Mafiascum.net

In post 1691, Alisae wrote:

In post 879, humaneatingmonkey wrote:VOTE: NorwEE

Let's go.

In post 883, Isis wrote:you guys are lame
VOTE: Norwee

This is where it all starts.

In post 897, Cycle Men wrote:VOTE: humaneatingmonkey
im keeping this here for the day

Cycle Men votes Monkey and in return, Monkey OMGUS' Cycle Men.

In post 902, humaneatingmonkey wrote:VOTE: Cycle Men

Okay bro

In post 904, Isis wrote:VOTE: Cycle Men

In post 943, Alisae wrote:Like when you post and come with theories maybe turn on your brain a little bit, yeah?

pedit: My arguement against it is that it is stupid, not realistic, and excessive, and I am questioning if you are either scum or just bad.
and honestly
this makes me lean towards bad the more I think about it because this whole fucking take on me is just stupid unless you genuinely believe it.

Then I have a huge interaction with Clemency at the end of it, I come to a townread on Cycle Men.
I'm not quoting the whole interaction because it doesn't matter. What is relevant is that after an interaction, I am townreading Cycle Men and during this time, I am still trying to push Norwee

In post 947, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Alisae, why is Mr. Inorganic and Mr. Sheeps-a-lot town?

I'm still trying to push Norwee and monkey is not at all interested in it. He wants to bus Cycle Men as seen in his next post.

In post 961, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I want to be clear. I'm not finding Looker, GC, Elements, and NorwEE as hard to sort. I am sorting them as likely scum. But I can be very wrong, and I think a flipped Cycle Men will help me be more right.

The only reason I didn't have Cycle Men as my primary lynch option earlier was the lack of counterwagon during that period. However, I can see merit in Deimos' push against him. But now I see that the paranoia around it is outweighed by the uncertainty Cycle Men will bring me later in the game.

So Cycle Men it is.

In post 977, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Yes, Alisae, I can be on the NorwEE wagon. But I also want this Cycle Men wagon to happen.

Now, I feel like Monkey made the decision to bus Cycle Men over Norwee because its just easier to bus the weaker player on your team.

However after this post, I tell him to vote Norwee here

In post 982, Alisae wrote:

In post 977, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Yes, Alisae, I can be on the NorwEE wagon. But I also want this Cycle Men wagon to happen.

vote
norwee

and at these next posts, he flat out just doesn't care about my Norwee scumread or acknowledge this post.

In post 985, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Okay I can buy that thank you for that

In post 987, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Although isn't sheeping exactly like voting based on trusting that the person you're following is town?

In post 1002, Cycle Men wrote:

In post 994, Alisae wrote:you know what
i hate you norwee (not actually just ur making this frustrating lmao)
i am going to admit
that i probably do not know how you play this game at all
i don't think i agree with it but this is giving me flashbacks to the normal where I had issues reading you and you reacted similarly
and now there is this seed of doubt that was planted

I think its Isis if ur town
VOTE: Isis

In post 997, Elements wrote:if you do that it's just going to be an inevitable cycle men lynch. Everyone wants a lynch and cycle men has the most so the people on it are most likely just gonna leave their votes there adn wait for everyone to panic move onto him.
I'm happy for a cycle or human lynch but i'd prefer the latter
VOTE: human

In post 999, Elements wrote:scrap that, human is pretty locktown for me now
VOTE: cycle

?????? how does this happen in a human brain
VOTE: elements

This is where Cycle Men decides he wants to push Elements and because I was scumreading Elements for his vote movements, I join him here

In post 1012, Alisae wrote:unless we gonna flashwagon Elements
Im down for that

In post 1036, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I'm evaluating whether or not Elements is town for the solve that no one has really took me up on the wagon I made around him, or scumread him because by his own admission he's been lynchable and yet no one other than me has really pushed him.

In post 1040, humaneatingmonkey wrote:okay i like Elements now

Now look what's happening.
I am pushing a cw on town!Elements while scum!Cycle is still being wagoned.
The best play that monkey could make here is to continue to push Cycle.
This is the best play for monkey because its at this point that the Cycle Men flip makes me look bad since we're both trying to mislynch town!Elements together. If he continues to push Cycle Men here, he can use the cred he got from the Cycle Men lynch as well as the fact that the Cycle Men flip makes me look terrible to try to lynch me after he lynches Cycle Men.
Lynching town!Elements here doesn't yield the same result. It doesn't boost his chances of winning aside from the fact that they need 1 less mislynch.

Lynching Cycle Men over town!Elements here boosts his chance to win the game because now he can use that flip to try to discredit me and lynch me.

In post 1052, humaneatingmonkey wrote:

In post 1043, Alisae wrote:there is no town motivations in your actions.
town does not play this way.

this isn't really true

So now you have him defending Elements and getting me to lynch Cycle Men in these next posts.

In post 1088, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ali, why is Cycle Men town? You missed my question.

In post 1118, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Cycle Men > NorwEE

Let's just get the flips, man.

This post was made after monkey interact with Cycle Men where he still maintains a scumread on Cycle Men.
When scum make the decision to bus, they will not get off track and they will not hop off. They want the bus to go through and they will do everything in their power to make it go through.
The rest of these posts are just him trying to push Cycle Men through

In post 1142, humaneatingmonkey wrote:no i recognize what you've done and i truly thank you for that. unfortunately i'm reading you as scum

In post 1167, humaneatingmonkey wrote:nah. i don't buy that. i think town!you would recognize that it's very easy to scum to hammer you there and get away with it.

i think the more reasonable explanation is you're not worried about scum, because you're scum.

