Slip! If you know there is a doctor, there are 2 possible setups. If you were town, you wouldn't know which one. But scum do!
Incorrect.
I
know there's only one setup we can be in if there's a doctor. The other possible setup isn't an option.
I
know that.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:36 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Only I
know that. If I were scum my scumbuddy would know that. I'm not, I'm town, and I'm the only person who knows what setup we're in.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:19 am
by Charloux
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker Vs. 5 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor
2 Mafia Goons Vs. 5 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Tracker
Here are the possible setups right now. Scum know what PR's the town has, but they don't know who the cop/tracker is. At least shouldn't know unless someone claims to be town and that he knows the setup. Why would you do this...
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:27 am
by Accountant
Ahem. Power roles don't reveal their identity for a reason. If they let too much slip, scum may figure out what sort of power roles there are, and who holds those roles. I'd recommend that we keep talk about what sort of power roles there might be to a minimum in order to avoid letting things slip to scum, unless you can show me clearly how town benefits from discussing the setup.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:11 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
@ Char
You said that only scum would know the exact setup. That isn't true.
@ Accountant
I agree, power roles shouldn't be discussed... but Norska already started it by saying what roles he wasn't and that plus your explanation that Char must indeed be a doctor makes me now know exactly what setup we're in. And char is wrong to tell me that only scum would know. There are two setups with a doctor but I know which one it is because I know which one it can't be.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:16 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
I also now know that Norska is telling the truth when he says he's not a tracker. But that could just be a convenient way for scum to tell the truth rather than risk getting caught by lying. See, he's not a tracker because he's scum for example. Norska coming out saying all the roles he isn't... I can only see scum motivation for that. Yes I continued the trend but the point is why would Norska give me this info to discuss in the first place? Saying all the roles he isn't, it's very non-committal. He can literally be telling the truth about all those roles he isn't and it can be true by virtue of him being scum. And I know he's telling the truth about not being a tracker because I know Char is a doctor because of Accountant's explanation.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:17 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
I really recommend everyone ISO Norska because I'm very certain he's scum at this point.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:18 am
by Morning Tweet
Manuel's Morning Tweet case:
Spoiler:
182, 186, 189, 191, 233
5 posts in a row she is talking about how she develops a scumread on WCS but never voted him.
You're misreping those posts. I never "talk about developing a scumread", those are posts of me questioning WCS. But that doesn't sound as good, does it?
I had a scumlean on WCS until this:
In post 325, WeCanSimplyBeOurselves wrote:I have no idea whether you believe Char's claim or not. I do know that if someone else claims something then one of them would be lying. And
if
Char is telling the truth I do know which setup we're in.
Take a guess why. I wouldn't have brought this up, but WCS's recent posting makes this look minor.
In post 242, Morning Tweet wrote:UNVOTE:
Who here has objected to a WCS lynch? I don't recall anyone resisting this wagon.
@Charloux @NorskaBlue
Do you think there's a better lynch candidate than WCS?
(Also
@thatsit,
if you missed it, one more vote on WCS will lock a lynch on him. Are you comfortable with this? Who is more likely scum out of Char/WCS?)
Pedit: okay, that makes a tad bit more sense. Do you think if someone had notified Accountant that he was making pre-flip associations, that would have made Accountant look bad? I don't really find realizing his mistake AI.
She unvotes Charloux without mentioning why and asks other players not on the WCS wagon if they want to lynch him.
This looks like she wants WCS lynched but doesnt want to hammer herself. So she wants to see if someone else is willing to hammer.
The same time she asks Thatsit if he still wants to lynch WCS. But then pretty much tells him he should decide between WCS and Charloux (who she just unvoted).
I read Charloux's previous completed games, he has a huge tendency to act scummy. Scummy on day one specifically. The heat on his wagon died, so there wasn't much reason to keep my vote on him after that.
You're taking quite a leap of logic with "telling thatsit he should decide between WCS and Charloux". I reminded him he's voting for an L-1 WCS (He voted for WCS in his first post of the game), so seeing as his two scumreads were WCS and Charloux, I asked which he thought was scummier.
In post 354, Morning Tweet wrote:
If we were to lynch someone other than WCS, who would you be comfortable with?
In post 363, Morning Tweet wrote:All right, wanted to make sure you're not tunneling WCS (and therefore ignoring Manuel, whom shares a spot with you in my unsure pile).
Here's that read list I mentioned earlier:
Town/ Charloux
Likely Town/ thatsit, Transcend
Lean Town/ Norska, WCS
Null/ Accountant, Manuel, Misa
First she is fishing for Misas scumread and one post later she adds me to her scumreads(?). I cant even tell since this readslist has no scum listed in it.
And then she pretty much tells Misa that she is better focusing on me (Manuel) or she (Morning) will scumread her (Misa).
