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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:01 am
by Boem_u_dusi
I feel there is a lot tension here around kraska's possible lynch, not completely sure what to make of it.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:32 am
by kraska77
In post 3723, Zachstralkita wrote:convoluted and hyperbolic.... yea... descriptive words aren't exactly how you rebuttal an argument. you need to address it
habibi
you are wrong about me and adamant about it. if you think i give a crap what your other reads are, im gonna laugh
also i did say what was wrong with agar's case. and linked implosion's rebuttal of it, it's already been addressed and im not a fan of redundancy
..........
bruh
oh i knew someone was going to say that, which is why i wrote this V
In post 3720, kraska77 wrote:Agar's case on performer Is convoluted and hyperbolic. I trust my senses when it comes to picking up on stuff like this. As opposed to airicknumbers' vote/read on performer for example which felt organic, gradual and genuine(airicknumbers is currently null leaning town for me)
i have no qualms with airick's vote as i was able to see the progression and the motivation behind it. so im not scumreading agar simply because he's voting me
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:39 am
by kraska77
In post 3724, Zachstralkita wrote:Neither of them are scum they just death tunnel each other and Wake doesn't know when to quit
ive seen hardcore TvT death-tunneling, this one feels off. their interactions with other players make me think they're not both scum together, but one of them is scum and its titus most probably as her posts feel more manipulative. but im not really into sorting either of them atm because their ISOs are loaded with wifom garbage that i dont care to sift through
it's there for comedic relief
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:43 am
by kraska77
ive seen hardcore TvT death-tunneling before*****
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:41 am
by PeregrineV
In post 1065, Wake1 wrote: In post 1062, podoboq wrote:OK, I'm gonna go out a huge limb here. Please somebody with significantly more site experience than I look into this.
In Secret Alt Mafia 2, Joey Tribbiani scumslipped by accidentally linking to the Mafia PT. When people clicked the link, they got an error screen that says "You are not authorised to read this topic." This happened because he prepared his wall inside of the Mafia PT, and when he typed (post)74(/post), it linked to the thread he typed it in, not the main thread, where the post he intended to reference lied.
Now it's possible that I'm misunderstanding some of how that works, because I only vaguely know this story from TPP talking about it in Musical Mafia, but I'm seeing the same symptoms of it here. If I'm wrong here, and this is nothing, then sorry I brought it up, we can move on. But if I'm right, and this is the same thing, it's just straight up a scumslip. Like, a real one.
Wake posted a similarly broken url, which leads to a topic I don't have access to:
Here is the slip from Secret Alt Mafia 2. Scroll down to read the explanation of how it's a slip.
Again, apologies if I'm misunderstanding something and this is all nothing.
As I've been allowed in the past, I've used old PTs of mine that only I have access to to gather my thoughts, collect ISOs, and update my Reads List.
Apparently my Reads List contained a link to that hidden PT. I can't make a new PT, but I can use an old one from my old Large Normal.
Just saw podoq's thing about the bad link.
The link is such that it directly references 8 separate post numbers in your "mystery PT". However, each link goes back to a single post.
I don't like it.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:43 am
by Airick10
Welcome to the game Kraska and kudos for all the reading up you've done!
To comment on a few things.
- Really guys? Hangman? No wonder this is a 150 page game.
- Regarding AGar and Implosion. I think they both make good points defending and arguing against Performer. For example, I DO find a non-lynch vote to be a scummove especially on post
1130. Non-lynch votes that far into a game should really be flagged. It is in the town's best interest to lynch someone. As far as Implosion's point -> AGar implies what he calls 'active lurking'. He points out posts
1024 and 1025. The problem is that Performer posts six times in a span of an hour and continues throughout that day if you look at the timestamps. I'm not looking at content, because Agar wasn't looking at content. Agar's point is false here. True, Performer hasn't been an active poster throughout the game, but I would not charge him for 'active lurking'. I do think there's enough examples Agar posts that can be looked on as scummy behavior to merit suspicion, but there are faults.
So I'm happy to have heard from Performer's replacement. I am suspicious not so much over timeframes of posting and use of words, but suspicious on the voting moves. However, I really like Kraska's posts in this game.
Unvote
A few reasons
- Kraska isn't defending Performer's actions. In some cases, she's understanding the town's reads on Performer. It's quite easy to come in and be in defense mode. She's actively digging into Agar's case along with implosion. One may say, attacking Agar IS defending. No, the difference is she has not defended Performer's posts or votes and tried to interpret why he said or did the things he did. She is looking at someone else's case on Performer. There's a difference here. I'd be much more suspicious if she tried to defend why he voted one way or another.
- Here's a big one for me. She hasn't claimed.
She comes into this game and see she's at L-2 knowing the town is playing hangman just waiting for her to claim a power role to save her life. I believe scum would immediately claim knowing one scum is already dead and try and divert anything she can away from that lynch. Kraska not only has remained silent on her role, she's actively giving reads and looking for scum. Big time town move as far as I'm concerned.
