Eh,
None of that case makes sense to me. So it's impossible to respond to.
@Kanna, You know in retrospect, I actually do see where the bulge is coming from. He put up one town read and then latched unto Bingle. I thought his level of confidence in his town read of me was off, but then the second I voted him he backed up on it. So maybe he wasn't that confident after all.
UNVOTE:
@Bingle: I don't see much of a reason why KMD is scum. I don't see much in the way of scum motivation in his posts.
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:17 am
by Bingle
In post 375, Bell wrote:@Bingle: I don't see much of a reason why KMD is scum. I don't see much in the way of scum motivation in his posts.
The scum motivation is active lurking. He RVS voted me and just kind of sat there while the wagon grew. When confronted about it, he made up a bunch of shit. When confronted about said shit, he ducked every question and dug his heels in while spouting a false narrative to try to get me eliminated. There's been no attempt to form a real read on me or he'd have known that all of the shit he's been spouting is shit.
Reck used the phrase "too scummy to be scum" but that's a bullshit reason to townread someone. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck I'm not going to assume it's a witch. Even if he is town, he's proven to me thoroughly he's not interested in actually solving the game and is at best a liability that I will shed 0 tears over.
That's not all though. From a wagonomics perspective, why would town KMD be this hard to eliminate? He's provably lying about his attempts to sort, at least as regards me, literally the only slot he's voted. For some reason, despite all the shit he's pulled to get support for a disingenuous wagon on me and despite me pushing hard for his elimination, no one wants to pursue him.
As far as Bell goes, Reck, you're gonna have to convince me harder than that. 33 shows that 23 obviously went over clidd's head. If they were scum together, I'd expect literally anything other than that response. If clidd scum and S&K town, I wouldn't expect clidd to bother with an analysis of where he agreed with S&K, especially in the immediate wake of you pointing out that he had 'serious reads' on people who hadn't even posted yet and two other people jumping on S&K for being scummy. Porkens brought up that his longer posts read as awkward (and was right) but as he switched to spamposting he came across as more and more natural. This leads me to believe the awkwardness was from trying to change his posting style to match the geriatric format and thus not AI, and I feel the timing of the replace out reinforces that.
I also think the slayer's gambit in 97 and the paranoia about people townreading him are both >rand town. 111 where he just kind of gives up also seems more town than not to me, and I agreed (then and now) that the wagon on S&K wasn't pure. More than that, it read as genuine. Even while giving up, though, he still did what he could to put thoughts in the thread and be productive. Bell's been pushing for content, although he's done nothing I don't think he'd be able to fake. I kind of liked his scumread but wait and see stance with me (it gets none of the towncred and all of the suspicion of actually pushing me when/if I flip, but also doesn't really advance the agenda of actually flipping me). I'm also not sure what Bulge has done that made him so town pushing him is scummy fypov and don't think Bulge presents as an easy elimination in any sense so I don't think the bulge push is all that objectionable.
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:22 am
by Sou and Kanna
I don’t want to go Bell
~kanna
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:27 am
by Sou and Kanna
In post 373, xRECKONERx wrote:the bingle/kmd back and forth is weird... kmd looks like he's ducking questions, but he's doing it in such a PAINFULLY obvious way that i can't see how he'd be scum? i know "too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy but i think this falls outside of that.
given prior slot interactions + avoidance of kmd/bingle + push on bulge im most confident here today
i know we are <24hrs till deadline so i will compromise if i can't get votes here but i feel kinda strongly about this
These are...not good reasons tbh
~k
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm
by Aristophanes
Searching for a replacement for Porkens
Deadline will be paused and increased to ~48 hours, rounded to maintain a reasonable timeline andcontinuing the 8:30pm EST post reset and day end deadline, when a replacement is found.
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:47 pm
by Aristophanes
Klick replaces Porkens!
Post count resets memain constant resetting daily at 8:30pm EST for this phase.
Deadline has been increased and will be reflected in the next VC.
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:54 pm
by Aristophanes
With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to Eliminate
Day one ends Wednesday, August 26th at 8:30pm EST, or in (expired on 2020-08-26 20:30:00)
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:00 pm
by Klick
Hiya everyone. I'll read up on this tomorrow afternoon.
