Let this be a lesson as we approach smaller majorities. It's not a good idea to throw a few votes down, prior to organising the night actions.
We should determine who is to be lynched, without votes (if possible, and I think it will be possible most of the time) and then organise and then votes.
The combination of players that feel they can just pop in with a two line (if that!) post and vote for somebody, and things like suicidal and the ability to self vote means we could be fucked with night actions very easily.
If BS had waited for one more vote before self voting and if she had suicidal, we'd have been screwed.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:06 am
by xvart
lulz. UNVOTE:
Andy - I was joking, but I appreciate your sentiment.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:43 am
by Feysal
Seacore #3845 wrote:Baby Spice is currently on 9 votes. That's L-2. If she's suicidal, that's L-1.
According to the last vote count, 10 votes secure a lynch. If Baby Spice is suicidal, that was a self-hammer. In case it was not...
Unvote: Baby Spice
...and in case it was, we need to start planning
fast
. We need grave robbers for Wraith and Baby Spice. I think we can forget about trying to block anyone suspicious tonight. Baby Spice pretty much confirmed herself cult with her self-vote, and so she probably has no equipment, meaning it would be impossible to tell whether she was double-robbed. I would suggest xvart rob both graves tonight, and do it alone. This is because he is the only player with any chance of winning as murderer, and blocking him for one night should make that impossible, so we can all safely forget about murderers in the future. He is also confirmed investigator, so we don't need to pair him with anyone.
Other than that, there is the stalk plan. This is what Benmage last posted about that:
Those who need to die:
Andrius (Potential lynch)
Nico (Potential lynch)
Kunkstar
Plum
AV
Triglav
Trilobite
TNM (Most likely lynched if he can’t kill me)
Me (ONLY TO BE STALKED BY TNM)
The NachovsFeysal mess wines my brain to mush. I don’t know if I want them to be stalkers or killed lol. Sure Nacho’s slot claimed the rezz first… But as cult knowing the failed kill that could be an easy gamble, both to excuse blood, an insanity and make Feysal look worse. Or I could be overthinking and Feysal is lying… Or both could be telling the truth… AHHHHH… The triglav commune on Nacho’s slot adds to the brain headache. I'm fairly convinced theres scum in one of them.
ROB GRAVE PLAN:
Wraith: Benmage, Triglav
Baby Spice: Benmage, Triglav
Any objections to this list of stalkers and targets?
Since there is no guarantee hitogoroshi will be back in time, I'll get working on a new guide.
I'm caught up on the thread, but have nothing I'd need to urgently comment on. Perhaps after night actions have been sorted out, if there is time.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:57 am
by xvart
Benmage, ISO 358 wrote:Alright, damnit I'll go back to double rob graving tonight...We'll simply make TNM a stalker/killer, moreover I will become open fodder on the to be killed list.
The last permutation of the Grave Rob plan. The insanity guide from yesterday can be transferred forward. What else is there?
[area=CD6][b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?[/b]
[b]Are you bloody?[/b]
[b]Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[b]Vote: [Self] [/b] <--- Replace this with your username!
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote[/b][/area]
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:04 am
by VP Baltar
I actually agree with Feysal about xvart stalking over Benmage. I think that's the superior grave rob plan.
The stalkee list is semi-ridiculous for some of the names on there who are prob-town, but I guess I shouldn't say anything on that for WIFOM purposes.
Acceptable insanities stand, as there are more than enough on there for anyone with legit insanities at this point. I think that should cover anything.
My main advice is that people carefully check their night actions tonight and don't be stupid. Not having a laid out guide isn't an excuse for making dumb actions, as we're several days into this game at this point and you should have the hang of it by now.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:05 am
by VP Baltar
EBWOP: I agree with Feysal about xvart GRAVEROBBING
Sorry about that.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:12 am
by Feysal
For starters, here are the relevant lists. I think there are no mistakes, but if you find anything wrong, do point it out.
