Mafiascum.net

In post 365, Nachomamma8 wrote:Can you rehash the bits you don't like about Chara and I? My impression was that the thrust of your read on both was mostly due to things that were misinterpreted.

This is really strange to me. I'll rehash my points on you at the end, but you responded to most of my initial read on Chara just a few posts earlier, and none of the parts you addressed involved the misinterpretation.

In post 361, Nachomamma8 wrote:I don't really vibe with this post.

1) Saying the "stop doing this" as opposed to "this is scummy" is a stylistic choice and doesn't really have anything to do with a difference in motivation, IMO. It has a slightly more aggressive edge I guess, but the point overall here seems fairly nitpicky - your in depth bit on not liking giving scumreads advice because it allows them to adjust also seems to be a much too serious interpretation.

First, you got it reversed; it was a "stop doing this" about something that was town/otherwise made them not want to lynch Sujimichi. Second, it is definitely nitpicky: this fits into a style of behavior I've always found weirdly ingratiating or two-faced.

In post 361, Nachomamma8 wrote:2) Your framing of Chara's change of heart on mechanics is a bit disingenuous; Chara's mind changed because they didn't realize the impact of playing a limited flip game, which I'd argue is significantly different from "realizing townreads are wrong".

I acknowledged within the post that limited flips complicates things:

Replica wrote:After being gungho for townhunting, Chara gets reined in by the revelation that...the townreads might be wrong. No flips does indeed complicate things, but this is so bizarre to not even think about. Chara had to have done at least some thinking given that they leaped to classifying it as a townhunting setup. On the surface this is seems slightly scummy, more just bizarre, but I feel like there's more in my gut that I can't quite get to.

I don't know what motivation scum Chara would have for the switch, but my point was that it was a strange thing to think about sparing people, and classifying the setup as a townhunting one, without properly considering that they don't flip. The theme of my early posts really centered around the one word that kept cropping up in my mind: "bizarre"

As for my feelings on you, that day I really didn't know how to feel on you at the end. The meta part was mostly negated, coming down to a plausible disagreement. What remained was my skepticism of your push to avoid a Day 1 spare and insistence on lynching early, but I had a lot of thoughts swimming from catching up that day and my early engagements. I went to bed wanting to look at you again the next day, but didn't come up with anything else. I didn't know what to think about you that night before I went to bed, and I still don't really now.

In post 356, Nachomamma8 wrote:Just hopping off the plane now - I will make a concerted effort to do a solid catch-up tonight because I will have time to do so. Chemist's townreads are extraordinarily strange if he's scum - I don't think he has good reasons for calling Pine or Asriel town, but I don't see him sticking his neck out for either of them regardless of his alignment if he's scum here.

This is really bad; townreading both of the lurkers without reasons points to a classic newer scum mistake: Knowing someone is town and working in reverse.

You seem to dislike or not understand most of my posts so far, as opposed to just having disagreements in play style or interpretations. You still have me as firm town. The only plausible explanation I can really think of myself here is that you like my tone and push for engagement and activity. You are much, much better than to readily drink that kind of Kool-Aid. That Chemist read is so bad.

In post 366, Nachomamma8 wrote:I do think it's useful to keep the "if Hectic is scum here, this is is first significant scum game" and I think that it's useful to see that Hectic's initial scum game WAS an extremely conservative one and is a harsh difference from the play we are here. It's not the main thrust of my read - I'd still be pressing for the spare on him even if that one scum game didn't exist.

The first part I buy, the second part is off. As far as I can tell the successful use of the gimmick is the main thrust of your read on him. That isn't dependent on the other game existing, you're right, but the overall effect is that you seem to not think Hectic capable of pulling a stylistic choice off successfully as scum. There's a shared thread of "expectations" The substance, which seems to relate to his push on Sherlock and reactions towards Chemist/Billy, seems very secondary.

To be honest, I don't have a good read on Hectic. I'm very bad at getting townreads, which is what this game really asks us to do. I saw some good continuity on a read iirc but I'm very dependent on expectations, and I don't see why scum Hectic play like this.

Things like this though are exactly why I love sparing Day 1: We get the most leeway in our spares today.

townreads are my strong suite more than anything.
i've been thinking about this while i've been working.

what the main thrust of your Hectic read, Nacho? i agree he's towny, in that he is engaging with the game and giving reads that make sense, but i don't know if that's worthy of an absolute locktown read.

i know we only have a day left, which is unfortunate, but in terms of spare targets i am most sure of, it would be Replica more than anything.

HEAL: Replica
there's the style to the posting (something that i believe is inherent to Replica, which is not AI in and of itself) first of all, which rings honest. i'm not explaining it well but i think it's something that's really difficult to fake, the way that Replica has essentially introduced themself and their methodology and then proceeded to apply it in a way that does not seem performative.
i kind of don't want to know who they are but i can't help wondering anyway.

