Mafiascum.net

In post 372, Branson wrote:A lot of people gave Skitter a townread for the early general reactions, but I felt like her overall approach and what she's specifically saying is a lot more scum indicative than town indicative.

Ok, why?

In post 373, Branson wrote:*early general interactions

I'd also like to point out that I think her general response is something I'd expect someone with her general playstyle to do as both alignments.

I agree

After reading through stuff, here's a readlist:

Lady Angel: 3 posts, 2 of which are RVS. The other is a question that could be answered by reading the game. Scumlean for lurking.
Nimueh: Not much posting here either, just finding reasons not to vote me. Weird. Not much info, but again slight scumlean for lurking.
Enter: I had a townlean here, but it's a scumlean now after an iso. My own reads confuse me sometimes.
urap2: Started with a scumlean here, after the iso it's a townlean based on how he treated my initial (admittedly fairly scummy) play etc.
skitter30: Townlean, she's playng the same as she has in the other games I've played with town!skitter.
Chara: 2 posts with no content. Not pretending to have content either, so null here.
Reck: Don't know his meta, can't tell if this is how he normally plays but town maybe?
Flubbernugget: I don't like much about the slot other than the name, but I'm willing to buy that he's sick and that it's preventing him from playing much. Null.
tris: Intersting slot, lots of questions but not many answers, and very few post that make it to two lines long. Not sure what to make of it.
tictac: Few posts, mostly some form of "I like this." In short, I don't like this. Scumlean here, and a team with Enter might make sense given how they approached my wagon. I don't want to make any associations before a flip though I guess.
Branson: Nothing from the slot before the alt switch. I like 369, it's a point I wouldn't have thought of, but it rings true. Not many posts, but a townlean.
Brigitte: 95 is still bad. I really don't like this slot, might be bad reasoning but I really don't see much content coming out of it.

I'm actually fine keeping my vote on Brigitte for now.

I'm pretty much in the game now

In post 372, Branson wrote:A lot of people gave Skitter a townread for the early general reactions, but I felt like her overall approach and what she's specifically saying is a lot more scum indicative than town indicative.

In post 373, Branson wrote:*early general interactions

I'd also like to point out that I think her general response is something I'd expect someone with her general playstyle to do as both alignments.

Can you elaborate?

This skitter case is going to be a huge headache to put into words without relying on my usual tactics to get my points across, but I'll try.

1. I believe #70 post is the scummiest post in the entire game so far, minus other posts that came by later... which are also by the same slot (and I will get to those later).
1a. The question to flubber is an empty nothing question.
1b. Too much detail on the Enter quote. I found it bizarre that you felt the need to call that post manipulative and his interactions with Brigitte not SvS after you asked a lot of questions about that one single quote.
1c. Your response to #42 was another empty nothing question.
1d. I really don't like how you felt the need to predate a question to u r a person 2 with stating that you think he's town.

2. It was made pretty obvious pretty fast what Enter was trying to do (and Brigitte even explained it here), and yet you kept pushing the same case even beyond that. Your overall play up to where I have stopped reading is to push on Enter's 31->34 trajectory for as much as you can get away with, and I don't feel like the way you're approaching it is natural since I'm seeing you occasionally make somewhat nuanced stances and points (70, 89 132), yet the other parts of your ISO for this stage in the game is essentially arguing the same points over and over again without applying that same nuance to what everyone else is telling you. It's jarring.

3. These three posts are the other biggest source of my scumread outside of #70. Brigitte was clearly talking about the 31->34 shift when she said the consistency wasn't scummy, and I find it a bit hard to believe that it would naturally occur in a town mindset to respond to that with what is essentially "yeah the progression isn't scummy but both parts of it are scummy!" especially when you call it scummy anyways six posts later.

There's more but I'm being pulled away to do other stuff, so I can't go into it currently.

And by the way, anyone who specifically tries to argue that "consistency" and "progression" don't mean the same thing, they pretty clearly do in this context. I really do not care to humor semantics about my choice in wording.