Comments and corrections please, if Baby Spice hammered herself we're in a bit of a rush. As of late, vote counts have been posted every two days or so, but we can't count on having time until tomorrow.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:25 am
by AurorusVox
Sounds good (Y)
I know Percy-player is V/LA til 2nd Jan. Presumably it's the same for Percy-mod, so it's onto whenever Vi can get things posted.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:19 am
by Feysal
Checked back to see if I'd overlooked anything. Few replies:
Seacore #3749 wrote:I would love a ward, when the time comes. Since they gots no fetish of me no more.
Almost forgot about the passed fetishes. I guess Seacore, Benmage and VasudeVa will be safe tonight.
Nachomamma8 #3757 wrote:Is there a reason why Feysal and I don't just murder one another?
Bad idea. The advantage of stalking is that it confirms the stalker upon successful murder. In the worst case, if you and I are both town, we would murder each other, the cult would get two free kills, and no one would be confirmed.
xvart #3853 wrote:
Benmage, ISO 358 wrote:Alright, damnit I'll go back to double rob graving tonight... We'll simply make TNM a stalker/killer, moreover I will become open fodder on the to be killed list.
The last permutation of the Grave Rob plan. The insanity guide from yesterday can be transferred forward. What else is there?
Missed this earlier... I'd still prefer xvart to rob graves though, but I'll make those changes to the stalk plan.
Guide coming up in next post.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:26 am
by AurorusVox
Xvart makes the best grave robbing sense imo too.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:54 am
by Benmage
Feysal wrote:I would suggest xvart rob both graves tonight, and do it alone.
Absolutely not. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I hope to god Xvart does go murderer. The Cult are miles ahead of the town right now. I want the cult fearful of a potential murderer. I want the cult, who if they want to win, to have to deal with this potential murderer by NKing him.
Murderers are no longer the agenda of the town.
A few things to note. TNM is stalking/killing but doesn’t want to perform it on me because it’ll be easy ass wifom for scum to ward me…THAT SAID. I hope to fucking god one of you idiots who are town and maybe on the stalkee list, or are just floating around, stalk and kill me. KILLING ME is PROTOWN right now. other than my liability in quick lylo it’ll also confirm someone who may be questionable. Obviously I have marked so Resuscitate is a wasted action on me.
TL/DR STALK/KILL BENMAGE (we want cult to waste a ward on me, or we want you(stalker) to be confirmed town)
So, Yeah. I’m double rob graving tonight again to block any dust.
I say we have Plum double rob grave with me…But that’s open to suggestion.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:55 am
by Benmage
I'm gonna be real fucking pissed if not one person tomorrow tells me they were successful or not in stalking me.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:14 am
by Feysal
Welcome to the Investigator's Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,
ignorance of the law is no excuse
, so make sure you read it thoroughly! In particular,
pay special attention to the banned insanity list, and the listings for Ward and Stalk/Murder!
Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?
This is a terrible night to
Cower
or
Launder
(no one should be bloody). Both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!
This is a mediocre night to
Search
for equipment. It's better to use equipment rather than search for it, especially because rez kits might get lost by you turning bloody if you sit on them too long.
You should probably not
Ward
tonight. Almost every player has or could possibly have a fetish of themselves. Seacore and VasudeVa were passed their fetishes, so they are decent ward targets (Benmage would be too, but he is Marked, and put himself up to be stalked). If you do ward, it
CANNOT
be any of the stalk targets.
Warding any of the above players will be treated as a cult claim!
Do not take the
Rob Grave
option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, and it will most likely get you lynched, so don't do it!
This is an excellent night to
Resuscitate
. Every player (with the exception of Benmage, Seacore and VasudeVa) is potentially in danger. Also, you should not resuscitate anyone on the list of stalk targets. Here are the players potentially in danger not on that list.
Choose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their ritual kill. Remember too that the scum have access to the
Greater Ritual
, so don't worry about choosing a target because "someone else might pick them too". Stacking resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.
