Mafiascum.net

In post 370, the worst wrote:Mostly the former ya

You got through a lot in that game because a lot of the intensity of the gamestate attached to the masons & your scumbud - by the time it hit endgame you'd kinda gotten through without having to post under too much pressure. that meant there was nothing slippery or heated or personal from you, so the web you were weaving really didn't have many gaps in it.

You started with a slow burn on pg. 1 so I poked and prodded to squeeze more content out of you

Fair. I think making a push like that is something I'd do as a townie, because I think there is a risk of getting scumread pretty easily if you mess up and your push seems fake/malicious/has a clear agenda behind it.

I think where I myself struggle with these "under the radar, less active poster" types is I automatically start them off at a lower standing in terms of scum equity than those who have been actively posting. Starting to learn that it's not really an accurate measure of town/scum behavior. I think there's just that paranoia of losing to a team who has just done nothing the entire game lmao

In post 373, the worst wrote:

In post 371, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 368, the worst wrote:Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

Cool
VOTE: NaCl
I had a feeling your placement was pretty similar but I found NaCl's reasoning kinda slimy - if you were on a similar page I might have needed to really check my reads but I think NaCl is likely just scum

NaCl/Ark > zoomie as wildcard

I'm not sure if you agree here, but I just think it's way too "open" like I said earlier. It's just semi-shading a bunch of slots and seeing what lands with the crowd. I didn't like it.

In post 374, the worst wrote:I'd probs rather push Arkias but they're more lynchable than readable because of the deadline and v/la-ness

To be honest I've kinda forgotten about Arkias and need to recap on that slot before I make a push like that. Deadline is getting a lil close so I'll do that soon. Still got a few hours tonight to do a quick catch up

Yeah there's always an instinct to want to reward good play rather than lynch to hit alignments at risk of feeling silly postgame - I've seen some huge decisions made along those lines. I think only experience kinda helps prompt when that's starting to affect your reads (it happens to me sometimes even now)

Sometimes it helps kinda splitting the plist into two sections: people you feel you can read and people you don't

if for example you get a lot out of realtime interactions, look at the players you've interacted with in realtime. Say you scumread one of them and townread three. Now look back to the block of 4 quieter players and try to adjust them towards the MIDDLE rather than the bottom - see if you can find a buddy or just a single scum in there

Sometimes breaking the plist up like this and resetting expectations (in this example: expect to find three town reads in that group of four lurkers, and see if you can reach that - if not just leave them null) can really help reset perspective on a game

Absolutely. I think it was just a change coming from playing Mafia IRL, because when you're playing with people you know and they're being unusually quiet ("lurking" as we'd say on here) it's far more likely they're actually scum. Whereas here, there's almost always readable content and citing inactivity as the only reason for being scummy is something I'm personally trying to avoid now.

Interesting change of tactics and pace here for sure as compared to other versions of social deduction i've played

Thomth - spoken about this a fair bit

geraintm - gerain is a bit of a wildcard; don't think he's exhibited a lot of things which are necessarily towny/difficult for scum to fake, but I feel like his approach to the game has been fairly earnest. he doesn't look like he's playing a manipulative gameplan, just kinda doing his thing.

LoserdudeOG - I actually like LDoG a fair bit - if anyone wants a case on this I'll boot up the pc

Uncrowned - just probably town

Zoomie8432 faüstiv - :shrug:

Arkias - I think Ark posts reasonably well under pressure but in retrospect I think they're actually posting to end the pressuring engagements; when left to their own devices they are kinda scummy and I guess I've kinda pressed them to answer a few things which pinged me most recently

the worst - too cute to be scum
Creature - should not be anyone's toptown read but has dropped some minor creature towntells. the meta of "creature who posts is town" is about 12-18 months outdated and you actually need to analyse his content now. but hey in a vacuum I'm kinda leaning town

NaCl - I think his reads are kinda consensusy; it feels like he's kinda posting to be running with the pack but when he actually tries to explain original thoughts I don't really buy the thought process

Glad you're enjoying yourself. :> I think your style lends well to forum mafia. It's slower paced but you really get to crack into each others' souls

tw
thomth, uncrowned
creature, geraintm, loserdudeog
zoomie ~~ null
nacl
arkias


think nacl/arkias read s/s by memory at like a surface level

btw on creature: if this were 12 months ago and he'd posted this much and I agreed with a couple of his reads, I'd townbin him and never turn back. still think he's more likely town. but he's gotten better at scum.

