In post 210, Flea The Magician wrote:The other thing is there's a PT for each room so we'd have knowledge of who is in what room. So if someone is where they're not meant to be we'd know by the next room phase.
Wait, is the same PT used for the same room. Like we'll be able to see who was in that room on N1 in N2? Man this leaves me with questions.
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In post 211, Bell wrote:Wait, wait, wait.
Is there even any hunting in this game.
We hunt later in the day phase. We got plenty of time to do so. And this is just a good way of kickstarting the game because everything said so far is probably sortable.
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In post 213, Battle Mage wrote:agree if it's on a plate due to a cop investigation or something, but otherwise I'm not keen on us elimming through half-assed scumhunting when we are all handicapped with post restrictions and the like.
We're not handicapped today.
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In post 215, SirCakez wrote:suddenly I want to yeet Flea for making my page size double
and also for doing the RQS thats gross
my post restrictions are incredibly strict and as such i think that'll hold true for many others
UNVOTE: because we need to get every conceivable second out of day 1 before deciding, as this is the only un-post-restricted day that we can mechtalk effectively
to that end, i don't understand - at all - a goal of having large groups. just intuitively, it seems like tasks will be pretty evenly spread across rooms, so having large groups restricts the amount of tasks we can do total. i think we should have groups of 2, maybe 3 if necessary - groups of 3 are entirely safe, groups of 2 are a 1 scum 1 town trade, which is worth it even for the most obvtown players
to that end, we're going to have to leash as effectively as possible without risking giving large amounts of information to scum. i'm considering if it's possible to develop some sort of method to decide what room everyone is going to WITHOUT divulging in advance the tasks of each player, and i don't believe we should continue to claim rooms until we have deduced if this is in fact possible.
In post 377, TheGoldenParadox wrote:my post restrictions are incredibly strict and as such i think that'll hold true for many others
UNVOTE: because we need to get every conceivable second out of day 1 before deciding, as this is the only un-post-restricted day that we can mechtalk effectively
to that end, i don't understand - at all - a goal of having large groups. just intuitively, it seems like tasks will be pretty evenly spread across rooms, so having large groups restricts the amount of tasks we can do total. i think we should have groups of 2, maybe 3 if necessary - groups of 3 are entirely safe, groups of 2 are a 1 scum 1 town trade, which is worth it even for the most obvtown players
to that end, we're going to have to leash as effectively as possible without risking giving large amounts of information to scum. i'm considering if it's possible to develop some sort of method to decide what room everyone is going to WITHOUT divulging in advance the tasks of each player, and i don't believe we should continue to claim rooms until we have deduced if this is in fact possible.
I do not think groups of two is a good idea.
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:40 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
this entire game will be quite difficult for both scumhunting and mech discussion after d1 so we need to hash as much as we can out right now and very very carefully go over our posts the next couple of days
scumhunting will be further affected by the common tell of scum analyzing and reading over their posts more before posting, so keep that in mind because everyone will now be doing that
In post 377, TheGoldenParadox wrote:my post restrictions are incredibly strict and as such i think that'll hold true for many others
UNVOTE: because we need to get every conceivable second out of day 1 before deciding, as this is the only un-post-restricted day that we can mechtalk effectively
to that end, i don't understand - at all - a goal of having large groups. just intuitively, it seems like tasks will be pretty evenly spread across rooms, so having large groups restricts the amount of tasks we can do total. i think we should have groups of 2, maybe 3 if necessary - groups of 3 are entirely safe, groups of 2 are a 1 scum 1 town trade, which is worth it even for the most obvtown players
to that end, we're going to have to leash as effectively as possible without risking giving large amounts of information to scum. i'm considering if it's possible to develop some sort of method to decide what room everyone is going to WITHOUT divulging in advance the tasks of each player, and i don't believe we should continue to claim rooms until we have deduced if this is in fact possible.
I do not think groups of two is a good idea.
why. why is groups of two not a good idea when every player in the game is leashed?
Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.
All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.
absolutely terrible
horrific
disgusting post
and you're probably town for it, because this level of superior reasoning doesn't come from scum
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:45 pm
by Taly
k i will listen for more people to discuss their thoughts
his reasons in that post are the same reasons why im not shelving
pooky/ali
here.
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:45 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
there must be safeguards in place for us to not simply out all information d1 and no elim our way to a task victory
fundamentally trying to diverge from a normal game of Mafia on d1 setup speculation does not seem at all likely to pan out into a win
Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.
All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.
In post 239, SirCakez wrote:I just don't think it makes sense at all
The reasons for the advantages in this plan have been stated in thread now
Said advantages were: "We can get our alternate win!" "Town doesn't have to fear the bonus NK!" among other things.
The first one would be nice, but we're in a closed setup with no idea of what scum can or cannot possibly do to Town. In Among Us, the game, Imposters could sabotage the ship in various ways. There's no reason to think that isn't the case here too.
The bonus NK is a moot point either way, and divulging our tasks here only makes it more likely to happen and to people we don't want it to.