Investigate
is a useful choice. While launder resolves before investigation, murderers and cultbags would love to get away with not wasting an action on laundering. Punish them for it!
Do not choose
Stalk
or
Murder
, UNLESS you are a town approved stalker.
All of these players
must
stalk, and
must
choose a target from the list of stalk targets above.
This is a good night to use
Commune
. However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N4 communes:
Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?
Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are
forbidden
from taking N5:
Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim, UNLESS you were forced by number to pick a banned insanity (in which case you must pick Hallucination). This exemption only applies to people who are taking their
fifth or greater
insanity.
In addition, here are some insanities you are encouraged to take:
Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so
Twitchy
is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities - you have nothing to hide.
This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.
Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?
The final graverobbing targets are these.
Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?
[area=CD6]
[b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?[/b]
[b]Are you bloody? If so, why?[/b]
[b]Did you Stalk? If so, who, and was it successful?[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[b]Vote: [Self] [/b] <--- Replace this with your username!
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote[/b][/area]
Which will give you this:
Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.
A few notes. The "CD6" means "Claims Day 6", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The voting is to test for voting insanities - remember to replace [self] with your username as written. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:
Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.
Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.
Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:24 am
by AurorusVox
Wait, the Inv. Ref says only sanctioned stalkers stalk, but Ben said everyone should stalk him. Halp?
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:51 am
by Nachomamma8
Only TNM should be stalking him, I think.
Also, Plum/Ben are double grave-robbing.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:08 am
by Iecerint
I only have 1 insanity, unless I'm going crazy.
EDIT: HAHAHAHA GET IT?
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:10 am
by VP Baltar
Ben was saying from the stalkers list since TNM claims to not want to fail-stalk him. ONLY STALKERS SHOULD BE STALKING.
-__- Don't make this more difficult than it needs to be people.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:24 am
by Feysal
I added one more acceptable insanity into the list: Compulsion. It is unlikely you are going to get bloody anyway, and we have been laundering compulsively even without the insanity.
Benmage #3861 wrote:
Feysal #3852 wrote:I would suggest xvart rob both graves tonight, and do it alone.
Absolutely not. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I hope to god xvart does go murderer. The cult are miles ahead of the town right now. I want the cult fearful of a potential murderer. I want the cult, who if they want to win, to have to deal with this potential murderer by NKing him.
Murderers are no longer the agenda of the town.
I disagree on this. Town stalkers are quite enough for the cult to worry about, I'd imagine xvart would be a low priority for them. Rather, I expect the cult to leave him alive since he can no longer murder and stay town. Personally, I don't think we need to worry about xvart going murderer even now, and I would be highly suspicious of anyone who did, like Baby Spice focused on you. I would like to close the door for all murderer speculation, to keep it from becoming a distraction should xvart survive into endgame.
Benmage #3861 wrote:So, yeah. I'm double rob graving tonight again to block any dust.
I say we have Plum double rob grave with me… But that’s open to suggestion.
I'm not adamant on xvart being the grave robber, you could be the one as well. But, I don't think double grave robbing is at all useful today.
Consider this: Baby Spice is almost assuredly cult. Therefore, she probably has no equipment to rob. Therefore, it is impossible to tell whether her grave was double robbed. Therefore, it is impossible to tell whether Plum, or any other double robber, had robbed both graves and been blocked.
Consequently, we could end up giving Plum a convenient excuse for an insanity, from a grave rob she did not have to do. Not to mention she gains two insanities, taking her out of the range of most would-be communers who could otherwise detect whether she has unclaimed insanities already.
AurorusVox #3864 wrote:Wait, the Inv. Ref says only sanctioned stalkers stalk, but Ben said everyone should stalk him. Halp?
I copied that part from hitogoroshi's last guide. Already at the end of last day Benmage said something about potential stalk targets and how they might stalk someone in an effort to confirm themselves. Now Benmage seems to be offering himself for this purpose. It could be a good idea, though we could end up with even more overlapping stalks than with Baby Spice, and a load of WIFOM if Benmage was warded. I think I'd prefer to avoid too much overlap and have stalk targets choosing between Benmage and targets they consider suspicious, if they want to stalk anyone at all. If there is overlap, we can sort it out tomorrow.
