Mafiascum.net

okay, i'm feeling a bit calmer today, so i'll go over my problems yesterday.

i had a problem with harley's read of "guiltylion said my pair has scum in it therefore he's scum" because it showed no critical thinking behind it whatsoever. if here was some behind it, i don't know, but literally all i saw was another "someone said i'm scum therefore they must die". no questioning why someone thought that, no questioning whether it would make sense for town!them to think that, just pure omgus. whether it really was that, i don't know, and 3689 makes me think there's more to it, so.

In post 3659, RH9 wrote:

In post 3658, Datisi wrote:are you gonna answer about your gth scumreads or are you just gonna post useless filler?

If you want, I could put GL as a scumlean for making me want to cry. (And making Norwee give up.)

In post 3660, RH9 wrote: Also this is for what seems like an agenda of breaking people down, making them want to lose their will to live, and what marcistar described as making a case 'built up on something' that is 'easily explanable'.
To me, it seems like GL saw the traction on people and fueled the flames. I have never felt like crying while playing a Mafia game until wasting two days of my life was considered 'fake'.

the problem with these posts are that they are making a huge deal out of something that really wasn't it. like, someone calling another person's posts "fake" is about one of the insults in mafia, and i found it really REALLY hard to believe that someone who also claimed to have experience with mafia elsewhere (not sure if it was mentioned in this game, but i think i saw rh9 say he's played mafia on other sites) would seriously be brought to tears by someone calling his post fake. *and* i did not see him act in any toxic way towards norwee. so those accusations also felt extremely over the top. and the fact that he was actually voting guiltylion over it really felt to me like scum who has no clue what to vote someone over so they picked something ridiculous like this. because no, i don't think someone could get that offended over guiltylion this game.

now, the reason why i didn't wanna say this last night is because i am not a fan of telling someone that their emotions aren't real, because if i'm wrong, i look like a huge asshole. which is why i utterly despise when ate is used in mafia, because i fear i will look like a bad person simply because i am trying to play to my wincon. so i decided to say nothing and just head to bed since it was 1am for me at the time anyway.

In post 3666, RH9 wrote:Datisi, my world is shattered beyond any kind of repair. I voted GL. I need you to give me a case to convince everybody that everything GL has done can only be done by Town!GL and scum!GL has no chance of doing it.

other than being more emotional stuff that i did not believe, this pissed me off because it implied that i'm supposed to be having this rock-solid towncase on guiltylion, and that not only do i have to convince him, i have to convince everybody, and it was written in such over the top way i really made me think that rh9 was scum just taking the piss out of the whole thing, and i wasn't able to call him out on it because i thought i would get called a bully because "how dare you say his emotions are manipulative!"

so yeah, that made me really upset last night.

In post 3824, Taly wrote:

In post 3823, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:The one thing I will say is that I find the universal townreads on me odd

I'm stronger at scum than a lot of people give me credit for anymore

I think it's a read people are sheeping me on for better or for worse.

Do you think I'm a pocket target this game?

In post 3826, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:

In post 3824, Taly wrote:

In post 3823, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:The one thing I will say is that I find the universal townreads on me odd

I'm stronger at scum than a lot of people give me credit for anymore

I think it's a read people are sheeping me on for better or for worse.

Do you think I'm a pocket target this game?

Likely, or a scapegoat for endgame paranoia.

In post 3827, Blood Puppets wrote:

In post 3826, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:

In post 3824, Taly wrote:

In post 3823, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:The one thing I will say is that I find the universal townreads on me odd

I'm stronger at scum than a lot of people give me credit for anymore

I think it's a read people are sheeping me on for better or for worse.

Do you think I'm a pocket target this game?

Likely, or a scapegoat for endgame paranoia.

I'm going to jump into a lake.

I'm thinking the same.

It's worth looking into

Want that to be our project Taly?

Collating a list of people's reads on both me and RH9

In post 3693, Titus wrote:Datisi did you ever respond to my GL thoughts? If so, I missed it.

you mean 2863? i saw it, i don't think i have anything to respond to it. i agree with his intro being weird. i think attacks on lld were very much called for considering she picked a post at random, ignored the context around it, and pretended to lockscum him for it. iirc, he's had links in those posts that i liked shortly before i proposed to him, and as he said, was that game on d8?

overall, the only thing i buy as scum!indicative is the intro, and like, we're on page 150.

Taly who do u think is sheeping ur Alyssa read

In post 3735, Something_Smart wrote:At first blush it didn't really move the needle for me... like I can see everything he says and how it could be true, but it doesn't seem like something that would be hard to fake either.

it is very much true that my progression on guiltylion this game, i.e. going from thinking he's a bit scummy to proposing to him, is not something that would be terribly difficult for scum!me to fake. but i point you back to my 3620 and your 3634 - what does scumtisi achieve with this? go against the consensus to propose to a controversial slot, do so in a confusing manner, and actively lower my odds of being in an endgame pair *due to my partner* because... funsies? wifom?

like, i know i said scum!me would want to win against town!gl while dancing with him, but i don't think i'd actively be jeopardizing my wincon for it.

In post 3763, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:if one of my stronger townreads has anything to request from me, I will respond

some help on reading rh9 would be nice. and your take on my 3825 i guess. he saying anything interesting in the pt?

In post 3770, RH9 wrote:To be fair, during my break, I've decided that GL's actions aren't AI and I'll probably unvote him and put him to a nullread.
UNVOTE: GuiltyLion

this is also very weird. you also had some problems with the way he was treating norwee - and it wasn't just "gl killing norwee's will to live", it was you actually poking holes in his case. i don't think that was ever addressed? is that not important?

