Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[unwnd]

mastina isn't a counterwagon to the guilty

I am fine with killing either one. My war is against mastina apologists

We have a claimed guilty on the field, and that takes priority. mastina's not going anywhere, and stubbornly sticking to her is anti-Town at best.

OK you can think whatever you want I am not picky about killing either lmao

[unwnd]

Furtiveglance/Mastina/PPF

DDS/

Ydrasse

/T-Bone

are my scumreads

[Past Present Future]

Why is everyone continuing to ignore the obvious elephant in the room. MMR is saying they and Mastina can’t have a similar role if I’m understanding this correctly?

Unless there’s an unknown scum role that is similar to their claim and I would like more discussion about that because I don’t know what to make of it if no other role should exist.

Anyway, I don’t like unwnd who understands mech is not commenting on that at all.

[Past Present Future]

Furtiveglance/Mastina/PPF

DDS/

Spoiler:

Ydrasse

/T-Bone

are my scumreads

Are you planning to explain any of these reads? You’ve only commented so far on us and Mastina, what is your reasoning for the rest?

[Past Present Future]

Wrt Ydrasse, she could be scum but I tr STD, so \_0_/.

[Past Present Future]

I'll try and stir up motivation tmo morning.

~Titus

[MMR]

Why is everyone continuing to ignore the obvious elephant in the room. MMR is saying they and Mastina can’t have a similar role if I’m understanding this correctly?

Unless there’s an unknown scum role that is similar to their claim and I would like more discussion about that because I don’t know what to make of it if no other role should exist.

Anyway, I don’t like unwnd who understands mech is not commenting on that at all.

I'm saying that mastina has a high chance of being scum with a similar role.
-Rubella

[mastina]

So much of PPF's iso this day is the same things repeated again and again,all of which are entirely self centered and do not read other players.
- mastina is town
- i would never kill prof
- people who oppose me are scum
- mathblade, please stop reminding people that there is a guilty on me

- i have a confirmable role as early as tomorrow*

*terms and conditions may apply

Compare this to how Titus apparently is going to make a reads list in the future, but nancy won't even post an inkling of information, because, uhhh, when nancy makes readslists nancy gets shit on? Why is getting shit on a concern to you when you are at death's door + you are already getting shit on? Why won't nancy even take the first step to making reads on other players when I asked who was scum on wagon? Why is nancy concerned about getting shit on if they have a role that is confirmable as early as tomorrow**?

** professional driver on closed course, do not attempt

Bunny knew they were dying soon and did their best to give all their information away, even though they had next to nothing. PPF is one of the top posters in the game and refuses to give anything away. I think the answer is that they know they are dying soon and don't want to give any information away. They will instead quote this post and make a snarky remark.

Funny thing about this.

You know what that is?

It's that not all players are the same.

There's no cookie cutter universal playbook.

What Bunnyonce did is reflective of Greeting and Aisa as players. That matches what you are saying you feel a town player should do.

But not all town players fit that mold.

And Nancy in particular does not. (As a general rule of thumb, players whose posting style is more reactive overall typically are the ones furthest from the "expected mold", because being reactive, their reactions mean they are reacting in ways that do not match the mindset assumed to be default, because the assumed default mindset is that town would be proactive, in spite of that not being universally true. Nancy is a perfect example of that.)

The things you mention are cookie cutter scumtells.
They are not Nancy scumtells.
In fact, quite the opposite!
They are some of the strongest possible towntells for Nancy to display.

[mastina]

People should really take a stance on MMR/PPF if they aren’t willing to elim so I know where people want to shoot at bare minimum
But we should be elimming one of them.

I mean, I'm voting MMR.

PPF is

always

town here. Period. End of discussion. They are

never

scum here, EVER.

MMR is almost always scum here. There's like a 5% world where they are town that was somehow roleblocked and managed to badly botch every aspect of their role from play to mechanics to target selection in spite of all three players being players who shouldn't do so.
But 95% of the time, they are scum and even in that 5% world where they

somehow

aren't, PPF is still town anyway.

[mastina]

I have neither the time nor energy to read through whatever nonsense has been filling the thread this time, but it really seems pretty straightforward to me.