In post 379, the worst wrote:geraintm - gerain is a bit of a wildcard; don't think he's exhibited a lot of things which are necessarily towny/difficult for scum to fake, but I feel like his approach to the game has been fairly earnest. he doesn't look like he's playing a manipulative gameplan, just kinda doing his thing.

I can't manipulate anyone, and i know i am never much use until people actualyl start dying. I nearly wrote then "I am never much cop until day 2..." and realised a possibly british saying would have sounded so weird in the context of a mafioa game

I'm always wary that people who've been playing mafia for a long ass time, and returning folks, don't tend to strongly alignment tell on day one. It kinda feels like you're following and you're comfortable with the way the gamestate is going but you're not quite ready to come out and play.

Which is to say... I expect much of you. No pressure.

That's definitely a Britishism btw.

In post 384, the worst wrote:I'm always wary that people who've been playing mafia for a long ass time, and returning folks, don't tend to strongly alignment tell on day one. It kinda feels like you're following and you're comfortable with the way the gamestate is going but you're not quite ready to come out and play.

Which is to say... I expect much of you. No pressure.

That's definitely a Britishism btw.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/not_much_cop

^^ it's genuine, honest

oh dw I know it
second? verse of Kooks by Bowie is great

Vote Count 1.14

Thomth (2) ~

LoserdudeOG, geraintm

LoserdudeOG (2) ~

Thomth, NaCl

NaCl (2) ~

Creature, the worst

Zoomie8432 (1) ~

Uncrowned

Not voting (2) ~

Arkias, Zoomie8432

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-12-15 18:22:46)

Mod Notes

geraintm is V/LA on weekends

Arkias is V/LA through Friday Dec 13th

Replacing thomth...

Right now, ark does have some things that does have him as a scumread, so when he's back from V/LA, we may want info out of him. I wasn't informed about the situation back then, but that does tilt it towards him.

In post 371, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 368, the worst wrote:Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

Okay, to be more specific about that, I skimmed through one of your recent scumgames and compared your early ISO in both games, and I didn't feel like you were the same in that game, your questions had more depth to them here. And to be honest, I hadn't really been following the thing between you and TW that closely because I'd thought you were both town and I was slightly reconsidering on that. But I've been really busy this week and haven't had time to put too much effort into this game, so I didn't look into it that much initially, but since it's been going on for so long, I think it could have been something.

In either case, I'm not interested in lynching either of you today.

In post 359, the worst wrote:

In post 356, NaCl wrote:The Worst is someone who I also liked initially, but I'm somewhat put off by his excessive helping of newbies. I think it's possible that it's a thing to subtly improve their opinion of him. It's not necessarily scummy, though, as this is a newbie game. TW, do you have a town game where you do this you could link to?

Yeah I'll link my town newbie games when I get home. It's a pretty common factor, and something I did much more heavily back when the IC role was a thing.

I rolled scum as an SE in a newbie pretty recently and found it kinda difficult to coach newbies as effectively as I can when I'm town but that's whatever, it's probably more of a mood thing than an alignment thing

Do you have a read on my actual content though? Sorry to be prickly but you're basically stating that you think me taking the SE role seriously is scum indicative and that's pretty heavily souring my ability to treat your reads as credible

I like what you've been doing about your questioning, that seems pretty useful. I think you were trying to bait a wagon on Uncrowned early on which is why I also voted him in that point where RVS was semi-over, and see what would happen. The main thing that bothered me was that it felt like you were buddying up to people, but if you do that as either alignment, then it doesn't really matter. I don't see why you'd think I was trying to shade you or something like that when it's an easily answerable question.

In post 376, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 373, the worst wrote:

In post 371, Uncrowned wrote:

In post 368, the worst wrote:Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

Cool
VOTE: NaCl
I had a feeling your placement was pretty similar but I found NaCl's reasoning kinda slimy - if you were on a similar page I might have needed to really check my reads but I think NaCl is likely just scum

NaCl/Ark > zoomie as wildcard

I'm not sure if you agree here, but I just think it's way too "open" like I said earlier. It's just semi-shading a bunch of slots and seeing what lands with the crowd. I didn't like it.

