Mafiascum.net

I think Peregrine is overdue for a prod.

I'll do this either later tn or tomorrow after work.

Sorry I suck so much >.>

Not on over the weekend. At least two of you on my wagon know that. Catching up.

Man, I'm kinda happy with my wagon too. Two votes are purely self-preservation, one is bandwagoning what is, best I can tell, a neutral read, and BBT is still mistaking "contribution" for actual scumminess. I don't know, maybe GL is even self-preservation at this point. At least I don't have a PR to go claiming, I guess.

Gonna go here:

VOTE: SirCakez who switched from WKing me to voting me (ostensibly) because I didn't move my vote off of Firebringer? OK.

Hey everyone. I've read the most recent vote count and, oddly, massive's posts, and nothing else. I don't even think he sounds scummy, but a large wagon sounds sexy, so;



L-1

Why is there a mega wagon and so many vanity wagons at the same time? That seems silly.


[L-5] GuiltyLion - Jeanne11, Night Hunters
[L-6] kirroha - Firebringer
[L-5] SirCakez - Aristophanes, massive
[L-6] tojam2 - shaddowez

@Shaddowez
@Firebringer

What's up with your wagons? Why are you supporting them and not the mega massive (pun intended) wagon? All the cool kids are wagoning hard, why aren't you?

@Aristophanes - how do you feel about your vanity wagon now that the top suspect in the game is voting it?

@Jeanne11
@Night Hunters

In a very sad way, you guys, functionally, are leading the second biggest wagon in the game. Talk to me about your thoughts on Guilty Lion and also on massive.

I mildly have a town read on Firebringer.
Is zefend a lurksack? If not I have a slight town lean there also, I guess I'll look in a second.

Zefend isn't a lurker, but, eh, he is kinda putting his vote into loose play via the catchup unvote. I'll call him null for now.

So much for my hope that Pere's iso would have any insights.

Reading Firebringer makes me want to do this;



Dead serious vote here.
Anyone who knows me and how I like to pressure wagons should recognize how serious this is since I actually unvoted an L-1 *prior* to seeing a reaction.
Sheep now, please and thank you.

How can you expect us to follow you when you haven't really done anything to justify yourself?

Why are people still voting GL though? I knew he was town when he started pressuring me with a wagon and some pretty compelling evidence to back it up (lots, although Newbie 1667 proves contribution is non-alignment indicative).

↑ tojam2 wrote:How can you expect us to follow you when you haven't really done anything to justify yourself?

Because it's a good wagon, I'm a forceful personality, and I have presented a valid case to anyone who can understand it. And if you can't, eh, maybe as the wagon gets bigger you'll bandwagon on general principle. Do you have a town read on him? If not - it's already a decent wagon, and will only get better if I do get some bodies, and looking at the playerlist I suspect at least a few will either understand me, or grok the meta reality of how serious I am and at least sheep on that.

On the flip side - what's your boggle with massive? I read his posts and don't see it really. His wagon also got a weird surge over a very short time - that doesn't make you wonder at all? I mean, if I wasn't voting Firebird for my reasons I would have flipped out over how skeevy SirCake's vote was. Can you explain your massive case and respond to my thoughts on Cake's vote in particular? Why are you happy where you're at?

↑ tojam2 wrote:Why are people still voting GL though? I knew he was town when he started pressuring me with a wagon and some pretty compelling evidence to back it up (lots, although Newbie 1667 proves contribution is non-alignment indicative).

I do applaud you for attacking the strongest apparent counter wagon to your wagon, but, just to clarify, you're stating that he is town because he attacked you via meta that is easily disproven?

Why does that make you feel good about him as opposed to, y'know, thinking he is either playing poorly (in which case why should it convince anyone he's town) or is playing in a fake way (in which case he is scum and it makes sense that people would scumread him). Your stated evidence seems to suggest the opposite of your stated conclusion - what am I missing here?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:You questioned how he arrived at the reads - that leads me to believe you disagree with them because if you thought it was possible then you wouldn't have questioned it.

You are mistaken about the last part. I will question anyone about anything whether I think it's possible or not and whether I agree with their reasoning or not. I am interested in the thought process behind reads regardless of my stance on them.

↑ GuiltyLion wrote:

↑ ɀefiend wrote:Let's discuss this, shall we?

1. I had not noticed tojam's early vote on SirCakez til this post and I went back and re-read. After seeing it and realizing that his next post is hopping from SC to you, I find this wishy-washy and certainly potential posturing against town!SirCakez. It gives me a town-lean on you and SirCakez because tojam's latest post(s?) have not changed my mind that he's scummy. Would you agree with this assessment?