MMR claimed a soft-guilty from Loyal, but apparently doesn't trust their own result.

PPF has claimed not ascetic, so the only other way the result isn't guilty from Town!MMR is if there was a roleblocker, which I find to be exceedingly unlikely given the multiple PR claims a roleblocker might target instead, and the existence of a roleblocker at all being unconfirmed.

So AT LEAST one of them HAS to be scum. SvS is possible, but TvT is such a remote possibility as to not be worth considering. I think MMR's claim is a dishonest attempt at influencing an elimination while avoiding responsibility for the flip, so I'm willing to bet MMR is scum here and want to flip them first, see what their role actually is, and judge PPF from there.

I do understand the desire to just follow the guilty instead, but thinking critically about this the claim just doesn't make sense, so I prefer that be settled first.

This, among others.

You know what else?

MMR deflected when I tried to get them to be explicit about this:

Each night, we target a player to see if they're VT or not. If they're not Town or our action doesn't go through, we get no result.

And you're claiming the name of your role is...what, exactly?

What is the name of your role?
As close as you can get paraphrasing to avoid the modkill, how is it formatted/phrased?

I had good reason for asking this!
Their 3730 was itself deflecting, but they've yet to answer 3734 in spite of having posted multiple times after.

Y'all know the ol' DGB saying, right?
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes a lifetime.

What is so hard about stating the name of their role, and the closest possible paraphrase without getting modkilled?

It's almost like they have good reason to not answer that!

[mastina]

Yeah it does feel really sleazy from MMR to tack that on, and I am now saying we should kill only in MMR/PPF today (changed from PPF/mastina), and I think the most likely case is SvS different alignments, (probably ppf solar mmr lunar based on night actions) and i don't have anything else to say without repeating myself for 5 pages and the quiet people need to talk, so get to it.

Actually,

Scarfmanship:

you

are the one who needs to "get to it":

past Present Future (3) Toogeloo, Enchant, Scarfmanship [E-5]
MMR (3) Radical Rat, T-bone , Mastina [E-5]

Past Present Future has equal votes to MMR--with you willing to vote for either PPF or MMR.

If you really don't care which of the two you want to eliminate, why are you still on PPF and equaling the wagons, rather than MMR to tip the wagons in one direction?

[Yume]

VOTE: MMR

[Yume]

Also

Spoiler: for mastina

I am in fact capable of emulating my town meta as scum

[mastina]

What motivation does scum Loyal claim a failed action?

Well scum wouldn't actually be Loyal, but ultimately, it's very simple:

MMR is claiming a Loyal investigation on PPF which failed.
This is a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.

If it is taken to be a claim of a guilty, though, then that means there is basically a guaranteed scum in MMR and PPF.

Past Present Future is never scum here, ever. EVER ever.

Ergo, if there is a scum in the two, it is MMR.

The "why they did it" doesn't need to be something we know--they did it.

MMR claimed a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.
This happened, period.

There are many possible motivations behind it.

I have my

guesses

.
MMR felt boxed in;
MMR thought they could get away with it due to it being a soft-guilty and not eat a death afterwards from "oh well, guess we were roleblocked";
MMR genuinely believes PPF is scum for some reason but is wrong, and believes that an elimination on PPF will have no consequences since fakeclaiming a guilty on opposite scum still gets an opposite scum dead;
MMR knows PPF to be town, but has a role-related reason for wanting to eliminate PPF this day phase (notably, say the same thing which gave scum incentive to push MathBlade/Dingle Dangle Scarecrow yesterday).

But none of those I can really know.

What I do know is that Past Present Future cannot be scum, and therefore, MMR cannot have a real guilty on them.

And analyzing the claim and target and handling of it gives overwhelming reasons for MMR to be scum, with literally the

only

reason for MMR to be town being "scum wouldn't do this"--that's literally it.

Unless you wanna tell me something about MMR that isn't "scum wouldn't do this", that's the legit only reason they have to be town.
Their role itself looks like a scumclaim;
Their handling of it looks like a scumclaim;
Their target selection looks like a scumclaim;
Everything they are doing, looks like scum.

