*Mini 522* Video Game Character Upick - Mod Abandoned


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:41 pm

Post by Ythill »

Lawrencelot wrote:
Ythill wrote:You have a good point here, though I don't know that it's in the best interest of a vig to kill Wolf. Doesn't a living Jester count as town against a mafia victory? Forgive my noobishness here, never been in a game with a jester.
This is the kind of discussion which I needed to unvote. However, a living jester does not count as town, it's a seperate group on his own.
What I mean is, to win, don't mafia need to have numbers equal to or greater than non-mafia? Or is it just numbers equal to town-aligned players? I believe it's the former.
Lawrencelot wrote:For now, Akonas seems the best choice if we don't go after wolfcrier, but I'm reluctant to vote as the bandwagon seems a bit... too sudden.
I agree that pete and Crub jumped on pretty quietly but, as I've stated a case, I appreciate the extra pressure.
Lawrencelot wrote:If someone could post direct arguments against [Akonas], I could vote after hearing his response.
I already have (#366), at his request (#363). That was five days ago. He has yet to address them.

Mod: could we get a prod on Akonas?
Record:
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Other 2W/2L
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:02 pm

Post by Akonas »

Ythill wrote:Farside engaged in subtle role fishing starting in #122 and continuing woven into her SK chatter. She claimed vanilla, attacked lurkers and placed OMGUS votes. She played off of Crub (who I think was innocent in it) to craft a VI appearance and then subtly slipped in the punch line of the gambit, “Also I'm not a big fan of the Sikario he could be an easy target to get rid of because he is a bit confusing" (#250). She distanced with Law near deadline, when it was safe to do so (#259, 261, 272).
I can't vouch for the actions of my predecessor. She has a strange playstyle, and I don't like her actions either. What does VI mean?
Ythill wrote:Akonas replaced, caught the scumminess of his predecessor, and immediately tried to cover for it using meta.
See above.
In #0, Akonas wrote:Sikario bothers me. His posting is weeird...
...I don't think Lawrencelot is that scummy. He's just odd.
This says that I am scum (which I know to be untrue) and Law is not (which I have discovered evidence against) because they are both strange? This, I believe, is Akonas doing more damage control on farside’s play.[/quote]My accusing your predecessor is damage control? I thought Sikario was being unhelpful to town. Lawrencelot wasn't giving me a scummy vibe at the time.
YThill wrote:In #4, Ak QFTs Law’s defense of the underdog townie. Wolf was acting so damned scummy that Akonas and I both suggest he’s a jester later, yet Akonas and Law are two townies that post a
content
defense for him near deadline? Not likely. In #5 Ak votes him pointlessly at deadline anyway, and turns on him first thing D2 (#6), only to immediately make excuses for him, again backed up by evidence (#10), as soon as the wagon starts to look soft.
You seem to take everything to be some sort of allegiance issue. I agreed that he seemed more like newbie town than scum; I liked the point. Yes, I've been switching about a bit, because I find it hard to know where my suspicions lie. Yesterday, I wanted a lynch, because statistically it's better than No Lynch and I though there was some good evidence out there. I wanted him lynched based on a spur-of-the-moment thing, and I wasn't thinking ahead enough, so I didn't think of the jester thing. Now I'm really not sure whether he's a jester or it's just a crazy scum gambit. In all the excitement of the new guy attacking me, that argument seems to have been pushed to the background, when I think it should be more in the foreground. I have to say I'm a bit surprised how fast the wagon grew.
pete d wrote:I don't think wolfcrier is a jester, mainly because i don't think an experienced player / mod would include one in the game. I could be wrong, but I myself am not going to include jester-thinking in my logic.
Then what do you think of wolfcrier's claim of scum? I think this deserves a bit more consideration; why should Lynch All Liars not apply? (not to say that it necessarily should, but, umm...)

pete d seems the most opportunistic to me.


