It was mainly noise meant to make her look busy. And wouldn't you know, by the time she actually got a read, Titus was being poked more and more. Finally, she plants a vote, but only when a wagon takes off, relieving the pressure from her. Take a good look at her case, Ffery. It's garbage. She's stretching for her points, and you know it. Also note how Singer reacted to Gamma when he asked her to give a read on him. Now, if she was town and thought it was a trap, or something of the sort, I'd expect her to straight up refuse, or say "screw you", but she doesn't. Instead, she dances around the question, refusing to be locked into a read, because if she is, she will be held accountable to that read and progression later. That's not a town thought process, and you freaking know it. Finally, she throws suspicion at Oversoul for Tammy's switch. You should know why that's scummy, Ffery. Your team was in that game, as was mine and Regfan. You know the story there. Regfan knows the story there. And you think for one minute he'd really be suspicious of the slot knowing that if he was town? Heck no! That was fake, Ffery. It was a feeler meant to see if they could tear down Oversoul's obv. town status. I'm actually baffled that more people didn't pile on top of that, but I guess it pays to be oblivious. And that's just what I can think of with a sleep-addled brain. So tell me, Ffery, why the crap are you town reading her?
Vote ChannelDelibird
Balls in your court.
@Mod
: I'm going out of town and will be V/LA until April 27.