In post 345, skitter30 wrote:which way did you misread him? (ie he was town and you thought he was scum or the other way around)
i don't really feel like he's being wooden tbh

does this make you scumread him? if yes what do you think that says about nmsa's alignment?

it's lines like the last line of 332 that gave me the sense u2 was just not thinking critically on that page.
i don't get the sense it's a scum bus, no, so if i'm right on this intuition it'd mean nmsa is town. but i need to read the rest of the game, which i'll do now.

and when i read him incorrectly he was town and i had him in my PoE.

Branson is going to be a nightmare to read due to the style she's going for on this alt. i can see the draw of doing it but it means my methods will not work.

In post 383, Chara wrote:Branson is going to be a nightmare to read due to the style she's going for on this alt. i can see the draw of doing it but it means my methods will not work.

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this, since I never had you pegged as somebody that could recognize the differences between my towngame and scumgame.

Ugh. Sorry for yesterday, I was really out of my element. Let's fix this, starting here:

1. I love wagons. I love wagons made for good reason, I love wagons made for bad reason, I love wagons made for seemingly no reason whatsoever. I like to see who's willing to get on and push, who's resistant, and why. So of course I'm going to push to see who's willing to get on and who's not, offering whatever reason I can to be on it. After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done. I'm going to save these:



and UNVOTE:

2. Agree that the lack of people reading NMSA differently from the crowd is pretty interesting. Also should be noted the players who are not particularly reading him at all, or pushing elsewhere [Branson, Chara, Lady Angel]

3. Like the reads list coming out of NMSA. Like that it's there. I'll post my own Soon^TM, depending on when I get free time. Would like to see reads out of u r a person 2.

4. I'm sorry I haven't really read what you're posting, Branson, there's a lot going on right now (but I think that's really good for town). What do you think of Reck next to Skitter? , though, just because a lot of people seem to be scumreading me right now, my play tends to be a lot less gambitty when I'm under the eye and maybe if people trust me a little more I can get back to pushing things for reads. Maybe this is selfish of me, but I hate having to try and look town while also trying to do things that make town look good.

5. Chara, I like your new avatar, but more coming out of this slot would be nice. Lady Angel and Nimueh should post a little more as well, on some of the other relevant topics.

6. There are three points I would like everyone to share on if they get the chance: ... eh. Actually we'll wait on that. More when I get back from work.

Just a little encouragement to keep the game moving from players other than the ones posting right now, VOTE: Chara

In post 385, Enter wrote:2. Agree that the lack of people reading NMSA differently from the crowd is pretty interesting. Also should be noted the players who are not particularly reading him at all, or pushing elsewhere [Branson, Chara, Lady Angel]

Also should be added to this list: Reck (who I'm starting to lean towards case 3.5 on). Maybe someone else that I missed

I think Reck's push is a lot more town than Skitter's is. At the very least, the thought process behind it (and from what little I know about how he plays from a long while back) looks a lot more genuine and naturally occurring from a town mindset.

I'm not interested in wagoning you because I'm thinking that you are town right now.

Recks play does not feel natural at all

Rereading i noticed i missed some questions directed at me. I will get back to that soon

In post 389, Flubbernugget wrote:Recks play does not feel natural at all

Rereading i noticed i missed some questions directed at me. I will get back to that soon

What about Reck's push looks unnatural? Especially while Skitter is "gut town"? Skitter was pushing mostly the same narrative.

In post 384, Branson wrote:

In post 383, Chara wrote:Branson is going to be a nightmare to read due to the style she's going for on this alt. i can see the draw of doing it but it means my methods will not work.

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this, since I never had you pegged as somebody that could recognize the differences between my towngame and scumgame.

you aren't, i don't know your meta.
but you mentioned that you're purposely only playing logically, and avoiding using your own intuition. for me specifically that's a hard thing to read because i can't see if you're town based on your belief in your own conclusions. and things of that nature. if this was just you playing as yourself i'd find it easier, but because you're tailoring your style to an alt there's a degree of separation between your true feelings and what you post.
that's the sense i got from your explanation and the bits of you i've read here.