I read about 6-7 pages a couple of days ago and the main things I remember thinking were that clidd was town and AGar looked fairly scummy.
In post 375, Bell wrote:@Bingle: I don't see much of a reason why KMD is scum. I don't see much in the way of scum motivation in his posts.
The scum motivation is active lurking. He RVS voted me and just kind of sat there while the wagon grew. When confronted about it, he made up a bunch of shit. When confronted about said shit, he ducked every question and dug his heels in while spouting a false narrative to try to get me eliminated. There's been no attempt to form a real read on me or he'd have known that all of the shit he's been spouting is shit.
Reck used the phrase "too scummy to be scum" but that's a bullshit reason to townread someone. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck I'm not going to assume it's a witch. Even if he is town, he's proven to me thoroughly he's not interested in actually solving the game and is at best a liability that I will shed 0 tears over.
That's not all though. From a wagonomics perspective, why would town KMD be this hard to eliminate? He's provably lying about his attempts to sort, at least as regards me, literally the only slot he's voted. For some reason, despite all the shit he's pulled to get support for a disingenuous wagon on me and despite me pushing hard for his elimination, no one wants to pursue him.
As far as Bell goes, Reck, you're gonna have to convince me harder than that. 33 shows that 23 obviously went over clidd's head. If they were scum together, I'd expect literally anything other than that response. If clidd scum and S&K town, I wouldn't expect clidd to bother with an analysis of where he agreed with S&K, especially in the immediate wake of you pointing out that he had 'serious reads' on people who hadn't even posted yet and two other people jumping on S&K for being scummy. Porkens brought up that his longer posts read as awkward (and was right) but as he switched to spamposting he came across as more and more natural. This leads me to believe the awkwardness was from trying to change his posting style to match the geriatric format and thus not AI, and I feel the timing of the replace out reinforces that.
I also think the slayer's gambit in 97 and the paranoia about people townreading him are both >rand town. 111 where he just kind of gives up also seems more town than not to me, and I agreed (then and now) that the wagon on S&K wasn't pure. More than that, it read as genuine. Even while giving up, though, he still did what he could to put thoughts in the thread and be productive. Bell's been pushing for content, although he's done nothing I don't think he'd be able to fake. I kind of liked his scumread but wait and see stance with me (it gets none of the towncred and all of the suspicion of actually pushing me when/if I flip, but also doesn't really advance the agenda of actually flipping me). I'm also not sure what Bulge has done that made him so town pushing him is scummy fypov and don't think Bulge presents as an easy elimination in any sense so I don't think the bulge push is all that objectionable.
okay, i dont choose to convince you harder than that bc tbh i am not sure you're actually town? idk. it's 330am and im drunk and the response to my points on clidd being "convince me harder" arent exactly compelling for me.
In post 373, xRECKONERx wrote:the bingle/kmd back and forth is weird... kmd looks like he's ducking questions, but he's doing it in such a PAINFULLY obvious way that i can't see how he'd be scum? i know "too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy but i think this falls outside of that.
What do you mean “falls outside that”?
~kanna
i mean that i think "too scum to be scum" is an easy thing to toss in here, but the extent to which kmd is ducking questions feels like way too far outside of the realm of "expectable scum play" and has entered a zone of "ok this is something to grasp onto"
given prior slot interactions + avoidance of kmd/bingle + push on bulge im most confident here today
i know we are <24hrs till deadline so i will compromise if i can't get votes here but i feel kinda strongly about this
These are...not good reasons tbh
~k
what more do you have, exactly
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:56 pm
by Michael Scott
Bell's town, and I'm pretty strong in Bingle!town now as well.
VOTE: kmd
Good with this.
-Jimothy
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:40 am
by The Bulge
sorry forgot to check in yesterday, I should have time for this tonight
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:42 am
by Klick
Spoiler: catchup notes
SK is fairly likely town
Why does Reck think the early DK reads list has any chance of being serious?
The subsequent argument is pointless in such a way that doesn't feel like what scum really wants to do early game. Town points for Reck
Clidd is obvtown from the very start and it does good things for Bingle that he immediately thought the same in post 34.