Also, Ythill, what did you mean be the "typical scum suspicions" comment?
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:29 pm

Post by pete d »

Akonas wrote:Then what do you think of wolfcrier's claim of scum? I think this deserves a bit more consideration; why should Lynch All Liars not apply? (not to say that it necessarily should, but, umm...)
I guess you mean the "Anti-Christ" one? It makes no sense to me, a win condition to get rid of power roles (including mafia) a) seems anti-town and b) seems wierd anyhow. Also, he didn't really specifically say what his role actually was. In fact, the claim seems either bad or fake, seeing as he didn't say what video game he was from (which I think was a key part of the roles).
unvote, vote: wolfcrier
.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:28 pm

Post by Ythill »

Akonas wrote:I can't vouch for the actions of my predecessor. She has a strange playstyle, and I don't like her actions either.
You can entreat discussion knowing her alignment, which is better than nothing in defense. You can also dismiss her actions, as you have no personal culpability, but don't expect anyone to ignore these tells just because you can't explain them.
Akonas wrote:What does VI mean?
Village Idiot. A playstyle based on the premise of an excusable lack of intellect or strategy.
Akonas wrote:My accusing your predecessor is damage control? I thought Sikario was being unhelpful to town.
But that's not what you said. You described his play in terms almost identical to the way you described Law, yet one was declared safe and the other suspicious. Now you say the difference was "vibes?" Please attempt to explain what the difference was. What caused them to give you a different vibe? In what way was Sikario being unhelpful to town?

I call this damage control because of Farside's wild suspicions and hyper-activity that seemed to endanger Law a bit. This post of yours puts a band-aid on her play. My role's involvement in this isn't important, I'd feel the same if you replaced Sikario with anyone I have a town read on.
Akonas wrote:You seem to take everything to be some sort of allegiance issue.
Isn't it?

My point wasn't that you simply changed your mind, which I don't find scummy. My point was that you (twice) participated in
evidence-based defense
of someone dropping that many scumtells. It only deepens the case that you voted him in between those defenses, and that the timing of these actions best served scum if Wolf is not scum. You are swaying with town opinion and doing it in a dynamic way.

In summary, I feel you've made your stand in declaring Farside a fool and in missing the most poigniant meat of my other accusations. This is hardly a defense and I'm not convinced you're town but I see no need to push you at this point.
Akonas wrote:Now I'm really not sure whether he's a jester or it's just a crazy scum gambit. In all the excitement of the new guy attacking me, that argument seems to have been pushed to the background, when I think it should be more in the foreground.
Changing directions on Wolf again already? Convenient.

I don't see what's to gain from arguing about Wolf but... by all means. Did you have something else to add?
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:51 am

Post by Akonas »

The difference between Sikaro and Lawrence is that Lawrence actually said something... it may just be the way Sikario plays (you seem mostly like a good townsperson).

The difference between farside and Sikario is that although I don't like farside's playstyle, she was saying something. Sikario seemed to have almost all worthless posts.

Whether or not it is valid to lynch wolfcrier is a bit of a tough decision... I want to hear more from him--an explanation, if you will.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:23 am

Post by Ythill »

Akonas wrote:Whether or not it is valid to lynch wolfcrier is a bit of a tough decision... I want to hear more from him--an explanation, if you will.
I don’t think it’s a tough decision at all. There is evidence that he is a Jester. There is evidence that he was simply making a frustrated exit with that fake-claim.

It seems that patience is our friend in this situation. If wolf was making a frustrated exit we can just wait for his replacement. If not, we should go for other scum for now and save the wolf question for later. Right now we have no concrete information and it is pretty silly to risk the game hanging wolf until we have that information especially because, if he is scum, his play was clumsy enough that his alignment should be clear from his interactions with the other scum.
Akonas wrote:Sikario seemed to have almost all worthless posts.
Sikario had a problematic playstyle, but claiming that even a slim majority of his posts were worthless is not accurate. His sig:noise was 13:5. The trick, I think, was in deciphering the information he provided. I’ve given my own take, PBPA style, below...