In post 374, the worst wrote:I'd probs rather push Arkias but they're more lynchable than readable because of the deadline and v/la-ness

To be honest I've kinda forgotten about Arkias and need to recap on that slot before I make a push like that. Deadline is getting a lil close so I'll do that soon. Still got a few hours tonight to do a quick catch up

In post 379, the worst wrote:Thomth - spoken about this a fair bit

geraintm - gerain is a bit of a wildcard; don't think he's exhibited a lot of things which are necessarily towny/difficult for scum to fake, but I feel like his approach to the game has been fairly earnest. he doesn't look like he's playing a manipulative gameplan, just kinda doing his thing.

LoserdudeOG - I actually like LDoG a fair bit - if anyone wants a case on this I'll boot up the pc

Uncrowned - just probably town

Zoomie8432 faüstiv - :shrug:

Arkias - I think Ark posts reasonably well under pressure but in retrospect I think they're actually posting to end the pressuring engagements; when left to their own devices they are kinda scummy and I guess I've kinda pressed them to answer a few things which pinged me most recently

the worst - too cute to be scum
Creature - should not be anyone's toptown read but has dropped some minor creature towntells. the meta of "creature who posts is town" is about 12-18 months outdated and you actually need to analyse his content now. but hey in a vacuum I'm kinda leaning town

NaCl - I think his reads are kinda consensusy; it feels like he's kinda posting to be running with the pack but when he actually tries to explain original thoughts I don't really buy the thought process

I would like to hear your opinion on Ldog, since he's one of my stronger scumreads. And as for me, I don't think I've been in the middle of the pack. I consider some slots to be safely town, yes. But I don't see how I'm holding a consensus opinion when it comes to Ldog, Thomth (or now Arkias). If anything, I think I was one of the first people to be townreading Thomth. I can't be going for a consensus opinion when I'm the first one to have it. And being bad at explaining my thought process doesn't mean I don't have one.

I am rather bad at communicating, so if there's a person you want to hear more about ask me.

Also, regarding Arkias removing his vote. I agree that the motivation you mentioned is reasonable, that scum just needs a mislynch. And that is correct. But at the time, there were 3 wagons, one of which was Thomth and he put all of them at 2 votes. It is possible he unvoted rather than move to a different wagon because faustiv or Ldog was his partner, and didn't want to tip the largest wagon to there. But if he is scum and the other wagons are on townies, then why would he want to get his vote off the wagon in the first place? I just don't see what the advantage was to scum. Yes, it's likely that the Thomth wagon wasn't going anywhere. I think the greatest scum motivation for something like that would be that another scumbuddy is on the wagon (which is why I was saying earlier that Arkias could be scum on the Thomth wagon, but not likely to be the only scum) and he wanted to disassociate himself from that.

And regarding your Thomth read, when did he go so high in your opinion? Last I remember was that you were feeling he was kind of towny in some ways and kind of scummy in others, and suddenly he's at the front of the pack?

I hadn't gotten fully through the entirety of the forum, so I had some issues with him when I read through. However, other problems with him earlier on, like how TW's L-1 leasd to Thomth having pressure on him I most certainly agree with you that at least one of the people on Thmoth is scum, but the amount is uncertain. They may have been on TW at first also.

Hmm, let's hear that.

Zoomie, why do you think that the people voting getting TW to L-1 are more likely to be scum?

Wow, Karnage is fast to respond. Nice work.

To be honest, a L-1 this early on could easily be coordinated by a scum duo, one being at the middle of the boat, as to prevent them from getting suspicion easily. As for thmoth's pressure, he had a lot of posts that cleared him up easily. Right now, scum are wanting to see if someone does have a slip up early on to take point of it.

I also just caught back up with the posts. For the most part, I really haven't done anything, but I had to clear issues on me at that point. Now that it's cleared, I can actually help the town out without misinterpretation.

You know what, never mind. I'll just ask directly. Who do you think is scum?

Right now, Ark, but you got some issues of your own.

Okay, since I have to. Why do you think Arkias is scum?