2. What do you think of shaddowez' post 214? Lots of good questions and content. How does this post and other shaddowez actions fit into your posturing investigaton?

3. Since I never actually voted for SirCakez, did my exchange with him give you the impression that I was pushing him? If you have time to read all of it, what is your over-all take-away from both our stances during the exchange and how does my behavior fit into your posturing investigation?

4. This looks like possible shadow-casting. Would you agree? massive has been getting stronger on my scumdar and if SirCakez is town I definitely see the alleged posturing here.

3. Your initial exchange with him did give me the impression that you were setting yourself up to move there, particularly "I see things that are worrisome but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt" is exactly the kind of thing scum would say if they want to look like they're scumreading someone but don't want to jump on yet while everyone else is doing their dirty work.

I also didn't understand how your question about the logical train of thought (A therefore B) would uncover anything alignment indicative, and I wanted to see where you took that, but then you dropping the conversation left the exchange overall rather null for me. Can you explain how this lead you to townread SirCakez?

Thank you for answering all my questions so diligently.

You are correct; I was indeed setting myself up to move to the SirCakez wagon. Rather than come out swinging with an argument based on presumptions, I wanted to have more evidence to lead a push distinct from the other people going after him for, IMO, shaky reasoning. My goal from the exchange was to find out whether there were discrepancies in SirCakez' statements and to see if he would backpedal on any of them. He did not, so I backed off and currently have no pressing suspicion of him.

Ooh Cakey wagon coming back.

VOTE: SirCakez

I feel frustrated I cannot get more votes on Cakey Thor. You thought his vote was bad, then why try to start a new wagon?

Thor, I am disappointed you left the massive wagon.

↑ Thor665 wrote:

↑ tojam2 wrote:How can you expect us to follow you when you haven't really done anything to justify yourself?

Because it's a good wagon, I'm a forceful personality, and I have presented a valid case to anyone who can understand it. And if you can't, eh, maybe as the wagon gets bigger you'll bandwagon on general principle. Do you have a town read on him? If not - it's already a decent wagon, and will only get better if I do get some bodies, and looking at the playerlist I suspect at least a few will either understand me, or grok the meta reality of how serious I am and at least sheep on that.

You went from calling Firebringer a mild town read to adamantly voting for him. I cannot try to understand reasoning that is non-existent. Please, present your case, preferably without any more ethos appeals.

↑ Night Hunters wrote:Ooh Cakey wagon coming back.

It really isn't.

You're helping scum push a counter-wagon. Stop it.

I have full intention to vote for massive but I will not be placing him at L-1 until we hear from Aristophanes, shaddowez, and Jeanne, and until Thor fully acclimatizes into the game.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Night Hunters wrote:Ooh Cakey wagon coming back.

It really isn't.

You're helping scum push a counter-wagon. Stop it.

Nah, you're the one helping scum. GL is a broken record merely complaining about my accurate read and not vetting other wagons. SirCakez had a shitty scum trajectory.

They both want massive, so this head doesn't want massive.

~Mom

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ Night Hunters wrote:Ooh Cakey wagon coming back.

It really isn't.

You're helping scum push a counter-wagon. Stop it.

Who is the scum in this scenario? Aristophanes?

↑ Night Hunters wrote:I feel frustrated I cannot get more votes on Cakey Thor. You thought his vote was bad, then why try to start a new wagon?

I do think Cake's vote was bad and showed scum mindset.
I'm voting for Fire over that while expressing only broad meta tells that I'm not explaining.
Do I really need to spell this out for you, or are you going to sheep me now?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Thor, I am disappointed you left the massive wagon.

I am disappointed that you are not addressing my reasons for doing so or offering a valid explanation of why the massive wagon is good to lure me back in a proactive manner, and are instead doing this.

Could you sheep me while you try to decide on how to explain your massive case? I promise good things.

↑ ɀefiend wrote:You went from calling Firebringer a mild town read to adamantly voting for him. I cannot try to understand reasoning that is non-existent. Please, present your case, preferably without any more ethos appeals.

I did not make any ethos appeals.
I don't see the issue with me reversing on an immediately presented gut read at a point I was openly stating that I hadn't read the game to then calling him a scum read after I claimed to have read his posts - in fact that seems like the opposite of something that is not understandable.

What is confusing about it to you?

Thor what do you think of Fire claiming PR? Did it affect your read at all?

Thor gives me bad vibes. :I

-Dad

↑ SirCakez wrote:Thor what do you think of Fire claiming PR? Did it affect your read at all?

Yes.
Currently my read on him is scum.