In post 228, Skullduggery wrote:Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.
Not right now, but maybe later. Basically, he could be town, but his posting feels like scum manipulating things rather than town scumhunting.
Do you get this feeling from anybody else?
Yep, pie for sure. Minus the bit about him having a town mindset. Squinting really hard, I could maybe take random pieces of his iso and rub them together and maybe sorta-semi-think it could vaguely resemble townposting, but aside from that...
At the time you listed SSK as Town, he had only made three posts: 48, 49, and 50. I don't see how you get a Town read from that, which means that you must be seeing something that I'm not. I would like to know what that something is.
Because SSK is my mason buddy.
I know SSK. I know his meta, I know his mindset. This is not a scum SSK. Not in a million years. He's so damn transparent that you don't NEED more than that to read him; he is town.
If Mastin does get lynched and flips Town, where would you be likely to look to find Scum?
Well, I never get lynched as town anyway, and not through lack of scum trying, so...it's not going to happen. When Mastin does
die
, though, you can look for scum in those he's been pushing as scum.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:19 pm
by macmollie
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:47 pm
by Kazekirimaru
In post 372, Skullduggery wrote:You saw how fast the Brian wagon developed. If you're Scum (giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you aren't) and you see that wagon get five or six votes, do you jump on it or do you stay the fuck away from it for fear of looking like opportunistic bandwagon-jumping Scum? You stay away from it. If you placed a vote on him early, you did so without knowing that the wagon would escalate so quickly because you (presumably) have no way of looking into the future. If there is Scum on the Brian wagon (and I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that there are), they're more likely to be at the beginning than the middle or the end. Do you follow me?
I jump on wagons late as town all the time. Sometimes for no reason other than to push it. Wagons are a tool.
In post 372, Skullduggery wrote:Not particularly, no. I just think that between the three of you, Flandre has the best chance of flipping Scum. What do you think of Flandre's contributions to the game thus far?
I can't recall a post they made. So, not much.
In post 372, Skullduggery wrote:I'm getting similar feelings about Mastin, which is why I haven't joined that wagon. If Mastin does get lynched and flips Town, where would you be likely to look to find Scum?
That'd depend on how the votes on his wagon look individually. The context completely shifts with a flip and all that jazz.
In post 369, mastin2 wrote:This is actually a surprisingly-good description.
surprisingly?
Yep, wasn't expecting someone to come up with wording that was that, well, effective.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:21 pm
by Cephrir
In post 319, Cabd wrote:Re Orc: Hated claim came off town as fuck.
Re Pie, he feels off and to explain would be a PITA, so.... later.
orc: I suppose it did but I have high standards for him.
pie: I don't get these scumreads. I would say "i'll rest assured I'll get an explanation eventually" but that doesn't seem to be the general MO this game.
In post 343, Angry Frat BROs wrote:
Cephrir - Ummmm, Hmmmm, Durrrr, Meehhhh? You scum? Your ISO kind of looks like it, scumrir. Splash of opinions, one of them (The SkullDuggery one in post 62) reads a bit unnatural to me. Has no real opinion on Skull other than "wallposts, gross!" (but apparently likes Kazes?) and decides to question my townread here over the Kaze scumread? Weird. WEIRD. Reads like hes trying to actively be in the game rather than having natural opinions about people.
I have already clarified my reaction to Skull vs Kaze, read better. As for the rest of this... nuh uh? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In post 345, Angry Frat BROs wrote:ZmuffinMan - Null leaning scummy. I dislike his posting about the Brian wagon. Very controlled posting, nothing that looks very town motivated. Keeps insisting that Pie is scum like hes hoping someone will bite the bait? Which Kagami evidently does here
In post 230, pieguyn wrote:explain Kaze scum. how sure are you of Skull town when there's no scumgames to compare it against to make sure she can't fake?
100 people surveyed, top 3 answers on the board. "Why does Zmuffin know mastin is town?"
AngryPidgeon: Uhhh, is it that Mastin isn't on his scumteam, Richard?
Richard: A bold answer, lets see what the people SAID!!
DING DING DING, #1 answer!!!
Maybe. Muffin's inability to produce reasons for that is pretty craptacular. I could see it as a WK, and I've been giving him too much credit for trolling (yes, I give townpoints for trolling if it's not awkward. DWI). This post reads to me like you think mastin is scummy but town? Would like to know why mastin is town from you or the other(s?) who've expressed this.
In post 160, Cephrir wrote:It was, and I'm sure there was a bad vote on it, but I don't really think it's this one. It's quite in character.
If you are going to say this, then offer up an opinion on what vote was bad? To me, that wagon was null-ville. I expect maybe a scumvote on it or two, but I don't have any way of knowing/caring what is what. You are bringing this up like its important and not offering anything on the matter, really.