I only have one issue with Kraska
In post 3709, kraska77 wrote:i'll vote AGar or mirhawk today
i want to see what AGar and those sheeping him have to say about my post and implosion's defense of performer
noone's allowed to keep their vote on me before they state why they're keeping it
VOTE: mirhawk for now
First of all, people aren't going to tell you why their vote is kept. Just get ready for that. Worthless statement.
Second, you've mentioned Agar's case a number of times that I can take that as a reason to vote him. But why the vote on Mirhawk? Other then he's on your scum read list, can you explain why? This appears like another vote on Mirhawk with no explanation. I like that you're hunting Agar, but not really hunting Mirhawk.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:44 am
by PeregrineV
How did you arrive at this calculation?
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:45 am
by PeregrineV
In post 3330, Wake1 wrote:Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?
(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')
AGar
~ Yes/No
Airick10
~ Yes/No
Almost50
~ Yes/No
Beeboy
~ Yes/No
Boem_u_dusi
~ Yes/No
Dunnstral
~ Yes/No
implosion
~ Yes/No
Mirhawk
~ Yes/No
PeregrineV
~ Yes/No
Performer
~ Yes/No
podoboq
~ Yes/No
shannon
~ Yes/No
Titus
~ Yes/No
Transcend
~ Yes/No
Varsoon
~ Yes/No
Vedith
~ Yes/No
Zachstralkita
~ Yes/No
Probably not.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:51 am
by Airick10
In post 3685, Mirhawk wrote:
I'm 100% certain that don't lynch me until I read the game is not alignment indicative. Nor is refusing to claim for the same reason. For what reason would you attribute this behavior to town?
Refusing to claim is very town in my eyes. My reason is posted in 3729. She's not desperate. Scum is desperate.
In post 3689, Mirhawk wrote:Dunn why are you against a Kraska lynch today. What specifically in her demeanor made you think she was a bad lynch?
Mirhawk - why are you against a Kraska lynch? Why are you asking Dunn? Last time I checked, your vote is on Dunn.... not Kraska.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:35 am
by Zachstralkita
Airick10 wrote: In post 3685, Mirhawk wrote:
I'm 100% certain that don't lynch me until I read the game is not alignment indicative. Nor is refusing to claim for the same reason. For what reason would you attribute this behavior to town?
Refusing to claim is very town in my eyes.
I've seen scum not claim at L-1 twice
Of course in that game we lynched the town bp after he did not claim and selfvoted so....
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:38 am
by podoboq
In post 1073, podoboq wrote:Actually better yet, real confirmation that Wake is telling the truth:
Post numbers are sorted chronologically. Post 0 in this game is 8019556, but the post that Wake's link directs to is 671742, which has to be far before the mafia PT was created.
Sorry Wake.
I'm gonna go be sad in a corner somewhere.
It appears that all posts on mafiascum share a universal numbering system. So post X+1 is the next post made chronologically after post X, regardless of what thread those two posts take place in. In other words, the original post in this game was the eight millionth post on mafiascum plus some change, while the quote that Wake accidentally links to isn't even as recent as the seven millionth, meaning it couldn't have been in the mafia PT to this game, as likely the mafia PT is also around the eight million mark.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:41 am
by Boem_u_dusi
That's some cool trivia
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:43 am
by podoboq
If I'm right. I haven't researched it that much, but it's consistent so far among all the cases I've looked at.
It's definitely a tool I'll use in the future if I see a supposed slip like that again.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:47 am
by Airick10
In post 3734, Zachstralkita wrote:
I've seen scum not claim at L-1 twice
Of course in that game we lynched the town bp after he did not claim and selfvoted so....
Sure, but were they replacements at L1 or L2? I haven't seen that before.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:52 am
by Zachstralkita
In post 3738, Airick10 wrote: In post 3734, Zachstralkita wrote:
I've seen scum not claim at L-1 twice
Of course in that game we lynched the town bp after he did not claim and selfvoted so....
Sure, but were they replacements at L1 or L2? I haven't seen that before.
No... but I fail to see how...:....
Nevermind you guys just carry on doing what you were doing I'll return to make fun of you if I'm proven right
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:59 am
by Airick10
You fail to see how scum replacing in at L1 or L2 wouldn't claim a town PR immediately? One scum is already off the board. The town didn't hammer Performer because they are awaiting this claim. You don't think scum would claim immediately to save their hide?
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:03 am
by Zachstralkita
Airick10 wrote:You fail to see how scum replacing in at L1 or L2 wouldn't claim a town PR immediately? One scum is already off the board. The town didn't hammer Performer because they are awaiting this claim. You don't think scum would claim immediately to save their hide?
Well the fact that she still hasn't claimed and we still haven't hammered her leads me to believe it was never the general intention of most of you to hammer Performer. Look at all the shit that's happened and now that slot is going to dodge rope.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:11 am
by Zachstralkita
AGar is blatantly town. Any scumreads on that slot ping me. Of course Titus scumread AGar before but.... that's Titus
So let's say Performer/kraska is a mislynch.
