[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok the jesters win separately, but are lovers.

What motivation is there to use the lovers chat?

For fun?

[Junpei]

Ok the jesters win separately, but are lovers.

What motivation is there to use the lovers chat?

For fun?

So in other words it'll get no use. I do not see how that setup is an improvement from the other setup.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok the jesters win separately, but are lovers.

What motivation is there to use the lovers chat?

For fun?

So in other words it'll get no use. I do not see how that setup is an improvement from the other setup.

It's not broken...

[Junpei]

Ok the jesters win separately, but are lovers.

What motivation is there to use the lovers chat?

For fun?

So in other words it'll get no use. I do not see how that setup is an improvement from the other setup.

It's not broken...

How is mine broken?

[drmyshottyizsik]

.........

[Junpei]

.........

Empking's scenario doesn't make sense to me. It relies on mafia and fool misguessing each other.

[Hoopla]

New breaking strategy for Junpei's setup;

Town elects to no-lynch during the day and use the Vigilante as the lynching mechanic, with the town voting on who the vig should kill. This produces the effect of it being a normal 2:13 setup, which strongly favours the town. Once a fool has been vigged/mafia killed, the town can now lynch on those days they can't lose. There is a chance the vig can die before one of the fools, but it's only a 1/3 chance - less if you include the possibility of a vig and a fool dying on the same night. The chances for the vig dying first outright is low enough to make it a viable strategy in most games, and well worth trying.

[Junpei]

New breaking strategy for Junpei's setup;

Town elects to no-lynch during the day and use the Vigilante as the lynching mechanic, with the town voting on who the vig should kill. This produces the effect of it being a normal 2:13 setup, which strongly favours the town. Once a fool has been vigged/mafia killed, the town can now lynch on those days they can't lose. There is a chance the vig can die before one of the fools, but it's only a 1/3 chance - less if you include the possibility of a vig and a fool dying on the same night. The chances for the vig dying first outright is low enough to make it a viable strategy in most games, and well worth trying.

Good point, I'll have to sleep on that though as I'm getting tired.

[Empking]

.........

Empking's scenario doesn't make sense to me. It relies on mafia and fool misguessing each other.

No.

[BBmolla]

- Bad Politics -

- 12 players -
1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Mafia Impeacher(Chooses a player, if that player is Governor the next day, he will not be allowed to overturn the lynch.)
1 Mafia Goon
8 Townies
1 Pollmaster(Is informed on who voted who during the night, and who the Governor is.)

Starts with a kill-less N0.
On this N0, all players elect a player to be the "Governor". The player who is elected is not informed they were elected till the end of D1.

Day proceeds as usual, until the lynch.
The Governor is informed that he was elected and can choose to lynch any player who has at least 1 vote on them. He must make this decision publicly.

After that, the player is no longer the Governor and gets his old role back. Votes occur each night by all players including mafia.

Impeacher is essentially a Governor-only-role-blocker, and Pollmaster is essentially a Vote-Tracker, so I don't think the roles are

too

un-normal. I tried to give the mafia a lot of power considering the town pretty much has total control over the lynch unless they accidentally govern mafia. Thoughts?

Can I get some thoughts on this?

[Empking]

- Bad Politics -

- 12 players -
1 Vengeful Mafia
1 Mafia Impeacher(Chooses a player, if that player is Governor the next day, he will not be allowed to overturn the lynch.)
1 Mafia Goon
8 Townies
1 Pollmaster(Is informed on who voted who during the night, and who the Governor is.)

Starts with a kill-less N0.
On this N0, all players elect a player to be the "Governor". The player who is elected is not informed they were elected till the end of D1.

Day proceeds as usual, until the lynch.
The Governor is informed that he was elected and can choose to lynch any player who has at least 1 vote on them. He must make this decision publicly.

After that, the player is no longer the Governor and gets his old role back. Votes occur each night by all players including mafia.

Impeacher is essentially a Governor-only-role-blocker, and Pollmaster is essentially a Vote-Tracker, so I don't think the roles are

too

un-normal. I tried to give the mafia a lot of power considering the town pretty much has total control over the lynch unless they accidentally govern mafia. Thoughts?

Can I get some thoughts on this?

Town are too weak.

[Quilford]

Cozy Mafia

1 Mafia Bully (forces someone to hide during the night, [cannot use ability on self?])
6 Vanilla Townies

Each day three things are voted upon:
- who receives an (publicly-announced) ability
- who to lynch

Each night the Goon can select someone (NB: cannot be the person who received an ability on the day prior) to kill.