Hectic isn't a bad spare either, but i am curious what makes him so locktown to you.

and alimdia, i asked you what reads you thought were missing. i'm pretty sure i've given my thoughts whenever it's relevant.

so not quite a day, but an indeterminate amount of time following replacements.

In post 377, Replica wrote:I don't know what motivation scum Chara would have for the switch, but my point was that it was a strange thing to think about sparing people, and classifying the setup as a townhunting one, without properly considering that they don't flip. The theme of my early posts really centered around the one word that kept cropping up in my mind: "bizarre"

if it wasn't clear, i knew that sparing meant spared players did not flip. what hadn't fully clicked was how, fundamentally, not receiving feedback can harm overall usable information.

i'm not sure i feel the same way now. i'm not opposed to fighting, but as much as i believe in the value of The Lynch (as a possibility, a threat, to hold over the heads of players you pressure) as a tool for sorting, it remains that my skills don't currently lie in using it most effectively.
though that isn't the case for everyone, or even the other players in this game.

i'd like to be careful about it, but Nacho deciding to defend me here is something i can't help but like. i do wonder about his list of reads, because from calling Replica "disingenous" (with negative connotations?) i didn't expect a strong townread.
not that i disagree with the conclusion, obviously, but i would like to know where it came from.
i also forget if he talked about why Sherlock is scum, but i still need to put some effort into Sherlock anyway.

In post 343, Chemist1422 wrote:

In post 342, Chara wrote:where do you see scum, Chemist?

not hectic
probably not you, rep, or asriel
I feel like pine is a cop-out push at this point so slightly lean town there

so that leaves sherlock/nacho/alim/amrun/suji

will probably work through this soon

when you say cop-out push, do you mean you think scum are pushing it, or just LHF?

In post 358, alimdia wrote:I don't have a strong TR on hectic, even tho he seems to be one of the few that understands what I'm saying at times. I can't give a TR just because of that. However, theres been so many people independently sparing Hectic, that if he were scum we would eventually lose anyway. I think most people's opinions are quite hard to change, so might as well spare him if everyone is going to afk and not fight.

provided Hectic is town, i think i like this attitude for town more than scum, in that it's going against the grain on a consensus townread but still begrudgingly going along with it. it feels like a weird angle to take if scum.

from a gameplay perspective i don't like it at all. change some opinions, alimdia, isn't that what the rest of your posts were for? if you give up because a hypothetical scum got TRed on day 1, then you give up on playing the game. though i don't believe Hectic is scum.

Amrun is a difficult case in that i agree with what she's said, and can identify with that. such as 254 as i mentioned. (about not wanting to let up on Sujimichi) but i don't know if making sense is enough.

Amrun, what about Replica did you like more? besides the contextual mistakes, which were rectified when pointed out, i feel like their posting feel has been fairly consistent since they replaced in.

Sherlock's opium binge has lasted almost 5 days now, would really be great if we could get some news from Watson here

In post 383, Chara wrote:

In post 343, Chemist1422 wrote:

In post 342, Chara wrote:where do you see scum, Chemist?

not hectic
probably not you, rep, or asriel
I feel like pine is a cop-out push at this point so slightly lean town there

so that leaves sherlock/nacho/alim/amrun/suji

will probably work through this soon

when you say cop-out push, do you mean you think scum are pushing it, or just LHF?

Just LHF but I do think scum are probably pushing it if I’m right

Hopefuly theres at least 24 hrs notice if the deadline is <24 hrs

Hello everyone, i'm the replacement of asriel. I have only skimmed the thread and the mod ISO so far. By VC 1.7 i noticed that i am consensus scumread (Fight-2) and Hectic is consensus townread (Spare-1). Does anyone want to provide a recap as to why the gamestate is like it is? I will reread anyways, but having a different POV based review would be helpful.

In post 350, Sujimichi wrote:Are you ready for me to Spare you?

In post 380, Chara wrote: there's the style to the posting (something that i believe is inherent to Replica, which is not AI in and of itself) first of all, which rings honest. i'm not explaining it well but i think it's something that's really difficult to fake, the way that Replica has essentially introduced themself and their methodology and then proceeded to apply it in a way that does not seem performative.
i kind of don't want to know who they are but i can't help wondering anyway.

you there.
they've been consistently open-minded and transparent.
only weird thing is i didn't agree with either of the assessments in 275.
the first looks like a fluff post not relevant to alignment.
the second is something others also expressed in-thread.
many didn't realise that SPARING means no flips = no information.
but then their thoughts on Asriel or Sherlock in 296 are very reasonable.
and this is similar across their ISO like in their interactions with Nacho.
willing to SPARE this pal too.

The IDIOT skeleton liked him early because he seemed natural/genuine, and liked how he pointed out Asriel's . But recently, he's felt a lot less engaged, and I don't understand keeping a SPARE vote on Asriel.

