Mafiascum.net

VOTE: notscience

rail tracer, mario, brianskies, fuzdn, and rebel seem town.

am still wary on HP - very much so. a little worried about SOS.

dessew seems much better than earlier game, kinda think he's town now.

What are your thoughts about Daniel Bryan?

In post 376, Sound of Silence wrote:What are your thoughts about Daniel Bryan?

i'm not really sure yet

i agreed with his one post here
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5299070
about NS

looking at the ISO now, i don't like the brian skies vote



what are your thoughts on them?

SOS, i'm feeling pretty confident that NS is scum. do you think this is misplaced? or what are your thoughts on him? it seemed like you have him as town? can't remember exactly now

I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

In post 379, Sound of Silence wrote:I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

oh. ya

i didn't actually read his wall posts
did you?

do you agree that brian skies is town?

In post 378, artemiskitty wrote:SOS, i'm feeling pretty confident that NS is scum. do you think this is misplaced? or what are your thoughts on him? it seemed like you have him as town? can't remember exactly now

I do have NS leaning town. He's doing some style changes and I've wanted to see where that goes.

But, you picked up on some word choices that actually do ping a little. I'm going to review his posts again tonight or tomorrow.

In post 380, artemiskitty wrote:

In post 379, Sound of Silence wrote:I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

oh. ya

i didn't actually read his wall posts
did you?

do you agree that brian skies is town?

Yeah leaning town. I was a little surprised that Nacho had him in the tail end of his town pile.

when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

In post 383, artemiskitty wrote:when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

In post 384, Sound of Silence wrote:

In post 383, artemiskitty wrote:when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

mm.. i dunno. it's kind of like, an easy form of pretending to scum hunt, when you just ask ppl what they think of so and so.

you ask a lot of questions both as town and scum which is why i get wary of you


one more question - what are your thoughts on HP?

In post 385, artemiskitty wrote:

In post 384, Sound of Silence wrote:

In post 383, artemiskitty wrote:when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

mm.. i dunno. it's kind of like, an easy form of pretending to scum hunt, when you just ask ppl what they think of so and so.

you ask a lot of questions both as town and scum which is why i get wary of you

I haven't found my stride here enough to play a strong scum game. It's a lot easier to be town.

one more question - what are your thoughts on HP?

SCUMMY QUESTION!

Cautiously nullish-town. He seems to be scumreading at least one of my strong town reads, which is a small flag.

haha

did you notice how in his posts, he puts a little suspicion on just about everyone. k.. not everyone, but a fair amount of people. (HP)

In post 388, artemiskitty wrote:did you notice how in his posts, he puts a little suspicion on just about everyone. k.. not everyone, but a fair amount of people. (HP)

I have.

I also noticed that he has made a lot of hay over stuff that looks null to me - like the early hydra discusion. And "Leftovers" instead of "Null/Scum".

I've been putting off meta-ing him, but before I dismiss some of this as play style I really should.

In post 328, Daniel Bryan wrote:280 Im having problems with the read list because it mostly gives null or leaning reads and no concrete town reads. But I think you're town, i just want to know why.

291 See my problem is the fact that he agreed to something at first without expressing doubt. Then later when other people come in and say something that is along the lines of "All that wasnt necessary" he comes in and agrees. If he really felt that way, he would have said so earlier.

301 Why are you not doing anything?

303 So why not just directly call us scum?

320 Again why mostly "leaning" reads and no hardline "SCUM" read. it feels like you dont want to call anyone scum.

VOTE: Brian Skies

So I have HP, Mario, Rebel and SoS as town
Null on Saki, HC and artemis
Leaning Scum on RT and FuDuzn
Scum in Brian, Dessew

Okay SoS, Im here. You wanted to talk to me?

1) This is how I usually make my reads.
2) Why does it matter so much how we label our reads? Sorting is still being done and we would logically be trying to lynch the people we either felt was most scum or the people that we felt was the least likely to be town. If you can't find a great scum lynch, then you try to make the next best lynch.
3) Scumhunting isn't the only way to be effective in this game. Creating a town block is effective too as long as scum don't find a way in. Create a town block big enough and the scum will have nowhere to hide.