In post 3814, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Shiro - Harley Quinn [2] - Andante, Firebringer

fire, did your thoughts change in any way since you made this vote? what do you think about the pairing now?

In post 3804, Something_Smart wrote:No pressing ones. It's late and I'll look at them more in depth tomorrow.

Honestly my response to those pages is just a blank stare.

In post 3821, Datisi wrote:maybe i shouldn't be considering your slot in isolation since you're tied to s_s now. but the shift from "we need to murder galron immediately" to "sike" was not unnoticed.

My impression is that "we need to murder galron immediately" was never a widespread sentiment and it was just a couple of people supporting it and nobody really opposing it?

I believe I brought this up before, but people were talking about us getting speedwagoned and then we got, like, one vote after first dance started. (This in spite of the fact that Galron forced me to accept without waiting to hear from Mala which was an objectively anti-town thing to do.) I guess I should probably go back and look at who was contributing to this mindset and why, but that seems better done after we have some flips.

In post 3823, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:The one thing I will say is that I find the universal townreads on me odd

Unjustified, maybe, but it doesn't seem odd to me. I definitely have a bias toward townreading strong town players just because it's advantageous to keep them alive longer.

In post 3833, Datisi wrote:what does scumtisi achieve with this? go against the consensus to propose to a controversial slot, do so in a confusing manner, and actively lower my odds of being in an endgame pair *due to my partner* because... funsies? wifom?

like, i know i said scum!me would want to win against town!gl while dancing with him, but i don't think i'd actively be jeopardizing my wincon for it.

I feel like you're underselling the importance of having a partner you can pocket as scum. The number one priority is getting a partner who won't walk out on you; that is the lens I was looking through when analyzing pair interactions. I think that scum-you would be reasonably confident in your ability to pocket town-GL, given the course of the game up to that point.

Who are other slots that you think you would have angled to pair with instead as scum?

Also, what's your PT like?

In post 3840, Something_Smart wrote:Who are other slots that you think you would have angled to pair with instead as scum?

Also, what's your PT like?

no clue, considering i didn't spend too much time thinking about it. and it would depend who my partners were. i can try to go back and look if you think it would be useful for you.

we're halfway through page 5, vast majority of it is solving, except for a short conversation about astronomy.

astrology*, not astronomy

In post 3841, Datisi wrote:no clue, considering i didn't spend too much time thinking about it. and it would depend who my partners were. i can try to go back and look if you think it would be useful for you.

Up to you, but it seems to be an important part of your argument. "Why would I pair with GL as scum?" "well who you pair with as scum?" "*shrug*"

In post 3809, Galron wrote:

In post 3294, Save The Dragons wrote:my activity is (almost) never AI

Self-meta has no influence on me, and I don't understand why people use it so often. You could be lying, but maybe you aren't. You could also be changing playstyle, or you may not. I don't know. I don't trust self-meta. The fact is that you have been more active and jovial this game than I've seen you recently (I don't think I had played with you prior to October though). That change in playstyle jumps off the page at me.

In post 3310, Save The Dragons wrote:i didn't say i sr him?

In post 3311, Save The Dragons wrote:sometimes i just say things

In post 3314, Save The Dragons wrote:

In post 3312, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 3309, Shiro wrote:Eh depends on how you view it.

What the hell is that supposed to mean

the solving was the friends we made along the way

This exchange is bizarre. Who were you referring to that you didn't say you scumread? And what does the rest of it mean? Sometimes you just say things that are important, not important, nothing to do with anything, what? Although I do appreciate the paraphrase, what does the solving was the friends we made along the way for?

people were saying "you can't scumread RH9 for having no scumreads" and I wanted to clarify I never said I scumread him for having no scum reads. Sometimes I just say things to try and solve people because i want to see their responses.

the friends we made along the way is a meme i'm joking that shiro's comment about solving is bizarre. i don't know it makes sense in my head

i mean, not really, considering that part is nai at worst and i feel like i am townie in plenty other ways so - how much does my alignment hinge on this for you?

if i went back to check, i might have figured out if there was someone strategically better for me to pair with as scum, maybe there wouldn't have been, i don't know right now because i was not really looking

pedit: @s_s

In post 3841, Datisi wrote:

In post 3840, Something_Smart wrote:Who are other slots that you think you would have angled to pair with instead as scum?

Also, what's your PT like?

no clue, considering i didn't spend too much time thinking about it. and it would depend who my partners were. i can try to go back and look if you think it would be useful for you.

we're halfway through page 5, vast majority of it is solving, except for a short conversation about astronomy.

how tf-

In post 3830, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Want that to be our project Taly?

Collating a list of people's reads on both me and RH9

Yes

In post 3832, Firebringer wrote:Taly who do u think is sheeping ur Alyssa read

I'll include that to my list of projects and things to reply to lol

I'm currently traveling today

IE, I can't tell just off reading the thread for the first time so

In post 3822, Galron wrote:I know when the tide turned against me initially was when I tried to steal LLD from marci and said something about wanting LLD to endgame. My stock crashed at that point for whatever reason. I'm usually not really aware of things like that, but it was a universal thing, and I couldn't figure it out. Why there's possibly a shift back upwards i don't know.

maybe it's because saying you wanted LLD to endgame was a highly implausible sentiment at the time and it felt like you had an agenda in proposing and claiming that idea?? like I've been saying this to you repeatedly

it makes a lot more sense to me if you were unsure of / scumreading LLD and you wanted to bait her into accepting so you could leave if you determined her to be scum, once you said that it explained what you were doing, but how are you not connecting the dots that doing that reaction testing/gambity shit is going to come across as not genuine?