0: Hello.

1: Random vote, fishing for reactions (see #2).

2: Tests a questionable reaction to his random vote (pete); finds farside scummy with reason; gut read that Law is scummy.

3: Other reasons to suspect farside (the pink and red bits); sets up color coding.
For people who don’t know the bible, Satan challenged God to refrain from interfering in the decisions of the people while Satan himself was tempting them; I believe this is the allegation.


4: Votes farside; color coding suggests that the vote is for the biblical reason above.

5: Color coding suggests that Tar find his answers in posts #3 and #4.

6: Color coding explains that Sikario supports mass-claiming in the endgame only.

7: Check in post.

8: Explains check in post.

9: Accused of voting farside without reason, Sikario posts “eh…?” because he gave reasons for the vote.

10: Denies agreeing heavily with farside; points out color coding to reiterate “red” reason; reiterates “pink” reason that wasn’t attributed to the vote via color coding; repeats the “eh?!?” with more emphasis.

11: Will try to avoid nested quotes.

12: Challenges farside for voting a lurker, though color suggests that he agrees with the pressure (see #13).

13: Determines that farside’s vote is indeed a pressure vote; adds his own.
This could be honest pressure. It could also be Sikario testing farside, seeing what she will do with the added pressure on Draux.


14: Challenges Nocmen for voting without reason.

15. Points out that Nocmen is still voting him.

16. Denies having a post restriction; asks for clarification in defense of himself; plus posts that devil smiley in response to farside.
The smiley could indicate pleasure/irony that farside is attacking Nocmen, who is attacking Sikario, who suspects farside (color coding supports this hypothesis). It could also be a reference to the Satan/God accusation earlier but, if so, the color coding is wrong.


17. Asks for clarification in defense of farside, challenging Crub.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:08 am

Post by Akonas »

I will laugh if wolfcrier turns out to have a post restriction requiring him to fakeclaim every day.

I understand that sikario was intelligent, but someone whose posts you have to decipher is detracting from discussion, in my eyes (I know you decipher everyone's a bit, but I think you know what I mean).
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:03 am

Post by Nocmen »

Well he hasn't said anything since his claim...it seems as if he just wants to get rid of this game.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:20 am

Post by Ythill »

Akonas wrote:I understand that sikario was intelligent, but someone whose posts you have to decipher is detracting from discussion...
Which is a different animal than being the opposite of "saying something" or being "worthless". I don't disagree with you that Sikario's playstyle was problematic (as I said earlier) but I do find it intriguing that you are morphing an argument against a player who is no longer with us.
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Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:44 am

Post by Lawrencelot »

Pete d: Why did you unvote wolfcrier and then vote him again?

Akonas and Ythill: do you think wolfcrier is jester or not? Actually, I'd like it if everyone answers this question. If you can't say yes or no, give a percentage. My answer is a no, but I don't mind lynching Akonas either.

Ythill is looking more protown to me, though I'm not ready to see him as more town than scum.
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:54 am

Post by Ythill »

Law wrote:Akonas and Ythill: do you think wolfcrier is jester or not?
I can't answer definitively but I would say there's a good enough chance that we shouldn't risk lynching him until we have more information. I think the chance that Wolf is a jester is lower than the chance that he was a frustrated player making an exit, which is IMO, the most likley scenario. In this case, all we have to do is wait for his replacement.

Mod: Please prod wolfcrier and let us know if he picks up his prod.
Record:
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Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:58 am

Post by Twomz »

Sorry Guys, I've been very busy lately :(. RL can be a bitch sometimes eh?

