Mafiascum.net

In post 3339, InsidiousLemons wrote:

In post 3335, Asteria wrote:We know for fact that one of the claims is lying now. We have 4 guns claimed and 4 guns total. I don't think Lemons and Koba are both lying so I'm thinking we are dealing with a traitor. If one of them is lying I would bet Koba. Lemons is in a good position right now as scum and this would be a really risky move. Especially since if we do elim me or koba and find out they are town, Lemons would be in a very bad position.

i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

sound reasonable to anyone else?

In post 3350, InsidiousLemons wrote:

In post 3345, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 3339, InsidiousLemons wrote:i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

I’m not following this logic at all. Walk me through it like I was a child.

we have 4 gunned PR claims:
- Andante as gunsmith (confirmed)
- Asteria as neapolitan (unconfirmed)
- DK as weak vig (unconfirmed)
- me as role cop (unconfirmed)

knowing that we have 4 guns in play, the possibilities are:

- Andante + 2 gunned mafia + {Asteria, Dk, or me}
- Andante + 1 gunned mafioso + {Asteria and Dk, Asteria and me, or Dk and me)

Asteria is approaching this from the perspective that 2 people are telling the truth, which puts us in the second scenario. she asserts that these 2 people are myself and Dk, which would make

asteria herself the liar.

what sense does it make for a real Neapolitan to make this mistake? did she forget what was in her role PM? did she forget that andante died? not likely. what's more plausible to me is that, because

in her own mind

she is already accounted for as the gunned mafioso, she forgot to account for herself again in the PR pool.

it is impossible for nea!asteria to believe that Dk and I are both telling the truth, because that theory refutes her own claim.

the only way for this to have happened is by a massive blunder of logic, and the explanation for that blunfer that makes the most sense to me is that asteria forgot to account for herself in the PR claims.

In post 3356, Andresvmb wrote:So if Asteria is telling the truth, given your Role Cop Claim, DkKoba has to be lying. But that’s it no? Who else has claimed anything?

In post 3358, Andresvmb wrote:But I don’t see how Asteria is implying that they’re Scum with the assumption that DkKoba and you Insidious aren’t both lying. If only one of them is lying, doesn’t scenario 2 still allow for Asteria to be Town? That’s what I’m not getting.

In post 3359, Andresvmb wrote:Like Asteria didn’t assert Insidious and Koba are both telling the truth, but I think Asteria was saying that they think only one of them is not. That’s different than what your interpretation is.

I’m trying to be careful with this because Scum slips are rare, and this one doesn’t feel like one at all to me.

In post 3362, Andresvmb wrote:Frankly we need to sort out between {Asteria, Koba}. No other execution makes any sense, and VFP pushing Anya is absurd. If we get it right, we mostly likely clear 3 other players and put the Scum on the ropes. Take it that Insidious is telling the truth. I already had Pooky as very likely Town so I’ll buy the clear, which now 2 different players have confirmed in different ways (remember, Andante also cleared them of a gun and now we know they’re not a Doctor. They would have to be strictly Traitor and I’m not seeing that). So, Pooky would be cleared, and the two other gun claims would be cleared. That leaves a really narrow pathway to victory for Scum.

In post 3367, InsidiousLemons wrote:

In post 3360, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 3350, InsidiousLemons wrote:she asserts that these 2 people are myself and Dk, which would make asteria herself the liar.

Like yeah I think this assumption is incorrect. You should have asked to clarify before I think. I don’t take Asteria’s statement to mean that she thinks you and Koba are both telling the truth. The statement absolutely leaves the option open that 1 of you is lying, just not the both of you.

you're totally right. disregard everything I've said about this being a scumslip, i simply misread "i don't think both koba and lemons are lying" as "i don't think koba and lemons are lying"

In post 3369, Andresvmb wrote:Oh wait wait. No. The Neapolitan gets a Vanilla Townie result right?