At some point, "scum wouldn't do this" becomes overwhelmed by the mountain of evidence demonstrating that, well. They did.

[mastina]

Also

Spoiler: for mastina

I am in fact capable of emulating my town meta as scum

Emulating, yes, but looking at your posts there, there's many things in this game that were absent from that game. You can emulate most of the package. You cannot emulate literally ALL of it.

It was good enough of an emulation at the time to work for the majority of the game against everyone who knew you--but it wasn't perfect, and given the benefit of hindsight, I can see the flaws there. (On that note, that specific game* I didn't remember how to read you anyway.) There are still signs of your scumgame there that I actually picked up early, but then discarded because of the similarities to your towngame you successfully emulated.

Those scumgame signs are absent here.

Spoiler: *

(Speaking of that game, that was the last game I had a three-page iso which I am well on the way to having here. I had very strong pushes on multiple town players that I believed were scum, which I later reevaluated into correct townreads. Even better, I got close to being eliminated at least twice. Sound familiar? It should. Turns out I am surprisingly static as a player in a lot of ways. )

[mastina]

[unwnd, furtive, Firebringer] contains one, possibly two scum is what I'm saying.

It's definitely three.

Probably not all of one scumteam, but there's no realm in which there's town in those names.

There's seven names for six scum, and a town in there would mean literally all of {MMR, Radical Rat, Toogeloo, Scarfmanship} would be, by necessity, scum.

You will obviously argue that you are not scum.

Tbh at this stage I think you're less scum than unwnd/Firebringer are, maybe even furtive (tho you are comparable to furtive in scum levels). So it's possible, albeit unlikely.
And MMR is just scum, regardless, just scum off my wagon.
But Toogeloo and Scarfmanship are the townier two names in that pool of seven. (One is still scum anyway, but they're at least townier compared to the other five.)

In terms of scum it goes something like,
unwnd = MMR > Firebringer > furtiveglance

>

Radical Rat > Scarfmanship > Toogeloo,
Most to least.


For the record, current teams look something like,

{MMR, ??, ??}

{??, ??, ??}
Radical Rat is not paired with MMR obviously.

Firebringer's slot (Frozen Angel) and Toogeloo's slot (Maid Cafe) both voted MMR early, but neither of them at times MMR was at risk.
Scarfmanship was voting MMR, so that makes it less likely for Scarf to be scum with MMR.

MMR voted unwnd's slot dangerously close to lethal, so MMR less likely scum with unwnd.

Which leaves the possible MMR scumbuddies as {furtiveglance, Firebringer, Toogeloo},
And the current other team as some combination of,
{Radical Rat, Scarfmanship, unwnd, the not-MMR-buddy in furtive/Toogeloo/Firebringer}.

furtiveglance pushed Scarfmanship when there was a risk of Scarfmanship being lethal, so less likely scum together.
furtiveglance pushed Radical Rat to L-1, so not scum with them.
Scarfmanship similarly so (identical link).

Which leads to furtive only being possible scum with Firebringer/Toogeloo/unwnd/MMR.

MMR + 2/3 of {Firebringer, Toogeloo, furtiveglance} on a team;
furtiveglance + 2/3 of {MMR, Firebringer, Toogeloo, unwnd} on a team.

Opposite team has 3 of
{Radical Rat, Scarfmanship, Firebringer/Toogeloo}.

I'm losing a lot of steam here, I think I can narrow it down better.

But loosely speaking, surface-level, I'd guess
{MMR, furtiveglance, Firebringer/Toogeloo};
{unwnd, Radical Rat-OR-Scarfmanship, Firebringer-or-Toogeloo}.

This surface-level analysis actually says there's one town in RR/Scarfmanship, and one team mostly known.
But like--I'm too tired to continue fact-checking (is 5:30, this wasn't meant to be a post where I dived the scumteams), so like. I might be missing combos, might be missing answers, etc. I'll figure it out later.

[Ydrasse]

mathblade vote waiting room

[Enchant]

After consideration i think i don't know who to trust

While i realise you can botch your claim as town, but failing to tell "i am informed about scum being my double" is ridicolous and sounds like something you make up afterwards.