41 is a really towny post by Datisi, SK is solving and the note to Clidd seems like a legit town observation
64 is good too, there's a lot here I agree with. And the stuff I don't agree with is easy enough to see from Reck's perspective. Probtown
I agree with the general 'bugspray is probably scum' vibes. But I'm looking forward to Bulge's contribution to the slot
81 by AGar isn't doing anything good for me and I have no issues with him being scum so far. A few blanket opinions that don't really touch or look to engage with anything. Dunno how else to describe what I'm seeing here other than like, it feels like these reads were put out because AGar needed to have reads out there and there wasn't much else to it. Kinda reminds me of PranaDevil when I was buddies with him (which AGar was also in).
In post 94, Bingle wrote:43 also reeks of scum motivation. He consciously puffs up his posting to seem like there's more there than there is, while the tl;dr of the post is that he's scumreading S&K for puffing up their posting to make it seem like there's more there than there is.
This feels a bit nonsense. 43 was obvious parody of what SK were doing.
I played as scum vs town!him and my tone was basically the same I'm using here (which is why Porkens is scumreading me, because he also played as town in the same game) but KMD is kind of ignoring me.
Town!Kmd would look at my posts and vote instantly on me.
clidd makes this post because he's town and thinks he's caught Kmd-scum.
clidd does not make this post as scum, because it doesn't accomplish anything. This playerlist isn't going to be persuaded by a post like this and Clidd is aware enough to know that this won't do much for him as scum. Furthermore, clidd!scum doesn't need to randomly go in on Kmd at this stage (regardless of Kmd's alignment). It just draws attention to clidd without any payoff.
In post 111, clidd wrote:Can we eliminate me then ? 5 or 6 players are scumreading me for bad reasons (in my opinion) and this will probably continue on later stages of the game.
If we flip my slot, my opinions won't be coming from 'scum' anymore and you guys can reevaluate the wagon on SK.
It's likely that I will be eliminated by PoE too, which is another point of not wanting to be alive.
On a scale of 1-10 how likely is it that clidd-scum implodes like this while having a partner that's literally anyone except bugspray
and as scum, I think you’d always be hyperaware of how others are going to perceive you, and this kind of thing I’d think you’d think makes people like you less
~kanna
Yes exactly this.
I'm on exactly the same page as Auro in 183, which scares me a bit. I feel practically nothing about MS but like there are scummier slots atm and they're... fine. Maybe I should just BoP Auro at the end of this if I'm not feeling super convinced on any particular scumread.
I feel the same way about Bingle that I did during Team Mafia. I like what he's doing with the game, but I'm struggling to remove him from the PoE pool because I feel like it'd be really easy for him to keep me feeling relatively fine about him. My gut says to just call him town. I dunno what to do about this and I don't anticipate it changing soon. But like... I probably don't want to floss Bingle today. And I realise that's two slots that I feel very *murky* on (Bingle and MS) but them's the brakes.
In post 221, Sou and Kanna wrote:i poked them with a vote and asked them to explain them, but then they rep'd out. datisi has told me bugs doesn't like scum and perhaps this is a bit of a dirty read, but it really looked to me like they repped out cause they couldn't answer questions/was off to a bad start as scum.
I feel gross using this as reasoning, but yes this is right where I'm at with Bulgespray
clidd's posting on page 10/11 is literally just solving. Again, I'm seeing their posts as entirely from a town mindset at this point. The scum play there when everyone is saying clidd isn't doing anything isn't to give some empty reads list like in 251. He'd have to know that this playerlist wouldn't he thrilled with that.
Bingle wrote:
So... What about all the actual lying you did? No comment?
I don't lie. Even as scum. Good scum just vote scummy townies.
Mmm Kmd miiight be town? This doesn't feel like a helpful response to make as scum
Loving everything about 259 except for the actual conclusions lmao. Reck reestablishes that he's town with that. I think Reck really doesn't like how clidd is playing and thinks the things he's doing are things that town shouldn't be doing. That would be correct, but equally sometimes town are going to play far from how you want them to, and I think clidd's play makes very little sense coming from scum. I'm hoping I can get you to come around on this Reck
I'm unenthusiastic about the Kmd push. I'm not surprised at all by the things Bingle is citing that apparently make Kmd scum, and they come across as more lazy-/bad-tells than scumtells. Kmd is responding about how I'd expect him to as either alignment as well. But like Kmd is looking like someone I'd likely compromise on if I couldn't get a better floss going. I want to get more out of their back-and-forth than I seem to be getting.