In post 312, Chemist1422 wrote:I’m not 100% on my Asriel spare, never was, but he hasn’t done anything to make him strongly trend down

I haven’t been that around tbh but you’re probably the only person I would consider moving my spare to

In post 329, Chemist1422 wrote:@Rep
I switched to Asriel from Hectic because I wanted do be doing something new with my vote

Really I don’t remember having a reason but it was probably something like that

In post 348, Chemist1422 wrote:Asriel's ISO to me is like

town null null null null etc.

really the only thing is towny tone and him having nothing against him

@Chemist: Howdy! If you're not 100% on your Asriel SPARE, does lurking and prodging not trend him down? If you wanted something new to do with your vote, why is locking it on Asriel useful, especially since Asriel disappeared?

In post 391, Hectic wrote:

In post 350, Sujimichi wrote:Are you ready for me to Spare you?

Yes, there are a few reasons:

1. I have a town read on you with a decent confidence level.
   
2. Others that I have a decent town read on for this game phase we also voting to Spare you.
   
3. There were two days left in the deadline for this phase at that point and activity, and substance, were on a downward trend.

I felt it was the best course of action at that time, though things have chance and now that Pine and Asriel Dreemur have been replaced I am interested to hear the thoughts of their replacements. So far, I would be willing to Fight the Pine/Psyche slot as they both have had the opportunity to contribute but still have not. I will assess my stance on Asriel Dreemur/Farkran, but I do not like the outsourcing that his first post contained.

hello Psyche, Farkran, thanks for stepping up.

Chemist: what's the difference between LHF and no-content/null? i understand where the Asriel TR came from, though i don't agree.
it will be nice to see more from both slots, however.

Hectic: about 275, i also found them to be minor things to focus on. but the elaboration on finding the tone duplicitous is i think understandable, especially given the persona i was roleplaying, so i don't find it strange to pick up on necessarily, in hindsight.

Caught up to page 10. I see that no one wants to give me a recap. I almost have a readlist ready though, and i have my thoughts about this gamestate.

Unrelated to my reads though, i think Sparing is the route favoring scum mostly, and i have noticed several players agreeing me there. So, why are we up to Spare-1 but only Fight-2? This looks inconsistent to me, or did anything happen in the latest 6 pages?

Besides, my highest scumread is currently Sujimichi. I find it odd that no one is fighting there, will provide details once i am up to date.

In post 390, Farkran wrote:Hello everyone, i'm the replacement of asriel. I have only skimmed the thread and the mod ISO so far. By VC 1.7 i noticed that i am consensus scumread (Fight-2) and Hectic is consensus townread (Spare-1). Does anyone want to provide a recap as to why the gamestate is like it is? I will reread anyways, but having a different POV based review would be helpful.

it's been fairly low activity, but invigorated by Replica's replacement, among other things. Hectic's attitude and amount of helpful interactions is why i TR him at least, plus pushing for content here and continuing to do so. delaying his own spare at i believe L-1 is something i like, since i find it likely he'd have had no problems if scum and he decided to tell alimdia (is that who it was?) to go ahead.
thinking on that i might rather spare Hectic over Replica after all, but i TR both of them. and no disrespect meant to Hectic, but i would like to see Replica continue to play in the main thread.

on the fighting side, your slot and Pine's have both been lurking, which is admittedly a rather boring (and bad) reason on its own, but given Asriel was actually checking the thread (while Pine was not) i wanted to press it.

but the game is short and easy to read, i think.

pedit: you're welcome.

In post 393, Hectic wrote:
The IDIOT skeleton liked him early because he seemed natural/genuine, and liked how he pointed out Asriel's

awkwardness

. But recently, he's felt a lot less engaged, and I don't understand keeping a SPARE vote on Asriel.

In post 312, Chemist1422 wrote:I’m not 100% on my Asriel spare, never was, but he hasn’t done anything to make him strongly trend down

I haven’t been that around tbh but you’re probably the only person I would consider moving my spare to

In post 329, Chemist1422 wrote:@Rep
I switched to Asriel from Hectic because I wanted do be doing something new with my vote

Really I don’t remember having a reason but it was probably something like that

In post 348, Chemist1422 wrote:Asriel's ISO to me is like

town null null null null etc.

really the only thing is towny tone and him having nothing against him

@Chemist: Howdy! If you're not 100% on your Asriel SPARE, does lurking and prodging not trend him down? If you wanted something new to do with your vote, why is locking it on Asriel useful, especially since Asriel disappeared?

Not particularly, honestly, especially since he was being open about not being interested in the game it feels more like an NAI thing

I didn’t ever intend to lock it on Asriel just didn’t think to move it at any point

In post 396, Chara wrote:hello Psyche, Farkran, thanks for stepping up.

Chemist: what's the difference between LHF and no-content/null? i understand where the Asriel TR came from, though i don't agree.
it will be nice to see more from both slots, however.

Hectic: about 275, i also found them to be minor things to focus on. but the elaboration on finding the tone duplicitous is i think understandable, especially given the persona i was roleplaying, so i don't find it strange to pick up on necessarily, in hindsight.

LHF is people who are getting pushed on specifically for that reason, or any other that makes them easy to lynch (abrasive personality, inability to produce content, bad reads)