Therefore, i am more inclined to vote MMR now.
UNVOTE:

[furtiveglance]

[unwnd, furtive, Firebringer] contains one, possibly two scum is what I'm saying.

It's definitely three.

Probably not all of one scumteam, but there's no realm in which there's town in those names.

There's seven names for six scum, and a town in there would mean literally all of {MMR, Radical Rat, Toogeloo, Scarfmanship} would be, by necessity, scum.

You will obviously argue that you are not scum.

Tbh at this stage I think you're less scum than unwnd/Firebringer are, maybe even furtive (tho you are comparable to furtive in scum levels). So it's possible, albeit unlikely.
And MMR is just scum, regardless, just scum off my wagon.
But Toogeloo and Scarfmanship are the townier two names in that pool of seven. (One is still scum anyway, but they're at least townier compared to the other five.)

In terms of scum it goes something like,
unwnd = MMR > Firebringer > furtiveglance

>

Radical Rat > Scarfmanship > Toogeloo,
Most to least.


For the record, current teams look something like,

{MMR, ??, ??}

{??, ??, ??}
Radical Rat is not paired with MMR obviously.

Firebringer's slot (Frozen Angel) and Toogeloo's slot (Maid Cafe) both voted MMR early, but neither of them at times MMR was at risk.
Scarfmanship was voting MMR, so that makes it less likely for Scarf to be scum with MMR.

MMR voted unwnd's slot dangerously close to lethal, so MMR less likely scum with unwnd.

Which leaves the possible MMR scumbuddies as {furtiveglance, Firebringer, Toogeloo},
And the current other team as some combination of,
{Radical Rat, Scarfmanship, unwnd, the not-MMR-buddy in furtive/Toogeloo/Firebringer}.

furtiveglance pushed Scarfmanship when there was a risk of Scarfmanship being lethal, so less likely scum together.
furtiveglance pushed Radical Rat to L-1, so not scum with them.
Scarfmanship similarly so (identical link).

Which leads to furtive only being possible scum with Firebringer/Toogeloo/unwnd/MMR.

MMR + 2/3 of {Firebringer, Toogeloo, furtiveglance} on a team;
furtiveglance + 2/3 of {MMR, Firebringer, Toogeloo, unwnd} on a team.

Opposite team has 3 of
{Radical Rat, Scarfmanship, Firebringer/Toogeloo}.

I'm losing a lot of steam here, I think I can narrow it down better.

But loosely speaking, surface-level, I'd guess
{MMR, furtiveglance, Firebringer/Toogeloo};
{unwnd, Radical Rat-OR-Scarfmanship, Firebringer-or-Toogeloo}.

This surface-level analysis actually says there's one town in RR/Scarfmanship, and one team mostly known.
But like--I'm too tired to continue fact-checking (is 5:30, this wasn't meant to be a post where I dived the scumteams), so like. I might be missing combos, might be missing answers, etc. I'll figure it out later.

This is so bad it has to be scum, especially the first bit. It's not realistic compared to how town think, even town mastina.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:

I'll wait to see how the rest of the votes fall.

[Scarfmanship]

But you are literally one of the people we need reads on

[MathBlade]

What motivation does scum Loyal claim a failed action?

Well scum wouldn't actually be Loyal, but ultimately, it's very simple:

MMR is claiming a Loyal investigation on PPF which failed.
This is a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.

If it is taken to be a claim of a guilty, though, then that means there is basically a guaranteed scum in MMR and PPF.

Past Present Future is never scum here, ever. EVER ever.

Ergo, if there is a scum in the two, it is MMR.

The "why they did it" doesn't need to be something we know--they did it.

MMR claimed a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.
This happened, period.

There are many possible motivations behind it.

I have my

guesses

.
MMR felt boxed in;
MMR thought they could get away with it due to it being a soft-guilty and not eat a death afterwards from "oh well, guess we were roleblocked";
MMR genuinely believes PPF is scum for some reason but is wrong, and believes that an elimination on PPF will have no consequences since fakeclaiming a guilty on opposite scum still gets an opposite scum dead;
MMR knows PPF to be town, but has a role-related reason for wanting to eliminate PPF this day phase (notably, say the same thing which gave scum incentive to push MathBlade/Dingle Dangle Scarecrow yesterday).