In post 1190, humaneatingmonkey wrote:what do you think about my vote on cycle men? why do you like the elements wagon better than cycle men?

In post 1223, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Don't you guys find it weird that like days ago, the L-1 wagon who no one hammered, is now very hard to push in deadline? Clemency is scum. Flip this slot.

Okay so whats the takeaway.

The takeaway is
- Elements is likely town based on Cycle Men pushing them and if Monkey flips scum, Monkey defending them. Its just the best position to take here.
- Monkey made the conscious decision to bus Cycle Men and is just doing the best they can to push the bus through. from 902 till lynch, he never gives another lynch the consideration or the light of day.
- Also, he made the decision to bus Cycle Men because he did not want to vote Norwee for whatever reason. Like, after 902, he doesn't even consider the lynch.

---

Now the rest of this post is going to be dedicated to Norwee scum and mostly talking about my interactions with him today.

In post 1591, Alisae wrote:

In post 1588, humaneatingmonkey wrote:anyone out there think alisae will flip town?

In post 1589, NorwegianboyEE wrote:

In post 1585, Alisae wrote:Norwee why are you voting me

Because scum was bussing Cycle Men and you look suspicious.

Why do I look suspicious

—

In post 1590, NorwegianboyEE wrote:

In post 965, Alisae wrote:okay but Cycle Men is town so just lynch Norwee with me, yeah?

I mean, this is the kind of shit all over your ISO. And then you switch over to Cycle Men when he's close to getting lynch and hammer for the towncred.

I did not lynch and hammer for towncred.
I lynched and hammered because in mafia games, there is a deadline, and using a no lynch on day 1 is not optimal.

If you are associating me with Cycle Men, why are you only reading my ISO by itself.
Why are you not taking into consideration Cycle Men’s posts?

In this post, I want Norwee to elaborate on his read on me because he's not really explaining himself and just saying general statements to just hide behind.
I also notice that he is only making comments about my ISO, and he is using associations to scumread me here.
The issue with that is, he is only considering half of the story. When you look at associations, you also have to consider the person who flipped scum as well.
And Norwee isn't doing that.

In post 1598, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Also consider that Cycle Men was mostly afk and doing fuckall at the beginning. So it was a obvious teammate to buss since he really didn't up his game until he was put into L-1.

In post 1599, Alisae wrote:So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

Norwee is talking about how he was doing fuckall nothing but before I came around to townreading him, I hardly even talk about him. And I'm certainly not pushing Cycle Men and saying "CYCLE MEN IS DOING FUCK ALL NOTHING HE NEEDS TO DIE" and this is what Norwee is trying to describe me doing.
So I ask him to talk about why I didn't bus him earlier in the game to see what he would come up with.
If he's town here, he would look at my ISO and realize that what he's saying doesn't make sense.
Instead he writes 1601 and I respond to it.

In post 1603, Alisae wrote:

In post 1601, NorwegianboyEE wrote:

In post 1599, Alisae wrote:So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

I think the late joiners on the wagon are more likely to be scum bussing. That includes you. You were defending him at first, before switching to voting him with a slightly awkward hammer when he was L-1. That's not a good enough reason to suspect you? You seem to be shading the people voting you more than you are actually trying to solve atm.

It’s not a good enough reason Norwee, and let me tell you why.
When I started to townread him was when he started playing the game.
You are taking this moment and this particular moment only and trying to suggest that I was defending my scumbuddy and decided to take an awkward hammer when he was at L-1.

Thats not a good enough reason because you are only evaluating that particular moment and nothing else.
You are not evaluating my read on him before he wanted to play the game, only after.
Also you are not taking into consideration that if scum decides “Hey, I wasn’t doing much earlier, but now I am invested into the game and actually want to play it,” that since they’re starting to play the game and take it seriously, that they CAN trick town into townreading them.

In the post I'm responding to, he basically doubles down on his theory and says that "WELL, THE LATE JOINERS ARE LIKELY TO BE BUSSING AND THAT MEANS YOU" and just doubling down on the fact I defended him and even tries to make the hammer just sound bad, completely leaving out the circumstances around the hammer (It was end of day and its better to lynch Day 1 then not lynch).

In this point, I am basically trying to describe how unnatural this take actually is.
He is also not taking into consideration that it is possible for me to just be wrong on Cycle Men.

In post 1606, Alisae wrote:

In post 1604, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

When did I scumread him?

In post 1607, Alisae wrote:Quote the posts Norwee

in 1606 he says at some point I scumread Cycle Men after I townread him.
I tell him to quote the posts in which I actually scumread him because the truth is
I don't even scumread him
and he can't
instead he just doubles down on the read

In post 1613, NorwegianboyEE wrote:

In post 1606, Alisae wrote:

In post 1604, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

When did I scumread him?

In post 1607, Alisae wrote:Quote the posts Norwee

Alright, call it fence-sitting. Call it whatever, you went from TR on Clemency, to changing your stance a lot, to deciding to TR him again and saying "he will probably flip town" after the hammer. Which is a typical scum way of appearing ignorant of the flips.

At this point, I have asked him so many questions that are aiming to try to show Norwee that his take on the events that happened in the game are just flat out wrong and I keep on asking him questions that challenge his views, but instead of re-evaluating and realizing that maybe he's fucking wrong, he comes to this conclusion.

He doesn't want to re-consider his point here because he as scum, sees me as lynchable and wants to keep on pushing it. He just changing his stance to suit his narative. The read itself is unnatural and Norwee is likely just scum trying to push someone he views as lynchable.