Bell's 375 reiterates the above ^ in a way that I like.
In post 385, xRECKONERx wrote:i mean that i think "too scum to be scum" is an easy thing to toss in here, but the extent to which kmd is ducking questions feels like way too far outside of the realm of "expectable scum play" and has entered a zone of "ok this is something to grasp onto"
@Reck
I agree with this as a decent summary of why a Kmd push doesn't feel quite right. It's also very similar to the reasons that I don't view the clidd slot as likely scum at all. Read through some of my early points about clidd in this post and tell me what you think? Tl;dr I think several of clidd's posts really don't make sense as 'scum trying to accomplish anything useful for their alignment', particularly the ones before he had a ton of heat on him.
Summary of my reads:
- SK and Bell are very strong townreads that I can't see myself budging on unless something drastic happens. Reck is at about that level.
- Bingle and MS are both somewhat towny, but I'm reluctant to be confident in either of those reads. I'm not surprised that Jingle and Auro are making me feel this way - dunno what volxen's excuse is. they aren't D1 floss material.
- The Kmd wagon doesn't quite feel right to me. Kmd is barely leaning town and I disagree with the reasons for scumreading him. Feels like flossbait.
- I would have no problems with flossing AGar or Bulge. Neither feels towny at all to me. I don't have super solid reasons to scumread them (I very rarely do), but I'd be very surprised if both of these players were town.
VOTE: AGar
He has had far too little attention today for how many people have casually shaded him. I want to see where this goes.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:47 am
by Bingle
In post 385, xRECKONERx wrote:okay, i dont choose to convince you harder than that bc tbh i am not sure you're actually town? idk. it's 330am and im drunk and the response to my points on clidd being "convince me harder" arent exactly compelling for me.
It strikes me as odd that you're trying to form a EoD flashwagon that you personally feel strongly about and you won't expand on your reasoning, but okay. What do you make of my reasons for townreading Bellclidd?
@Klick: Where have people been shading Agar? I kind of thought he was a consensus tr and I don't really remember anyone expressing suspicion about him before now.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:03 am
by Bell
VOTE: KMD
E-1
E-1
E-1
@Bingoe aight.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:07 am
by Bell
He’s not a consensus town read to me.
But he has pushed quite clearly from a be townie or die perspective.
He’s in the trying too hard to be town or faking trying hard to be town category for me.
I won't be around much if at all til Thursday evening. I have to work because I'm important.
This was a crumb. I work at a prison. Im the jailkeeper.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:23 am
by Bell
UNVOTE:
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:24 am
by Bell
I’m really good at hitting PR’s as town.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:24 am
by Bell
Sad face.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:10 am
by Bingle
I'm not a JK or motion detector. Motion detector should claim here because the only result they can get at this point is that KMD targeted someone.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:36 am
by Sou and Kanna
y'all actually... making me play more on day one huh... UNVOTE:
not a jailkeeper nor a motion detector.
In post 396, Bingle wrote:I'm not a JK or motion detector. Motion detector should claim here because the only result they can get at this point is that KMD targeted someone.
you mean, motion detector should claim here because it's a direct counterclaim to the jailkeeper?
also hi klick!!!!
klick reminds me of his entrance in that switch game
you were town there right?
did you know i played there
haha bet you didn't
ok i'mma have to talk with kanna or something idk
why does this shit always happen when i'm drinking
~sou
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:39 am
by Bell
Not jk or motion detector.
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:41 am
by Bell
VOTE: Sou&Kanna
Ehhh.
Something ain’t right about sou.
Where’s the aggro?
slayer's gambit in 
I feel practically nothing about MS but like there are scummier slots atm and they're... fine. Maybe I should just BoP Auro at the end of this if I'm not feeling super convinced on any particular scumread.