Iecerint #3866 wrote:I only have 1 insanity, unless I'm going crazy.
If you stalk tonight, it will give you the second insanity before commune resolves. That's why it is there.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:43 am
by Iecerint
You are quite the mathematician. kk.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:04 pm
by Seacore
Crap, good work Seacore, I read the 11 in the deadline as 11 needed to lynch. We could be in twilight as we speak. shit.
Warding me would be fucking excellent.
I agree with no potential scum robbing, given that we might not be able to tell if they complied, it's not as useful.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:29 pm
by Nachomamma8
Stalk targets should commune, resuscitate, and ward I think.
We had overlap problems with 4 people, so let's not add 8 more now... >.>
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:36 pm
by hitogoroshi
Since there is no guarantee hitogoroshi will be back in time, I'll get working on a new guide.
I'm here, I'm here...just busy with holiday shenanigans. Thanks for taking over the duty. That being said, I like that you can find every reference by ISO-ing me, so I think I'll repost that after I give it a once-over for errors. If I change anything, I'll note it red so there's no confusion.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:54 pm
by hitogoroshi
Proposed changes to Feysals reference:
Benmage is the double-robber, changing the commune list accordingly.
Also, the big thing I wanted to do (was working on it already) is the definitive list of insanity thresholds. As we get more insane binomial banned/not banned insanities isn't quite so useful.
The number in brackets after the insanity is its
threshold
- you can take it as your X or greater insanity. So threshold 1 means you can take it whenever, threshold 4 means it's acceptable as insanity 4 or greater, etc. An X insanity is
strictly forbidden
and can never, ever be taken. If you have absolutely no insanities available at your threshold, you can continue moving up one threshold until one is available. Double check your work, because moving up a threshold when you did have an available insanity will be punishable by lynch. Remember, no matter what the situation,
the rule that you may never take an X insanity trumps all others.
I'd like some feedback on the numbers because I didn't work out any endgame scenarios, so maybe one voting insanity is better than another or whatever.
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:08 pm
by Feysal
hitogoroshi #3873 wrote:Proposed changes to Feysals reference:
Benmage is the double-robber, changing the commune list accordingly.
Fine. I'd have liked to definitively close the murderer issue, but I won't insist on xvart. I don't expect him to go for murderer anyway.
hitogoroshi #3873 wrote:Also, the big thing I wanted to do (was working on it already) is the definitive list of insanity thresholds. As we get more insane binomial banned/not banned insanities isn't quite so useful.
...
I'd like some feedback on the numbers because I didn't work out any endgame scenarios, so maybe one voting insanity is better than another or whatever.
I suggest that the list be organized according to the threshold, instead of the order in the rule post.
I see no reason why everyone should not take Twitchy first, so increased thresholds of other low-threshold insanities. Marked should definitely have a higher threshold - if several people started taking it, the cult could kill them all with the normal ritual without worrying about res kits. I think I would rather take Mutilation than Marked, in fact.
Distraction is actually not that bad in late game, where few people switch their votes. We could easily get around the limitation by simply not voting, possibly by using pseudovotes we can track ourselves. Denial, I think, has only one situation where town would want to take it: if you want to commune twice without your insanity count increasing in between. Since no one should commune anyway with that many insanities, it could be banned altogether.
You can also get around Paranoid, with some difficulty. Town should simply avoid voting anyone who has that insanity, unless the town has already decided, by discussion or pseudovotes, to lynch that player. Sadism, however, is the worst of them all, and should be the very last insanity you take. Or Denial... it could have the one use of delaying Sadism by one day. Perhaps Necrophilia could be allowed as well, rather than Sadism, as the tenth and final insanity. By that insanity count, being forced into grave robbing should not matter.
Also, let's not forget that Taboo can be taken several times for different equipment. (It can, right?)