I'll get prods and a vote count out either sometime this weekend or early next week. Sorry for the absence.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:45 pm

Post by pete d »

Lawrencelot wrote:Pete d: Why did you unvote wolfcrier and then vote him again?
I didn't really read the claim properly, from a skim read it sounded like he was claiming vig or something. Akonas seemed like a good enough vote, then I went back and read wolf's claim and decided to switch back.
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:19 am

Post by Twomz »

Vote Count


wolfcrier - (2): KradDrol, pete d
Akonas - (2): Ythill, Crub


With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch


Prods are being sent out to...
wolfcrier (replacing Draux)
Crub
KradDrol (replacing Zakarum)
IH

A reminder that the deadline is set for March 10th, 12 day from today
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:52 pm

Post by KradDrol »

Unvote


Sorry, RL got in the way again. I figured the claim by wolf was a bit strange especially given the context of the game, but I voted because it had appeared that Twomz had vetted that the claim was real.

That said, not all that sold on Akonas right now. However, given the deadline, I'd be inclined to vote him if we're facing a potential no lynch scenario. I don't have a very good read on Ythill right now, though he seems to be acting very town-like...
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:03 pm

Post by Crub »

Townie Vibe + Sitting on Fence Vibe Interesting.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:17 pm

Post by Lawrencelot »

I would like to know from everyone who is not voting Wolfcrier: do you think there's a good chance that he's the jester, and is that the reason why you're not voting him?
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:59 pm

Post by Crub »

No I'm not voting for him because I don't think he's your partner.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:15 am

Post by Nocmen »

I don't know if he is the Jester, or if hes just messing with us, or if hes really gone and conceded. I'm keeping my vote to pressure him, but its sort of in vain now that he hasn't posted since.
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:19 pm

Post by Ythill »

Crub wrote:No I'm not voting for him because I don't think he's your partner.
Are you voting Akonas for reasons other than that you think he's Law's partner? If not, why not vote Law?
Record:
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Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm

Post by Crub »

Ythill wrote:
Crub wrote:No I'm not voting for him because I don't think he's your partner.
Are you voting Akonas for reasons other than that you think he's Law's partner? If not, why not vote Law?
Starting a new bandwagon during deadline = bad news. I'm happy to vote Law, Krad or Akonas.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:26 pm

Post by Akonas »

FoS: Crub
.

Stand up for what you believe in. Or at the very least, vote Law and say that you'll change your vote if it's getting close to lynch and you won't succeed.

I'm thinking Lawrencelot. I will, however, have to do a reread as soon as I get time (this weekend).

Also, WHAT IS IH DOING? He hasn't posted anything of content, yet he's listed as alive, and (as far as I know) hasn't been prodded. Post restriction?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:36 am

Post by Ythill »

Crub wrote:Starting a new bandwagon during deadline = bad news.
You voted before the deadline was imposed. Again, why Akonas and not Law? I had stated that I supported either.

I'd agree with a switch to Law. I could see myself hanging Krad to avoid no-lynch but a lot of the evidence against him assumes either Law or Akonas as scum and so, obviously, I'd trust it more if we had alignment confirmation on one or both of them.

Straight up, if we are narrowing our choices to wolf or Akonas, my vote will not move. I am not saying that wolf couldn't be scum but I do insist that the current information is not enough for a definitive read. Besides, I've had very bad fortune lynching people who are not around to defend themselves.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:44 pm

Post by Crub »

Personally my order is Krad, Law, Akonas ... Krad's actions at deadline tell a very bad story IMO.

I am not supporting a wolf lynch just because I think he is probably town.

I am voting Akonas, to put it simply, because Ythill is voting Akonas and he is in my top 3. At deadline I will be voting whoever has the most votes out of my 3 suspects or whoever is closer to the top of my list if there is a tie.

I hope this clarifies my position.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:37 pm

Post by Ythill »

@ Crub: It does. I suspected your #392 was tongue-in-cheek but I wanted to check it out anyway. I've recently gotten in the habit of questioning my wagon mates and I think it's a good habit. Could you expound on your "Krad's actions at deadline" case? Not because I don't believe you but because I am interested in your opinions.

@ Law: What is your infatuation with Wolf? Do you suspect he's a jester? Why aren't you voting him? In fact, why aren't you voting at all?
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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