I believe you and Misa have a higher probability of flipping scum than those above you in the list. WCS is nearly cleared as town, yet Misa was still hounding him "Feels like WCSBO just rolefished..". This could have been out of fear the wagon moves to you or Misa herself (as it looked like it was going) in a misa/manuel scumteam scenario.
In post 363, Morning Tweet wrote:
Now for the Accountant read. Yes, I can hear it already. "How can you have no stance on the game's most frequent poster?!"
Accountant has brought up a TON of great points. He clearly was in the right during his line of questioning with Charloux early on. Look how that one turned out, though. I don't want to describe the nullread as "Accountant will be helpful to town whether he's town or scum, so every useful post he makes is NAI", I just want to be as sure about my Accountant read as I am with my reads on the less experienced players.
Here she basically admitts that she has 0 scumreads since Accountant is in the same pile as Misa and me.
The reason also seems fake. Accountant sure made some good points and pressured Charloux quite a bit but he moved off the wagon some time ago while Transcend rejoined it later and pressured him.
So the reason for having Accounttant so low in her reads should also apply to Transcend. Why is he likely town then?
I don't really see what you're getting at here.
I'm not townreading Transcend for shallow reasons like "good scumhunting, posts often", which would be the extent of an Accountant townread. I townread him for having a similar thought process, something I can't really connect with Accountant on.
VOTE: Manuel
This is a hasty thrown-together case made to shift the final wagon onto me. I doubt he was thinking any of that on his first readthrough.
Pedit: WCSBO do you think it's important to notify everyone that you know which setup we must have? Believe me, it's not helping town.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:23 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Well if I have information for town how would it help to not disclose it? Yes it can help scum but it can help town too and Norska already gave me the information... why would he do that? Why would he say all the roles he isn't when that can still be true by virtue of him being scum?
How is Manuel scum?
I thought either Manuel or Tweet was scum but I find Tweet being scum much more believable after that post. I think Tweet is scum. I'm far more certain though, that Norska is scum.
I'll switch to voting for Tweet but only if no one is willing to get on board with my voting for Norska.
At this point, since I am so often ignored when I don't ask questions, I may as well ask a question. What does everyone think of my explanation for Norska being scum?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:25 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Char should protect me tonight. Be very wary of anyone who tries to lynch me now that I've said this.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:38 am
by Morning Tweet
In post 384, WeCanSimplyBeOurselves wrote:Well if I have information for town how would it help to not disclose it? Yes it can help scum but it can help town too and Norska already gave me the information... why would he do that? Why would he say all the roles he isn't when that can still be true by virtue of him being scum?
How is Manuel scum?
I thought either Manuel or Tweet was scum but I find Tweet being scum much more believable after that post. I think Tweet is scum. I'm far more certain though, that Norska is scum.
I'll switch to voting for Tweet but only if no one is willing to get on board with my voting for Norska.
At this point, since I am so often ignored when I don't ask questions, I may as well ask a question. What does everyone think of my explanation for Norska being scum?
Did you click the spoiler? I outlined why his case on me is bad, yet you're asking why I think he's scum?
If my rebuttal to Manuel doesn't change your mind, there is no reason to wait for the others. No one is joining the Norska wagon for the reasons you gave, I can tell you that right now.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:58 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Well if that's the case.
VOTE: Tweet
I didn't ask why you think he's scum. I asked how he is scum. Your reasons for him being scum are inferior to his reasons for you being scum, IMO.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:58 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Well if that's the case.
VOTE: Tweet
I didn't ask why you think he's scum. I asked how he is scum. Your reasons for him being scum are inferior to his reasons for you being scum, IMO.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:59 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Apologies for double post. I thought the first time was just a preview.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:05 am
by Morning Tweet
Yeah, I admit all I have is his bad case against me + PoE.
I could read his ISO, but if something didn't jump at me the first time I read his posts, I'm sure I'll be biased reading them this time around.
You're misreping those posts. I never "talk about developing a scumread", those are posts of me questioning WCS. But that doesn't sound as good, does it?
What exactly is the difference between what you said and what i said?
In post 383, Morning Tweet wrote:
You're taking quite a leap of logic with "telling thatsit he should decide between WCS and Charloux". I reminded him he's voting for an L-1 WCS (He voted for WCS in his first post of the game), so seeing as his two scumreads were WCS and Charloux, I asked which he thought was scummier.[/b]
And why did you feel the need to remind him that he is scumreading Charloux and WCS you could have simply reminded him that WCS is at L-1 and stop there.
Also his first post was pretty far into the game and his vote wasnt a RVS vote.
