Newbie 1393 Game Over

[HopefullyCynical]

What do you mean by bussing? Like throwing him under the bus? Assuming FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team, what do they stand to gain from FuDuzn throwing Z under the bus? Let's assume that he does. Z7 flips scum. They gained nothing, except now FuDuzn has somewhat gained our trust. But I feel that winning the game completely, without giving us the chance to come back, is much smarter.

I'm not saying FuDuzn is not scum, I am just saying that this play would be extremely questionable if Fu and Z were the scum team. FuDuzn fingering Z7 would make much more sense if the scum team were FuDuzn/Smudger, as it would cause us to lose the game.

I'm sorry if I'm slow or I don't get it, but how exactly will Smudger withholding his PR information help us when we massclaim?

[Dessew]

Z7 probably won't get lynched right away, as I mentioned in #374. But if either Z7 or FuDuzn gets lynched and the lynchee flips scum, the other one can get town credibility.

About the PRs: the more scum knows about them, the better falseclaim they can give us.

[HopefullyCynical]

I agree, but why would the scum team gamble like that? If they sacrificed one half of the scum team, that would give us at least another day. They would be playing with their food instead of finishing it.

[Dessew]

Well, I have played irl a lot (although those games don't have VTs, the idea is basically the same as here), and I just love to bus (irl we don't say "bussing" but "being a dick"), sometimes I bus for the sake of bus (it's fun to play with me.) The point is that bussing can happen any time imho. Also, this bus would be really safe, it's unlikely that we all would have a solid scumread on him before Monday.

[FuDuzn]

I won't be near a computer until at least Sunday so I can't really give detailed reads. But, my read on Z7 is based mainly on him going after mvm on Day 1 and my read on Smudge is based off of his quick hammer and how he has reacted to the suspicions on him today.

[Dessew]

Undetailed reads would be fine, too. Z7 already explained that he wanted some content from mvm before voting him, I think it was actually clever play and absolutely not scummy.

[Nexus]

Z7-852 has been prodded.

[Dessew]

Ps. I got a project call yesterday and I will be

V/LA till next Monday

. I know this sucks but summertime is little like this to me.

Nexus, Z7 is V/LA, I don't know what qualifies in this situation, but even if you did prod him, could you please give him a little more time than usually? It would mess up the game if an SE got forcereplaced while we are planning a massclaim in LyLo.

[Nexus]

Missed that, sorry

[HopefullyCynical]

So are we just waiting on Z7 then?

[Smudger]

OK back now and an interesting conversation since I was away. first and foremost someone said, I think FuDuzn, that a popcorn vote would not work, well from what I know it would. someone goes first claims then names the next person to claim and so on, thus Z7, who I thin you intimated would go last, would not necessarily be last.

About the PRs: the more scum knows about them, the better falseclaim they can give us.

yes agreed but we are at a stage now where it is an option to consider a claim. Point is I know for a fact which setup we have to within a 99% surety margin. That is based on what I have found or not found in the way of breadcrumbs in this game to date.

Now for those who feel I am scum please elaborate why you feel that way,

I understand FuDuzn's rather weak explanation of his reasons but then he is on my quickly developing list of possible scum anyway so his opinion really at this moment in time is of no interest to me. this in particular is interesting

(also strong scum vibes from notscience which I guess influenced my town read)

that statement is scummy

Also, I just realized that when I asked Smudger's thoughts specifically on Z7 he didn't answer. See post 360.

I reserved the right to answer you in time, I did not refuse to answer you, my read on Z7 is dependent on the popcorn claim and if it happens, but as you are obviously pushing for it,tbh I am in two minds between him and you, one of you is scum the other is town.

so my reads

Dessew - Town
HC @ Z7 - one is scum the other is town.
Fuduzn - Scum.

[FuDuzn]

Jesus man, firstly I am all in favor of popcorning but I wanted Z7 to be back to ensure he is guaranteed to go last and to ensure the randomness of popcorning. Please don't subtely twist what I am saying into some scum motivated ploy. We don't popcorn until Z7 is back.

And how is 369 scummy? I explained why part of my town read on HC was the interactions with what I thought was scum notscience, it wasn't wholly dependant on that and the impressin I got from HC after that back and forth was town.

And please explain why you are witholding your reads(and ironically calling my reasonings weak)? You keep say you have some great info for town but won't share. Explain town motivation here.