This seems like an odd thing to say to me if you think the wagon is null too and probably has a scum on it somewhere, aka basically what I said?
I bring things up like they're important all the time, because I usually don't know if they're important yet. I don't believe in keeping things to myself, except for that one time I wanted to talk to myself somewhere about who I was going to vig.
But you literally just said that MS's vote was par for the course. Now someone gets townpoints for criticizing MS? Uhh.
I'm not looking at the context right now, but I'm sure it was the way he went about the criticism that sounded town to me. Dunno why you couldn't come up with this obvious explanation on your own.
In post 285, Cephrir wrote:pie has already responded beautifully to this (honestly 278 is probably the best post in this thread).
But basically, that post boiled down is insisting that there's a contradiction between me feeling awesome about my reads and having confidence in them, and me knowing that I'm likely wrong and said confidence will later waver. When, bluntly, there isn't; the two are entirely separate things.
Funny, I was just going to say this of Muffin, MafiaSSK, and maaaaaaaaaybe AFB/sangres.
You have yet to give any reason for thinking AFB and sangres are town despite having been asked multiple times. And frankly I don't think you can, the latter in particular have done precisely nothing unfakeable or actually even particularly town on a surface level.
In post 298, Kazekirimaru wrote:But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.
Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.
I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.
While this is goodposting with your words, your actions do not back it.
Said the guy who literally just said it was OK that he is both confident and unconfident simultaneously.
sangres wrote:there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is.
AFB's town. Cabd's still a townread. Other than that...this wagon's pretty much crap. Cephrir's a scumread, especially if Kaze's town. (I'm beginning to lean that way.) Pie's scum, and hilariously obviously so. Metal Sonic's probably also scum. Orc's probably but not certainly not scum, but is still playing awfully weak.
Your wagon is scum? What an original insight!
There's still no reason for your stupid kaze-me-aegor dichotomy and you seem to think ignoring me will make that fact go away.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:23 pm
by Cephrir
I honestly think mastin has just decided he's going to blatantly ignore all my posts and hope no one cares. Usually this is the sort of thing I would say scum would never be ballsy enough to actually do, but he keeps using the same fucking points while completely ignoring that I've pointed out they are illogical (specifically the people whose alignments he keeps insisting hinge on my alignment for no reason).
I made a separate post for this because I'm starting to wonder if anyone is reading my walls.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:33 pm
by Cephrir
Why is the site breaking every time I try to post
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:34 pm
by Cephrir
Wow, something about the post I've written literally makes the site stop working.
In post 236, Cephrir wrote:You're going to be a moonlogic person, aren't you. I mean yes Scarlet does kinda suck so far, but isolating the first three seems really arbitrary. Why is it the case that scum would be on the beginning of their buddy's wagon? Those votes were more RVS than the others if anything.
..."moonlogic"?
You saw how fast the Brian wagon developed. If you're Scum (giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you aren't) and you see that wagon get five or six votes, do you jump on it or do you stay the fuck away from it for fear of looking like opportunistic bandwagon-jumping Scum? You stay away from it. If you placed a vote on him early, you did so without knowing that the wagon would escalate so quickly because you (presumably) have no way of looking into the future. If there is Scum on the Brian wagon (and I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that there are), they're more likely to be at the beginning than the middle or the end. Do you follow me?
Do you object to my Flandre vote? Has he made enough Towny contributions to the game to deserve a pass?
moonlogic = type of person who leaps to assumptions and can give logic for this but said logic doesn't seem to make any sense to me and this doesn't seem to be related to their alignment. See: Titus.
If I'm scum, I stay the fuck away from it. If I'm town, I also stay the fuck away from it. Personally I don't really do lolwagons. Also, scum know that staying off it is the accepted scum play and could easily subvert this. Don't be a level one player, if you know what I mean, which you probably don't.
I don't especially object to your vote, I just thought the way you got from point A to making that vote was based on weird assumptions.
In post 236, Cephrir wrote:Second point: You seemed more confident he was scum than I felt was reasonable. Though as you put it to Aegor, I don't know that all nine of the others were necessarily okay, I just can't pick out which one(s) are actually the bad ones.
Fair enough. Speaking of Aegor, what do you think about him piggybacking off your suspicion of me in 159 and asking you why you aren't voting for me in 208? It looks like he's trying to add fuel to the fire and keep us at odds. Do you get the same impression?
Now that you mention this, it sorta makes sense. I haven't checked whether Aegor was actually voting you at that point and it'd be pretty weird if he wasn't. I'm trying to upgrade my anti-buddying vigilance but it's so hard. Hell, /this/ could be you buddying me right now, but it probably isn't.
In post 228, Skullduggery wrote:Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.