Rather than AGar who is the main proponent of the lynch (along with ME!!!) I feel like a better place to look for scum would be.... hmm... I don't know... the people who voted that slot with little to no reasoning? But that's not what transpired.
We were able to speedlynch scum yesterday. I feel like if the slot were town the scum would have encouraged a faster lynch but now.... the wagon is just stopped
kraska's scumreads include:
Agar (haha)
Mirhawk( The wagon that's NOT you. Good detective work!)
Titus or Wake (.........)
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:25 am
by Airick10
In post 3741, Zachstralkita wrote:Airick10 wrote:You fail to see how scum replacing in at L1 or L2 wouldn't claim a town PR immediately? One scum is already off the board. The town didn't hammer Performer because they are awaiting this claim. You don't think scum would claim immediately to save their hide?
Well the fact that she still hasn't claimed and we still haven't hammered her leads me to believe it was never the general intention of most of you to hammer Performer. Look at all the shit that's happened and now that slot is going to dodge rope.
I think the magical emergence of Mirhawk saved any momentum to lynch Performer/Kraska. Attention was drawn off.
Plus, why do you think we (well, at least me) wanted to hear from the replacement in the first place? Was/Is there a thing she could say that would convince you she is not scum? If you don't bother to even listen, how are you contributing to the town then? I think put in the position she was put into, her actions (not claiming) are very pro-town. You look at it as a missed opportunity. I look at it as viewing a pro-town move as it is, and not lynching that. Let's say she does claim. Are you going to view that as a shitty claim as you did Vedith?
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:27 am
by Airick10
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:37 am
by kraska77
In post 3742, Zachstralkita wrote:
We were able to speedlynch scum yesterday. I feel like if the slot were town the scum would have encouraged a faster lynch but now.... the wagon is just stopped
What an exciting wagon...truly is a wonder why it ever stopped (see below)
In post 3422, Boem_u_dusi wrote:I got a little carried away here, but this stuff irritates me. I'd prefer playing a game without enabling replacements, this way I have to figure out who is an asshole and who really has some stuff going on in his/her life.
In post 3461, Transcend wrote:
p much this.
i'm sorta ambivalent to saving perf at this point even though i think he's gonna flip green.
In post 3370, Dunnstral wrote:Mirhawk is cornered scum here. Look at his last post.
I don't see anything in implosion to indicate he's scum. That's not saying I see him as towny I just don't know why he's voted
Performer was towny in my mind too
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:39 am
by kraska77
The wagon on performer was a joke and you know it, also was mostly prompted by a weak case. Obviously I was not going to quietly take the rope when i can dissolve the wagon on me by pointing out that it's dumb
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:49 am
by Dunnstral
???
You think he wouldn't ???
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:52 am
by kraska77
Hey airick, thanks!
Regarding Mirhawk: why the heck is he after Dunn? His actions just feel so far removed from the actual happenings of the game
He thinks Titus is town for fake claiming to "save" Dunn, but he doesn't think Dunn is town? Doesn't quite add up
I mean, I can see how people can think Dunn is town and Titus is scum, but I can't see how the logic adds up the other way around?
That and a bunch of other stuff that I'll have to pick out of his ISO to case him for at some point (not now because I can't be bothered) in general I do not get town vibes from Mirhawk, none of his posts have pinged town for me. Most are null, some are slightly scummy especially with regards to timing of the posts.
Fwiw im not too hot about this vote right now, I'd rather have agar pressured first, but im waiting for agar to respond to me first
Also r.i.p zach you have been successfully wifomed even before a performer flip (I'll explain later im really dizzy right now)
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:57 am
by Dunnstral
In post 3248, Mirhawk wrote:So Ièm back I guess. I'm more skimming then anything else at the moment so I'll just list me general thoughts here as I read.
Titus seems shittier then yesterday. Some of the logical leaps near the beginning of the day rub me the wrong way. I was townreading her previously, but maybe less strongly now. I can't say as I find the case on her that wake was pushing about having bad interactions is particularly appealing though.
Dunn keeps saying that there was no scum kill because he got doc'd. The whole premise is bullshit and I expect that he knows there's no way to prove it so why does he keep saying it. Since there's no way he could know this I'm not really liking the implications of this as the only benefit from saying that is to imply that you're town by means of making it look like scum tried to kill you.
I kinda agree with the sentiment that there was likely no scum in most of the latter people on Ved's wagon. But I probably wouldn't apply that to Dunn and Shannon as the writing was on the wall by that point so I could see bussing happening there.
Dunns
3004 is right on the money.
I'm a hot topic, I should probably be around more.
I seem to have scads of townreads but almost no scumreads in comparison. I would vote Shannon or Dunn though.
I'm more or less caught up now, I appear to ow boem some question replies (technical term) but I'm tired and those look like extensive answers so you're going to have to wait till I have time.
Also, I'm going to
Vote: Dunn
because why the hell not.