In post 385, Enter wrote:5. Chara, I like your new avatar, but more coming out of this slot would be nice. Lady Angel and Nimueh should post a little more as well, on some of the other relevant topics.

thank you. it's actually my original avatar with this account.

voting me for pressure when you say it's "to get more content from me" isn't really pressure. at least hint that you think i'm scummy or something. :>
i'm posting as i have time. i'm extremely busy. it's IRL so pressing me for more will do little.

i also haven't read most of his posts but i'd call Enter likelier town than scum here.

In post 152, xRECKONERx wrote:either enter is town who purposefully acted scummy to try to get a wagon on themselves

i just came out of a game where Enter did this as town. like, this exact thing. it's actually really funny.

Reck's reaction to it isn't that bad. maybe a little over the top but i could understand the frustration.

In post 179, u r a person 2 wrote:It would be easier and more compelling for people to just go read like 10 posts but

In 1915 NMSA came in with an act. They played up the whole newbie thing (they have some outside experience), going so far as to claim VT in their first post saying "It's okay to say this, right?"

In 1917 they were town and they had a far less awkward, far breezier tone. There was zero posturing. Even under pressure and a decent way into the game they stood firm on not having any reads.

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

after reading this i decided to read nmsa because his ISO isn't very long.
i still don't like this argument because you really are just... metaing him off of one towngame and one scumgame and saying it looks closer to the scumgame. that's just not good meta.

I'll only have access to my phone for an unknown amount of time.

In post 394, Chara wrote:

In post 179, u r a person 2 wrote:It would be easier and more compelling for people to just go read like 10 posts but

In 1915 NMSA came in with an act. They played up the whole newbie thing (they have some outside experience), going so far as to claim VT in their first post saying "It's okay to say this, right?"

In 1917 they were town and they had a far less awkward, far breezier tone. There was zero posturing. Even under pressure and a decent way into the game they stood firm on not having any reads.

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

after reading this i decided to read nmsa because his ISO isn't very long.
i still don't like this argument because you really are just... metaing him off of one towngame and one scumgame and saying it looks closer to the scumgame. that's just not good meta.

This is not a good representation of my read. It's not that it's "closer to the scumgame" it's that it makes complete sense as an evolution of his scum game, and no sense as an evolution of his town game. And since I've played with him in both of his games on site, and correctly read him in both of his games on site, I think it's reasonable for me to make this argument.

You've mentioned that you are reading NMSA as town because you're reading me as scum for a lack of critical thinking. What is your read on NMSA based on NMSA alone?

In post 329, u r a person 2 wrote:

In post 312, Enter wrote:I highly doubt you will actually be lynched at this point. Very rarely have I seen a highly active game (which I very much intend for this to be) result in the Lynch of a player who got bandwagons coming out of RVS

I don't understand. You think he's scum, but you don't think he will be the lynch.

Do you want today's lynch to be NMSA?

In post 330, Enter wrote:Yes. I do.

In post 334, Enter wrote:I want NMSA to be lynched today, I don't think he will be lynched right now. Based on experience the wagon on him will dismantle before reforming again if he will be lynched, though. Very very rarely do I see a wagon coming out of RVS resulting in a Lynch.

In post 385, Enter wrote:Ugh. Sorry for yesterday, I was really out of my element. Let's fix this, starting here:

1. I love wagons. I love wagons made for good reason, I love wagons made for bad reason, I love wagons made for seemingly no reason whatsoever. I like to see who's willing to get on and push, who's resistant, and why. So of course I'm going to push to see who's willing to get on and who's not, offering whatever reason I can to be on it. After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done. I'm going to save these:

Wow, didn't see this transition coming. /s

If/when nmsa flips scum, you're a partner. This is simply transparent.

Enter jumped on when he thought nmsa was flying towards an early departure, and he's walking it back now that he thinks maybe it's not inevitable.

and pushing me, but voting for chara. =/ to encourage her to post? Why aren't you voting me to get the reads list you supposedly want?

This is not town play.

reck probably town if enter flips red based on early push, but i'm sure there have been crazier svs plays