I believe you and Misa have a higher probability of flipping scum than those above you in the list. WCS is nearly cleared as town, yet Misa was still hounding him "Feels like WCSBO just rolefished..". This could have been out of fear the wagon moves to you or Misa herself (as it looked like it was going) in a misa/manuel scumteam scenario.
What made you think it was going into a misa/manuel scumteam scenario?
I don't really see what you're getting at here.
I'm not townreading Transcend for shallow reasons like "good scumhunting, posts often", which would be the extent of an Accountant townread. I townread him for having a similar thought process, something I can't really connect with Accountant on.
[/spoiler]
So then what is the reason that Acoountant is so low in your list?
Also you didnt address the fact that you have 0 scumreads in your list.
In post 383, Morning Tweet wrote:
This is a hasty thrown-together case made to shift the final wagon onto me. I doubt he was thinking any of that on his first readthrough.
Yes i didnt thats why i do things like rereading and Isoing ppl i think are scummy because i miss things.
You're misreping those posts. I never "talk about developing a scumread", those are posts of me questioning WCS. But that doesn't sound as good, does it?
What exactly is the difference between what you said and what i said?
I never say I'm scumreading WCS, I never give reasons to scumread WCS. I'm asking him questions. You said I'm "developing a scumread" on him to support your argument that I wanted someone else to vote him for me. I was not ready to vote for him over Charloux.
In post 383, Morning Tweet wrote:
You're taking quite a leap of logic with "telling thatsit he should decide between WCS and Charloux". I reminded him he's voting for an L-1 WCS (He voted for WCS in his first post of the game), so seeing as his two scumreads were WCS and Charloux, I asked which he thought was scummier.[/b]
And why did you feel the need to remind him that he is scumreading Charloux and WCS you could have simply reminded him that WCS is at L-1 and stop there.
Also his first post was pretty far into the game and his vote wasnt a RVS vote.
I wanted to know where he stood on Charloux and WCS. Yes, it was not a RVS vote. That was not my point. He voted for WCS originally because of his frequent fluff-posting. He may have forgotten about that and now could have a different view but be totally unaware he has WCS at L-1. What was my scum intention behind this?
I believe you and Misa have a higher probability of flipping scum than those above you in the list. WCS is nearly cleared as town, yet Misa was still hounding him "Feels like WCSBO just rolefished..". This could have been out of fear the wagon moves to you or Misa herself (as it looked like it was going) in a misa/manuel scumteam scenario.
What made you think it was going into a misa/manuel scumteam scenario?
General consensus said this lynch was going to PoE, leaving you, Misa, and I on the bottom. In a Misa/Manuel scumteam, it'd be optimal to prevent this from going to PoE or to let it and get me lynched.
I don't really see what you're getting at here.
I'm not townreading Transcend for shallow reasons like "good scumhunting, posts often", which would be the extent of an Accountant townread. I townread him for having a similar thought process, something I can't really connect with Accountant on.
So then what is the reason that Acoountant is so low in your list?
Also you didnt address the fact that you have 0 scumreads in your list.
Because I don't townread or scumread Accountant?
I do not order people by how towny they are, then put the bottoms ones as scumreads. Even my nullreads had done nothing I considered "scummy", so I don't write them as scumread even if it makes the list feel incomplete. Again, going back to the PoE thing.
In post 383, Morning Tweet wrote:
This is a hasty thrown-together case made to shift the final wagon onto me. I doubt he was thinking any of that on his first readthrough.
Yes i didnt thats why i do things like rereading and Isoing ppl i think are scummy because i miss things.
That's correct if you're town, but if you're scum what I said is true. So.. draw I suppose.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:11 am
by Transcend
UNVOTE:
Stressed
I'll come to a conclusion later or just sheep someone
I never say I'm scumreading WCS, I never give reasons to scumread WCS. I'm asking him questions. You said I'm "developing a scumread" on him to support your argument that I wanted someone else to vote him for me. I was not ready to vote for him over Charloux.
In post 186, Morning Tweet wrote:You're not actively going after your scumreads because.. you think they'll ignore you? I'm not buying it.
So what are you doing here? You literally say you think he is lying.
I wanted to know where he stood on Charloux and WCS. Yes, it was not a RVS vote. That was not my point. He voted for WCS originally because of his frequent fluff-posting. He may have forgotten about that and now could have a different view but be totally unaware he has WCS at L-1. What was my scum intention behind this?
towncredit for reminding him that WCS is at L-1 when he flips town.
General consensus said this lynch was going to PoE, leaving you, Misa, and I on the bottom. In a Misa/Manuel scumteam, it'd be optimal to prevent this from going to PoE or to let it and get me lynched.
Why would you exclude Norsak, Accountant and Transcend?
I read Charloux's previous completed games, he has a huge tendency to act scummy. Scummy on day one specifically. The heat on his wagon died, so there wasn't much reason to keep my vote on him after that.