[HopefullyCynical]

Smudger, the only thing I don't really get is why you are withholding information. If we have a 99% win chance, you should share it. I guess I don't understand what we stand to gain by you withholding it.

[Dessew]

He's withholding it, because I've asked him to, I guess. Our schedule should be: 1. Z7 posts. 2. Massclaim. 3. If massclaim isn't enough, Smudger (and everyone else) tells us their findings (with earlier posts as evidences, of course.) If somebody told something noteworthy about PRs before the massclaim, that would help scum (it's pretty simple imho).

We should discuss who's going to start the massclaim. I suggest FuDuzn or Z7.

[HopefullyCynical]

I agree with those choices Dessew, but I'd like to hear your thoughts as why. And just to clarify, is a massclaim the same as a popcorn claim?

[Smudger]

And how is 369 scummy? I explained why part of my town read on HC was the interactions with what I thought was scum notscience, it wasn't wholly dependant on that and the impressin I got from HC after that back and forth was town.

within the context that it appears it stood out as a scummy statement to make, that is how it struck me.

[Smudger]

Smudger, the only thing I don't really get is why you are withholding information. If we have a 99% win chance, you should share it. I guess I don't understand what we stand to gain by you withholding it.

I am not saying we have a 99% chance of winning I am saying I am 99% sure what set up we are playing, and so this

He's withholding it, because I've asked him to, I guess. Our schedule should be: 1. Z7 posts. 2. Massclaim. 3. If massclaim isn't enough, Smudger (and everyone else) tells us their findings (with earlier posts as evidences, of course.) If somebody told something noteworthy about PRs before the massclaim, that would help scum (it's pretty simple imho).

is exactly correct,

We should discuss who's going to start the massclaim. I suggest FuDuzn or Z7.

I agree with those choices Dessew, but I'd like to hear your thoughts as why. And just to clarify, is a massclaim the same as a popcorn claim?

As for a mass claim and popcorn claim, yes they are the same, but a popcorn claim actually controls the order the claims are made in, thus helping to narrow down the fake claims. As I am confident that the set up is the one I think it is, if we get a claim outside of that set up I can counter it, but it comes back to those among you who are town trusting me, but that is a far push to achieve at this time based on the fact that some are finding me scummy. So basically it all goes pear shaped if I claim 1st 2nd or 3rd, as this allows fake claims to be made but I can only hope you trust me, to allow that to happen.

[Smudger]

oh that post is wrong, the middle quote should look like this

He's withholding it, because I've asked him to, I guess. Our schedule should be: 1. Z7 posts. 2. Massclaim. 3. If massclaim isn't enough, Smudger (and everyone else) tells us their findings (with earlier posts as evidences, of course.) If somebody told something noteworthy about PRs before the massclaim, that would help scum (it's pretty simple imho).

We should discuss who's going to start the massclaim. I suggest FuDuzn or Z7.

is exactly correct

[HopefullyCynical]

Ok, as I am inexperienced, how exactly will this work? And how will this help us figure out who is scum? Are we looking for misclaims by players, and the real owners of the power roles will counter them? Sorry, I'm a little confused on the proceedings of this and don't want to muck this up.

[Smudger]

HC for example you agree to go first you simply post "I am XXXXXXXX" then (e.g) "Z7"

the next post must be from Z7 he posts "I am XXXXXXXX" then (e.g) "Smudger"

and so on. then we look at what we have... for example Z7 states "I am a Cop", we ask for his actions and breadcrumbs, and so on.. If there is a counter claim then that is interesting also as it comes back to us all having to make a decision based on the discussion. The point is there is a series of posts where everyone claims and there should be no discussion on those until everyone has posted.

that is the way I understand it anyway, if anyone wants to correct me please do.

[Dessew]

Yes, I think you explained it correctly, Smudger.

HC, I didn't know initially what eg. popcorn and breadcrumbs are initially, either. But there's a wiki (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page) where I looked them up. Regarding Z7 and FuDuzn: they're simply the scummiest players imo.

[Z7-852]

Back after the break. Will read the thread during evening and post my thoughts. Give little time this might take some.

[FuDuzn]

We should wait for Z7's reads then we need to decide who will start.

[Nexus]

No-one is voting

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch. Deadline is at 1pm BST on the 28th July 2013[/color]

[Dessew]

Undetailed reads would be fine, too.

I just spotted this, I'm a moron...
Anyway,

We should wait for Z7's reads then we need to decide who will start.

Why only then? Actually, right now I think FuDuzn would be better to start than Z7, any opinions?