In post 3372, Andresvmb wrote:Wait so how do we ever not execute between Asteria and Koba here? What other execution even remotely makes sense? If Koba flips Scum, that’s good, we have a circle of trust of sorts and the Scum is outside. Unless there’s no Traitor and one of the PRs is Scum.

In post 3382, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 3381, VFP wrote:Why does it make it false when the claim can get 2 town PRs mis lynched and just win the game?
It's not genius it's pretty basic scum play.

Well I doubt that Insidious is lying about their actual Role then. So the Scum have a N2 Role Cop, a Mafia Doctor, and a Role Blocker?

In post 3799, VFP wrote:I feel like we just have 1 scum in Dk + asteria and 1 scum in Lemons + Clidd

Right now I'm thinking asteria + Lemons as the scum team.
With a sprinkle of Anya.

In post 3776, InsidiousLemons wrote:i'm beginning to convince myself that it is actually koba. as much as i abhor their (koba's) post history, clidd has backed up koba's own assertion that nothing they're doing is outside of their range for either alignment, and i could read much (not all) of koba's frustration as genuine.

n2 rolecop and non-con neo is not an unimaginable combination, but is n2 rolecop + non-con neo + informed gs even strong enough to go toe-to-toe with our hypothetical doctor + goon + traitor roleblocker scumteam, let alone if the roleblocker is a bonafide member of the mafia?

n2 rolecop + n1 detective is even weaker against those scumteams, and regardless i really don't get the sense that salsa is the type of player who would withhold night action info. nonetheless, in D1, salsa does indeed seem suspicious enough of you (1524, 1526, 1534, etc.) that i could believe she investigated you N1.

there's almost nothing to go off of D2 (i.e., after she would have checked you), but does 2489 really strike you as possible from a salsa who

knows

you didn't kill anyone the previous night? and does a salsa with this partially-absolving information on you, who was suspicious enough of you on D1 to emphatically state "you're scum!" (1524), withhold it the next day? it's almost unthinkable. i could see a universe where clidd skimmed salsa's iso for a player she pushed D1 and decided to claim something modest based off of that. the meagre nature of the claim, the safety of claiming an innocent result on an already-conftown player, and the perceived boldness/foolishness of this claim coming from scum could easily be enough to convince clidd to make this play.

but the last reason for me to think that my partner-in-truth is koba (and possibly most the convincing reason, though i leave that question to all of you) is this same thing i keep getting stuck on -- does a setup with a mafia doctor and

no town killing roles

seriously make it into the normal queue? all the claims are out. there's no reason for an unclaimed vig to lie at this point, that i can see. this is kind of an open question, so please tell me if you think it's possible this setup could in fact get past the review process. it just seems so unlikely to me that a setup so bastardly and deceptive would be allowed in a non-open game.

In post 3318, InsidiousLemons wrote:

In post 3303, Andresvmb wrote:My vote is completely unrelated to mechanics.

I think Town!Koba more aggressively pushes me if they disagree with me, and I think they hold their ground a lot stronger. Hammering T3 after they had already identified them as Town low hanging fruit just doesn’t sit right me. I refuse to believe this is Town Koba.

i'm not familiar with koba's meta but the attempt to defend themself has been weak so far. combine this with the fact that i can finally reveal that i essentially

KNOW for a fact

that either Asteria or Koba or both are lying about having a gun (2 gunned mafia + me + Andante = 4; 1 gunned mafia + Andante + Asteria + me = 4) and voila. the second scenario is already a bit of a stretch to me because it relies on the existence of a traitor. asteria is very possibly lying as well

VOTE: DkKoba

In post 3515, InsidiousLemons wrote:UNVOTE:

In post 3400, VFP wrote:Normal Guidelines
A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

In post 3410, DkKoba wrote:I called out lemon and now today theyre claiming role cop not on me which is BS

In post 3424, DkKoba wrote:I feel like lemon claimed here so that they could resist my legacy read on them but also in a way that doesn't lock them in a cc with either PR

In post 3464, Andresvmb wrote:You’ve also used the “Scum slip” attack twice now. Once on Andante, and now on Asteria.