Why didnt you mention this when you unvoted Charloux?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:45 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
Yeah I think probably either Manuel or Tweet is scum and Manuel seems very town to me. All this tunnelling Tweet with questions seems like aggressive scumhunting to me.
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:46 am
by WeCanSimplyBeOurselves
I still think Norska is scummiest though. Tweet just asserted that no one will be convinced by my reasons for reading Norska as scum. Is that true?
Because I think coming out saying all the roles he isn't is a pretty scummy thing for Norska to do!
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:07 am
by NorskaBlue
UNVOTE:
Since noone has CCed Char, I'm inclined to believe him. Which throws out one of my strongest scumreads but hey, its a good reminder to keep an open mind.
Norksa is either telling the truth about the roles he isn't because he's a VT, or he's scum. He literally can't be anything besides a VT or scum.
To be honest... I don't like the randomly coming out saying all the roles he isn't. If he's a VT why would he do that? I think it's to give himself pseudo-crediblity. I think he's scum.
I think at this point I have to throw my theory about Accountant having "just realized" being not genuine in the trash, Accountant has overall seemed very townie and I'm starting to think there's no way I can justify his covering things up being more beneficial than simply letting things slide.
Also Accountant warned me about what him and Misa saw as rolefishing. I'd say he wouldn't do that if he's scum. But at the same time he's IC so it's his job to warn people of bad tactics and stuff, to teach them.
What kind of bothers me is we have Norska here mentioning all the roles who he isn't and then when I respond to that I'm told
I'm
fishing.
At this point I can see more scum motivations than VT motivation's for Norska claiming all the roles he isn't. This is why I shall vote for him.
VOTE: Norska
So I went from being town in #227 to being all but confirmed scum because I said what roles I don't have. I gave out the same information as Accountant in #305, or Transcend in #306, or Manuel in #310, or you when you replied to my post in #337. Then in #338 you said that I can't be a tracker if Char is a doc, so I confirmed that I'm not a tracker. Why is this a reason to investigate me and not Accountant, Transcend, or Manuel?
I never say I'm scumreading WCS, I never give reasons to scumread WCS. I'm asking him questions. You said I'm "developing a scumread" on him to support your argument that I wanted someone else to vote him for me. I was not ready to vote for him over Charloux.
In post 186, Morning Tweet wrote:You're not actively going after your scumreads because.. you think they'll ignore you? I'm not buying it.
So what are you doing here? You literally say you think he is lying.
Great, I impulse wrote that I never incited suspicion on him, yet it seems I have.
I wrote 1-2 posts suggesting I scumread/want to pressure WCS, however I do not vote him. Fucking hang me.
I wanted to know where he stood on Charloux and WCS. Yes, it was not a RVS vote. That was not my point. He voted for WCS originally because of his frequent fluff-posting. He may have forgotten about that and now could have a different view but be totally unaware he has WCS at L-1. What was my scum intention behind this?
towncredit for reminding him that WCS is at L-1 when he flips town.
That'd be a great reason to accuse me of trying to earn towncred if there wasn't a valid reason to say that as town.
General consensus said this lynch was going to PoE, leaving you, Misa, and I on the bottom. In a Misa/Manuel scumteam, it'd be optimal to prevent this from going to PoE or to let it and get me lynched.
Why would you exclude Norsak, Accountant and Transcend?
Because no one scumreads Accountant and Transcend, obviously..
Norsa has enough townreads to not be on the bottom, imo. You can dispute that, but honestly wcs is solidifying Nor's safety for today with his crazy scumread on him.
Okay, that's not true. There'd just have to be a different reason to suspect Norska. Also, wcs if you're reading this, mention your favourite animal in your next post.
That's correct if you're town, but if you're scum what I said is true. So.. draw I suppose.
How is what you said true if i am scum? Do you think i wouldnt miss anything as scum?
Uh, not sure what that is supposed to mean.
As scum you're not going to read one of my posts and be all like "Wow, she's trying to deceive people into voting for WCS without getting any blood on her hands". You'll be thinking about arguing that's what I did.
I was quite sure i commented on that earlier seems i accidently deleted it when i was editing the quotes.
I read Charloux's previous completed games, he has a huge tendency to act scummy. Scummy on day one specifically. The heat on his wagon died, so there wasn't much reason to keep my vote on him after that.
Why didnt you mention this when you unvoted Charloux?
Kinda pointless seeing as there was no reason to defend him at that point, but I guess I could have mentioned it.
@WCS
Norska did the same thing as everyone else. Claim to not be jailkeeper/bp (and obviously doc). You're the one who prompted him to say he's not Tracker! If Norska stopped posting because you made him think he made a mistake, I'm extremely disheartened.