Not right now, but maybe later. Basically, he could be town, but his posting feels like scum manipulating things rather than town scumhunting.
This is what me scumhunting looks like. If I'm wrong that's because I am terrible at scumhunting. You've gotta understand, this is what it looks like you're doing FMPOV, in large part because you're ignoring my points with alarming frequency and continuing to make points that I feel like I've dismantled.
In post 375, mastin2 wrote:I take back my ActionDan townread, by the way, on grounds of him being a lurker.
No shit, Sherlock.
I could swear there was more to this post than that but I can't figure out what it was.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:50 pm
by ActionDan
.
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:02 pm
by ActionDan
Lyrics: David Zippel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's get down to business - to defeat the Huns
Did they send me daughters when I asked for brothers?
You're the saddest bunch I've ever met
But you can bet before we're through
Mister, I'll make a man out of you
Tranquil as a forest
But on fire within
Once you find your center
You are sure to win
You're a spineless, pale pathetic lot
And you haven't got a clue
Somehow I'll make a man out of you
I'm never gonna catch my breath
Say goodbye to those who knew me
Boy, was I a fool in school for cutting gym
This guy's got 'em scared to death
Hope he doesn't see right through me
Now I really wish that I knew how to swim
Be a man
We must be swift as the coursing river
Be a man
With all the force of a great typhoon
Be a man
With all the strength of a raging fire
Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
Time is racing toward us till the Huns arrive
Heed my every order and you might survive
You're unsuited for the rage of war
So pack up, go home you're through
How could I make a man out of you?
In post 285, Cephrir wrote:pie has already responded beautifully to this (honestly 278 is probably the best post in this thread).
But basically, that post boiled down is insisting that there's a contradiction between me feeling awesome about my reads and having confidence in them, and me knowing that I'm likely wrong and said confidence will later waver. When, bluntly, there isn't; the two are entirely separate things.
In post 286, Metal Sonic wrote:are you giving us that silly dichotomy and immediately quickreading bro & nacho? then you gonna let them live till lylo if it happens? yo have you forgotten xeno 1 with me & bro & nacho (even though that was partially my fault yea) and because bro and nacho thought each other so town i had to be kicked instead ? and you still dare to pull this sort of early crap gut reads are you serious? no you arent
Uh...Nacho and BRO were both town in Xeno, and you were scum encouraging their fight? Nacho's town. BRO's town. If they live 'til lylo, it's because the scum had higher kill priorities or were utterly incompetent; they're both town, and not getting lynched.
In post 290, MafiaSSK wrote:I am so not understanding all of the mastin hate. Could someone explain?
Funny, I was just going to say this of Muffin, MafiaSSK, and maaaaaaaaaybe AFB/sangres.
In post 298, Kazekirimaru wrote:But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.
Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.
I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.
While this is goodposting with your words, your actions do not back it.
sangres wrote:there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is.
AFB's town. Cabd's still a townread. Other than that...this wagon's pretty much crap. Cephrir's a scumread, especially if Kaze's town. (I'm beginning to lean that way.) Pie's scum, and hilariously obviously so. Metal Sonic's probably also scum. Orc's probably but not certainly not scum, but is still playing awfully weak.
Yeeeeeeah, no. I might bus when I feel it's appropriate, but immediately hard-bussing pie, fuck no. Choose one or the other. Not both.
(Also, side-note, I find it hilarious how people are quoting various different ideas of what mastin-meta is when they're all simultaneously wrong and right, because they're drawing experiences from entirely different games. )
In post 343, Angry Frat BROs wrote:Metal Sonic - Town for post 137 alone. Obvious town even. If you can't see it, then I can't help you.
Well, then, I'm beyond help. There was something in there I could see as town, masked by stuff that looked like scum.
am I allowed to talk to you I can't tell these days
Would that have something to do with this being your 5th post in the game?
mebbe
can you plz answer truthfully as to whether or not you are scum otherwise I am waiting for nacho
"It's ffery's fault I'm not posting" is how I'm reading this. And it's how I thought your earlier post sounded, too, but I wanted to clear it up if it's a misunderstanding.
I almost voted you when I saw your first reply to me but
I
want to talk to Nacho, too.
If you know anything about my play, and you DO know my play, then you know that I feel like my posts and stances should reveal I'm town. Or not.
Will my saying "I'm town" actually set your mind at ease?
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:30 pm
by macmollie
I think there is a distinct fundamental difference between us and I think this convo is helping me pin it down!
"It's ffery's fault I'm not posting" <----implies blame and that is not what I am doing I am pretty sure I haven't even hinted at that! but you go there. you so go there.
I hate having to walk eggshells around you but the truth of the matter is that I
do
. but there is no "fault" for the quantity of my posts.
and no your posts and stances have not sunk in yet so no read.