It's been bugging me that even though you seem to be caught up, you seem to be hung up on rather innocuous details. There have surely been larger discussions and you haven't provided much of your own insight in regards to them. Also, the constant circling about what I said or didn't say is becoming irritating. I don't know what you are expecting by continuously pushing it.

In post 336, Dessew wrote:Brian, I was a little hesitant, but I want to answer this: why on earth would you skip a post (#320, tha part regarding HP). Honestly, it looks like a discredit-attempt.

I was trying to catch-up. Some of HP's posts aren't the most visually appealing to me and I was having trouble focusing on the information because of it (my mind was wandering too much). Also, I don't think it's fair to either HP or to me to make a read based on outdated information, or lack thereof for that matter (hence, the unsorting).

I went back and I have a slight townread on HP. I've been liking his reactions to the whole hydra thing. His malleability and admitting that he could be wrong makes me think it wasn't scum motivated. There is still some stubbornness, but given that it is one of his most recent games, I can understand that he would refuse to just let it go. I find the dislike for some things ("grudge" seems like too strong of a word in this case) to be rather irrational and people are often just stubborn about it, even if they know they are wrong. It's akin to disliking sports teams even though you can't explain why (kind of like how I refuse to like the Broncos or Cowboys even though I like Peyton Manning and DeMarco Murray).



DB has been falling way too fast on my reads list.

In post 383, artemiskitty wrote:when you do,

note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.

you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

This is interesting. I thought this was just how notscience played. I should look for some recent notscience-town games and see.

Also, I gave ns a free pass on his initial reads list because it looked like a roughly done catch-up post. I'm most interested to see if any of the reads have changed since then and how they have changed.

SoS: I don't know why it's so hard now, I simply just don't get on the same wavelength with the game (this phrase exists in English, doesn't it?)
Kitty: ns is asking people about me, but he's also posting that he thinks I'm scum quite frequently. So I don't see how those questions listed in #374 are scummy.
Brian: I don't get what outdated information you're talking about. What wasn't scummotivated? The hydra-thing?

In post 392, Dessew wrote:SoS: I don't know why it's so hard now, I simply just don't get on the same wavelength with the game (this phrase exists in English, doesn't it?)

I seem to also have that problem with mini normal games for some reason. I don't really feel stuck into the game yet, though interacting with mantis-artemiskitty last night helped some.

The phrase does exist in English.

And I feel that your posts have gotten more on-point in recent days.

1) Why is NS "backpeddaling" in 204?

artemiskitty wrote:am still wary on HP - very much so.

2) why?

that there was quite a bit of subtle fosing on a number of players.
not a bad tactic as scum, because it leaves your vote open to place wherever, when you see others (town) moving in a direction.

so any interaction I have with other players is just laying grounds for a future excuse to vote them? You realize that, with that mindset, anyone who doesn't tunnel vision on one or two players is scum "leaving their options open"...? What about RT, who has also interacted with many players (although he usually does it over several posts, instead of one).

3) Why is brian town?

4) why is mario town?

I'm confused by your answer. You've given me an extremely specific time which coincides with 252 (SOS post with no relation). is this a joke? I wanted to know, in general terms, when stubbs had decided DB was scum and if that was consistent with the list you (head) posted. Considering you didn't state DB in a separate category beforehand.

That said, I'll just wait for the case itsel.

What concerns me about the don't have scumreads attitude is that saying someone is town is easy and risk free. It's diplomatically convinient even and, doesn't necessarily commit you as scum, since "new damning evidence" can always be found (or fabricated).

Even more so, you can't (at least not with many players), push a lynch saying, you're in the pool of "remaining players" so you probably are scum. Specially when there's lots of players in that pool and, even if there weren't, if you don't provide good cases for the town pool players to actually BE town.

As for your DB vote, do you realize you seem to have a pattern where you just follow the current trend? Is the DB vote real? Why do you think he is scum ("falling on my reads" is too vague) and how confident are you about it?



Many times, in this game, when I question something or someone; I get a bunch of people defending the target and criticizing because they don't agree, either with my questioning, with the question per se, or with having such an opinion (Which I might not have, but might still ask about it because interacting is how you get to read people).