Look, it’s time to call bullshit. I will sheep VFP and execute amongst {Anya, Insidious}.

In post 3493, Anya wrote:

In post 3403, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 2947, Anya wrote:asteria/dkkoba + t3? + bear??

Here’s the thing. This is a fascinating solve by Anya. Don’t you think? It heavily implies that a Traitor is present in the game. By this stage, you have a claim by Andante that there’s 4 guns, Koba is a claimed Weak Vig as per 2032, Andante is a claimed Gunsmith (but not in the solve, as per 1182, 1212), and Asteria is a claimed Neapolitan (2134). With a Mafia Doc, you know that either 2 of Asteria/Koba/Andante is Scum, or 1 is with a Traitor present. But they don’t seem to entertain the alternative at all if I’m not wrong. So if you TR Andante say, wouldn’t you speak about the entire situation, and how it could mean that both Asteria and Koba are Scum together?

i didn't see the 4 guns thing from andante

asteria and dkkoba were going for each other at the time and i felt like 1 of them was wolf

In post 3496, clidd wrote:Also: I'm a town one-shot detective who got a negative result on Pooky during the N1 (he didn't try to kill anyone that night).

This may be useful for the setup spec ^

In post 3504, DkKoba wrote:this implies lemon/asteria are scum

In post 3510, VFP wrote:At this point is might be worth Anya, Osuka, and Andre claiming.
Since everyone is already outed and there's most likely 2+ scum in the PRs.

In post 3527, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:


I don't think it's possible for us to be playing in a 0 gun scum world because that would be massive trolling by Datisi and the NRG.

I'd like to mass claim to figure out what the setup is and where the best elim is today.

I am a Vanilla Townie.

In post 3804, Anya wrote:

In post 3776, InsidiousLemons wrote:i'm beginning to convince myself that it is actually koba. as much as i abhor their (koba's) post history, clidd has backed up koba's own assertion that nothing they're doing is outside of their range for either alignment, and i could read much (not all) of koba's frustration as genuine.

n2 rolecop and non-con neo is not an unimaginable combination, but is n2 rolecop + non-con neo + informed gs even strong enough to go toe-to-toe with our hypothetical doctor + goon + traitor roleblocker scumteam, let alone if the roleblocker is a bonafide member of the mafia?

n2 rolecop + n1 detective is even weaker against those scumteams, and regardless i really don't get the sense that salsa is the type of player who would withhold night action info. nonetheless, in D1, salsa does indeed seem suspicious enough of you (1524, 1526, 1534, etc.) that i could believe she investigated you N1.

there's almost nothing to go off of D2 (i.e., after she would have checked you), but does 2489 really strike you as possible from a salsa who

knows

you didn't kill anyone the previous night? and does a salsa with this partially-absolving information on you, who was suspicious enough of you on D1 to emphatically state "you're scum!" (1524), withhold it the next day? it's almost unthinkable. i could see a universe where clidd skimmed salsa's iso for a player she pushed D1 and decided to claim something modest based off of that. the meagre nature of the claim, the safety of claiming an innocent result on an already-conftown player, and the perceived boldness/foolishness of this claim coming from scum could easily be enough to convince clidd to make this play.

but the last reason for me to think that my partner-in-truth is koba (and possibly most the convincing reason, though i leave that question to all of you) is this same thing i keep getting stuck on -- does a setup with a mafia doctor and

no town killing roles

seriously make it into the normal queue? all the claims are out. there's no reason for an unclaimed vig to lie at this point, that i can see. this is kind of an open question, so please tell me if you think it's possible this setup could in fact get past the review process. it just seems so unlikely to me that a setup so bastardly and deceptive would be allowed in a non-open game.

the more you humour them being wolf without actually voting for them the more i think you're partners

why not just pull the trigger

In post 3800, VFP wrote:So far we have concerning who the PRs think are scum (correct me if I'm wrong)

Dk - Clidd + Lemons
Lemons - asteria + Clidd
Clidd - asteria + Lemons

Just need asteria to confirm who they think the 2 scum would be now.