But none of those I can really know.

What I do know is that Past Present Future cannot be scum, and therefore, MMR cannot have a real guilty on them.

And analyzing the claim and target and handling of it gives overwhelming reasons for MMR to be scum, with literally the

only

reason for MMR to be town being "scum wouldn't do this"--that's literally it.

Unless you wanna tell me something about MMR that isn't "scum wouldn't do this", that's the legit only reason they have to be town.
Their role itself looks like a scumclaim;
Their handling of it looks like a scumclaim;
Their target selection looks like a scumclaim;
Everything they are doing, looks like scum.

At some point, "scum wouldn't do this" becomes overwhelmed by the mountain of evidence demonstrating that, well. They did.

There is completely so much I disagree with here.

Can’t post at work.

People waiting on me do shit.

[Yume]

What motivation does scum Loyal claim a failed action?

Well scum wouldn't actually be Loyal, but ultimately, it's very simple:

MMR is claiming a Loyal investigation on PPF which failed.
This is a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.

If it is taken to be a claim of a guilty, though, then that means there is basically a guaranteed scum in MMR and PPF.

Past Present Future is never scum here, ever. EVER ever.

Ergo, if there is a scum in the two, it is MMR.

The "why they did it" doesn't need to be something we know--they did it.

MMR claimed a noncommittal soft-guilty that they did not breadcrumb and did not attempt to turn into a hard guilty and did not attempt to ask if they were blocked prior to claiming.
This happened, period.

There are many possible motivations behind it.

I have my

guesses

.
MMR felt boxed in;
MMR thought they could get away with it due to it being a soft-guilty and not eat a death afterwards from "oh well, guess we were roleblocked";
MMR genuinely believes PPF is scum for some reason but is wrong, and believes that an elimination on PPF will have no consequences since fakeclaiming a guilty on opposite scum still gets an opposite scum dead;
MMR knows PPF to be town, but has a role-related reason for wanting to eliminate PPF this day phase (notably, say the same thing which gave scum incentive to push MathBlade/Dingle Dangle Scarecrow yesterday).

But none of those I can really know.

What I do know is that Past Present Future cannot be scum, and therefore, MMR cannot have a real guilty on them.

And analyzing the claim and target and handling of it gives overwhelming reasons for MMR to be scum, with literally the

only

reason for MMR to be town being "scum wouldn't do this"--that's literally it.

Unless you wanna tell me something about MMR that isn't "scum wouldn't do this", that's the legit only reason they have to be town.
Their role itself looks like a scumclaim;
Their handling of it looks like a scumclaim;
Their target selection looks like a scumclaim;
Everything they are doing, looks like scum.

At some point, "scum wouldn't do this" becomes overwhelmed by the mountain of evidence demonstrating that, well. They did.

There is completely so much I disagree with here.

Can’t post at work.

People waiting on me do shit.

She may be wrong, but she is still town, so go back to lurking.

[Scarfmanship]

If you really don't care which of the two you want to eliminate, why are you still on PPF and equaling the wagons, rather than MMR to tip the wagons in one direction?

'cause I think PPF is solar and solar acts tonight, now because interacting with you and PPF is the pinnacle of unproductive content, i take this question and do an uno reverse card onto unwnd, in which i ask him why he is voting mastina and not ppf (but i ask it in a more respectful way). also @mastina idgaf about meta, i haven't played on this site in something like 6 years.

Tl;Dr I don't think that PPF should be vigged over mastina.
-Rubella

OK then where's your mastina vote? do you have some weird cult-related incentive to die today?

[Scarfmanship]

Actually I did some really interesting analysis that I will post later because if i post it now people won't fall for the trap. I'm vote parked on PPF for the rest of the day unless we run out of time at deadline.

Shame on ydrasse for being too scared to even ironically place a vote while making a post about mario kart. Town won't fall for the trap. Mafia will. Place votes if you're town. Or if you think you're smarter than me.

My leading theory is: Mastina town, MMR lunar, PPF solar. That's all I need to say.