Unless you're willing to display scumhunting skills, push a for a lynch, accomplish it and actually lynch scum... Get off my lawn. If you want to portray me as scum for it, you're welcome to do so, but provide arguments.

As far as I'm concerned this is flail-mild-townsville.

I am going to have to bow out of this game, my apologies but I just will continue to have no time.

Daniel Bryan wrote:In any case, its probably not alignment indicative that he hates hydras, but those questions seemed like they were there to give excuses to vote for hydras.

So the questions alignment indicative??

Daniel Bryan wrote:you liked his stance but you "never said you liked his questions" well why didnt you say that earlier?

He did, actually. You even commented on the post where he did. Looks like you're not really reading.

Daniel Bryan wrote:86 kinda feels like "i dont want to look like we're having hydra dissonance because theres a player here who doesnt like hydras and has stated he wont accept dissonance as an excuse".

It's only logical to discuss with your other head before laying down a vote. You don't want to vote someone your other head is townreading. The fact that you see it as scummy, raises question marks for me.

Daniel Bryan wrote:So if you dont vote Cynical and simply tell her to react or something, then she wont react. Its like "person A is scummy, but I'd rather not vote yet"

Ask a question first. If the reaction to it is unsatisfactory or there is no reaction, then you vote. I don't see why you're attacking Dessew for this.

Daniel Bryan wrote:108 im not sure, i dont feel like theres much scum hunting going on here, or in any of rebel's posts for that matter, except for the point about Dessew.

Daniel Bryan wrote:Im getting town vibes from Rebel

I'd like to know how you got from that first quote to the second.

Basically, your entire #152 contains comments on what people are doing wrong, without following it up with any actions. There's only a few points in which you said you liked anything anyone has done. The one about Mario, who only had 1 post, stands out to me.

Daniel Bryan wrote:Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.
I think he may have a point about Dessew but Im having a gut scum read on him.

Again, he tries to paint players in a negative way. Encouraging the scumreading of Dessew, but also claiming a scumread on NotScience. This was after NotScience already claimed he was wrong on kitty. Why the need to bring it up?

Daniel Bryan wrote:"I can see the reason why he calls me scum"

Yeaahh, Im doubting my scum read on Dessew..

Why? When HC claimed the same thing, you thought it was scummy.(See Below)

Daniel Bryan wrote:120 "You are both correct in thinking Im scummy" theres a level of self awareness I not liking here. Agree with your FuDuzn point but you saying youre scummy feels off to me. Like "I know it was scummy, hence im not scum"

Daniel Bryan wrote:There's an off feeling about his posts. I've seen ns in a game to get a grasp at his meta and he is usually uhm, less serious(?) when he is town. Thats why I felt his posts were odd.

Now I believe he said he's changing his meta, so I dont think this would make much sense

This doesn't answer why you brought it up, after he claimed he was wrong.

Daniel Bryan wrote:Because i dont feel like he's scum hunting as much as he is trying to discredit HP.

But you had him leaning town in your catchup post??

Daniel Bryan wrote:Again why mostly "leaning" reads and no hardline "SCUM" read. it feels like you dont want to call anyone scum.

Why is not having big scumreads a problem at this point of the game?

Daniel Bryan wrote:So I have HP, Mario,

Rebel

and SoS as town

again us as town read? Yet you have not commented in a positive way about anything we have done, on the contrary.

To conclude. You seem to make a habit to comment on what people are doing wrong. Your reads don't seem to match with the comments you're making. And you aren't talking to your town reads, and you aren't pressuring your scum reads. I fail to see any town motivation in what you're doing.

Nacho, if you have anything to add, feel free to do so.

Stubbs.

In post 394, Humble Poirot wrote:in general terms, when stubbs had decided DB was scum and if that was consistent with the list you (head) posted. Considering you didn't state DB in a separate category beforehand.

Yeah, Stubbs decided DB was scum before I posted the list, and it was consistent with the list.

I'm liking those points.

While DB isn't my first pick for scum, he's definately 3/4th on my list now.