In post 3578, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 2950, Datisi wrote:Asteria [5]: DkKoba, Salsabil Faria, Andresvmb, InsidiousLemons, Anya

Asteria is the least likely to be Scum. Three of the Gun claims are on this wagon.

In post 3580, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 1750, Datisi wrote:Green Crayons [5]: PookyTheMagicalBear, VFP, Robert M Hunter, Andante, T3

And this wagon looks pretty wholesome.

In post 3583, Anya wrote:

In post 3527, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:


I don't think it's possible for us to be playing in a 0 gun scum world because that would be massive trolling by Datisi and the NRG.

I'd like to mass claim to figure out what the setup is and where the best elim is today.

I am a Vanilla Townie.

clidd gun claim came last which is probably town dunno why he'd wanna put himself in that poe if he's wolf

also salsa was clearly town when she reacted to osuka

i'm vt

In post 3622, clidd wrote:Is a solve with Lemons + Asteria + Osuka possible?

In post 3652, osuka wrote:

In post 3350, InsidiousLemons wrote:

In post 3345, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 3339, InsidiousLemons wrote:i'm willing to call this a scumslip. in trying to curry favour by defending players she knows to be town, scum!asteria has revealed that she is mentally counting herself as armed mafioso rather than as her real claim. town!asteria does not believe that koba and i are both telling the truth, because to believe so necessitates the belief that none of the mafia are armed. and we know she didn't just miss the andante flip because she directly quotes anya's "rip andante" message earlier in the same post.

I’m not following this logic at all. Walk me through it like I was a child.

we have 4 gunned PR claims:
- Andante as gunsmith (confirmed)
- Asteria as neapolitan (unconfirmed)
- DK as weak vig (unconfirmed)
- me as role cop (unconfirmed)

knowing that we have 4 guns in play, the possibilities are:

- Andante + 2 gunned mafia + {Asteria, Dk, or me}
- Andante + 1 gunned mafioso + {Asteria and Dk, Asteria and me, or Dk and me)

Asteria is approaching this from the perspective that 2 people are telling the truth, which puts us in the second scenario. she asserts that these 2 people are myself and Dk, which would make

asteria herself the liar.

what sense does it make for a real Neapolitan to make this mistake? did she forget what was in her role PM? did she forget that andante died? not likely. what's more plausible to me is that, because

in her own mind

she is already accounted for as the gunned mafioso, she forgot to account for herself again in the PR pool.

it is impossible for nea!asteria to believe that Dk and I are both telling the truth, because that theory refutes her own claim.

the only way for this to have happened is by a massive blunder of logic, and the explanation for that blunfer that makes the most sense to me is that asteria forgot to account for herself in the PR claims.

oh yeah i didnt notice that. good catch

it's almost as if ive been saying that slot is scum. that sounds familiar to me but i can't figure out why for the life of me

In post 3662, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:how does lemons know i am a vanilla townie !?!?

In post 3678, InsidiousLemons wrote:i agree with a lot of the points being made on dk and by play they are a very solid scumread for me. what i'm getting stuck on is that, as multiple people have pointed out, if there's a "real" vig they would have almost certainly cc'd or managed to kill someone by now. and if there is no other vig, then we have to ask ourselves: does a setup with a red herring mafia doctor really make it into the normal queue? my strong suspicion is no, but i'm unfamiliar with the approval process so i'd like to hear from people who are

In post 3724, VFP wrote:Anyway...

So at this point all 4 PRs should give 2 favoured scum in the PR claims.

In post 3772, InsidiousLemons wrote:wait nevermind that second point i keep forgetting the traitor knows who the mafia are i promise i'm not trying to dumbtell

p-edit ah fuck okay lemme reread

makes me think clidd is probably just scum and claiming in hope of more TPR elims.