In post 308, OutWorldER wrote:Like, I don't know how to get through to you all that hedging all of our bets on Task Completion and almost entirely ignoring traditional scumhunting is bad in a closed setup and the people who are pushing No Elim are probably scum.
Alright, let's talk.
Because quite frankly, I don't see the harm in encouraging conversation about this.
To me, I see an alternate way to win the game, and I feel like that's worth discussing. To me, I think killing is bad given said altnernate win condition.
However to you, you feel like the alternate wincon isn't worth your time.
I don't think anyone here is ignoring normal scumhunting. I think this is a great way to get the game started and to try to form reads. I'm personally a bit slow when it comes to forming reads, but either way I think this discussion is great because we get to see what alignment wants what.
So I just have a few questions.
How does leashing where everyone is going pro-scum?
Why do you think me and Pooky are doing this to not face pressure?
What is scum going to do with the information of knowing where everyone is going to go? How can they even do anything with that information if we're leashing them and forcing them to go to the room that the village wants them to go to. To my understanding, an extra kill can only happen when it's just 1 imposter and 1 villager. I understand you may be afraid of the unknown and I think its okay for you to be afraid of the unknown, but let's say their sabotage makes it so villagers are forced to go into a specific room or that they don't even have a sabotage at all. What are they going to do with that information?
Immediately trying to get town to divulge all the information scum could possibly want, pushing NE's so they don't have to face any possible pressure, and distracting town away from actual scumhunting with our alternate win condition.
All of this is a favorable game-state for scum, not town. Town should want the locations they have to go to be secret so that scum can't plan where they're going without making reads (outside of circumstances were Town should want to team up with other Town in a hood.) Town should want scum elims for obvious reasons AND to reduce likelihood of the big scary extra kill. Town will still want regular elims for the reasons we always want regular elims. Tasks become distributable anyways when they die and we can push the public tasks to people who are widely TR'd and already going to the same location (which would be a scenario we'd actually want to have people claiming tasks.)
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Please stop falling for scum ploys to give them a favorable gamestate.
absolutely terrible
horrific
disgusting post
and you're probably town for it, because this level of superior reasoning doesn't come from scum
I'm somewhat confused because this post is obvious disagreement with me.
In post 386, TheGoldenParadox wrote:there must be safeguards in place for us to not simply out all information d1 and no elim our way to a task victory
fundamentally trying to diverge from a normal game of Mafia on d1 setup speculation does not seem at all likely to pan out into a win
But then this one is basically saying the same point I've been trying to scream at other people the entire time?
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:48 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
In post 385, Taly wrote:ewww, but i dont like that people say ower is town WHILE disparaging his post. 229
his reasons in that post are the same reasons why im not shelving pooky/ali here.
essentially, his post lacks GOOD reasons. he calls this a favorable game-state for scum when there's, like, a very simple explanation and reasonably plausible town motivation behind the posts of both pooky and alisae. he attacks them for "scum ploys" when it's very reasonable for this to be coming from motivated driven town.
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:51 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
In post 389, OutWorldER wrote:But then this one is basically saying the same point I've been trying to scream at other people the entire time?
because the way you say it is absolutely, horribly, terrible
you not only attempt to attack alisae and pooky, but you, just, ascribe scum motivation to them when their thought processes and posts are absolutely your point
and like, i still 80% agree with them, i'm agreeing with you to an extent, but from what I can see you're completely ignoring the unique mechanics of this game.
essentially. they're going a bit overboard on trying to game mechanics they don't know enough about, but you are not only attacking them for that, you're doing the opposite, far more strongly than they are
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:51 pm
by Bell
He's saying he thinks that your reasoning is too detailed to come from scum.
But he's head slapping you and telling you what the pecking order is.
Maybe, probably?
I don't agree tho, I think scum role spec quite often and then come into the game and lead on that foot because it's unblemished from a scum role perspective.
It's a good entry and always tends to get scum town read early game before better reasons shine through (or don't).
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
by Alisae
In post 306, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i am going to be much lower post count when i get post restricted cuz my post restriction is kinda annoying
one of my post restrictions I have a work around for.
The other I don't :/
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
i've come to the conclusion that no eliminating is not a good idea. the simple reason is that we NEED a scumflip. like alisae said, we want to know what alignment wants what in terms of original setup, and thus no eliminating denies us a scumflip and provides us with no way out if our mechanical plan fails for any one of a myriad of reasons.
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:54 pm
by Bell
I feel like I said this.
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:54 pm
by TheGoldenParadox
In post 392, Bell wrote:He's saying he thinks that your reasoning is too detailed to come from scum.
But he's head slapping you and telling you what the pecking order is.
Maybe, probably?
I don't agree tho, I think scum role spec quite often and then come into the game and lead on that foot because it's unblemished from a scum role perspective.
It's a good entry and always tends to get scum town read early game before better reasons shine through (or don't).
you DID say this, but you said it accompanied with a bunch of other, far worse points.
you already made, like, this exact same mistake in mbos large. don't make it again.