Good idea or no? Need to discuss what abilities are up for offer.

Ump-bay?

[Junpei]

Hoopla, I have an idea. What if we added a town role like bomb or something that would be very bad for town if hit by vigilante? Maybe there's a better role than bomb to use, but if there is reason to not want to shoot randomly at night. Something that would be better off being lynched. I'll browse the wiki a bit but if you guys know any odd roles that fit this quota and think this would work lemme know.

[Hoopla]

Then that role ought to claim D1 so the vig avoids it.

[Junpei]

Yeah, that's true. What if we had a bomb and 1 other unfavorable role to target at night? Then it may be that we have the two roles claim "I am bomb/[insert other role here]!"and if there are more than 2 than we know 1 is fool/mafia. But then you avoid those altogether. But if one were something mafia DID want to kill, but not town... well that'd keep them in their anonymous 1 of 2 role claim state. So I don't think that'd solve the problem.

What if we made that vig even night? No that would just gimp the fool that was on the day before the vigs' nights.

Nexus or

Beloved Princess

might have a place in this setup, are all roles allowed in Open setups? This will require some thought.

Maybe a 3 mason group to start with 1 VT 1 mafia and 1 of (even day, odd day fool, random townie)

?

This is an interesting problem...

[Empking]

Cozy Mafia

1 Mafia Bully (forces someone to hide during the night, [cannot use ability on self?])
6 Vanilla Townies

Each day three things are voted upon:
- who receives an (publicly-announced) ability
- who to lynch

Each night the Goon can select someone (NB: cannot be the person who received an ability on the day prior) to kill.

Good idea or no? Need to discuss what abilities are up for offer.

Ump-bay?

What goon?

[Quilford]

Whoops. I meant the Bully.

--

Cozy Mafia

1 Mafia Bully (forces someone to hide during the night, [cannot use ability on self?])
6 Vanilla Townies

Each day three things are voted upon:
- who receives an (publicly-announced) ability
- who to lynch

Each night the Bully can select someone (NB: cannot be the person who received an ability on the day prior) to kill.

Good idea or no? Need to discuss what abilities are up for offer.

--

Thinking of making it such that instead of voting upon who receives an ability, we vote upon who gives it to someone (including themselves). And therefore the Bully can kill the person who was elected for that purpose.

So the game would go: Day --> Afternoon (person A is lynched, person B is elected and chooses to give the ability to person C) --> Night (Bully kills someone and forces someone to hide, person C uses the ability)

[Shadow Dancer]

@Junpei: What if you focussed more on the whole even-oddness issue, Adding an odd-even killing mafia team, odd/even night PRs and an invstigative role that can detect odd/eveness of a player...
What about making the jesters a team/lover pair? There is a fundamental problem with having too many independent game ending wincons in a game which is that no matter what alignment a player gets his chances of winning are vastly diminished, doesn't really help one's motivation to feel screwed from the get-go.

@Quilford: How exactly would the hide work? To make this an open setup you'd have to specify which roles are in the game to be distributed to the players.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Each day three things are voted upon:
- who receives an (publicly-announced) ability
- who to lynch

:/

[Junpei]

@Junpei: What if you focussed more on the whole even-oddness issue, Adding an odd-even killing mafia team, odd/even night PRs and an invstigative role that can detect odd/eveness of a player...
What about making the jesters a team/lover pair? There is a fundamental problem with having too many independent game ending wincons in a game which is that no matter what alignment a player gets his chances of winning are vastly diminished, doesn't really help one's motivation to feel screwed from the get-go.

I don't know how I feel about a jester lover/team pair. I feel like independence is what the role Jester is all about. I will consider your odd/even theme-ing as a possible solution though.

[Quilford]

@Quilford: How exactly would the hide work? To make this an open setup you'd have to specify which roles are in the game to be distributed to the players.

If the Bully uses the hide on Player A, all night actions used on player A would fail.

'Roles' is a bit of a misnomer. They're really just one-shot abilities. I suggest doc, tracker, jailkeeper, redirector (redirects actions performed on Player A to Player B), and mass roleblocker (stops all actions made on that night).

[Quilford]

Also also.

If the town doesn't lynch they don't get their ability and the mafia gets two kills; if the mafia doesn't kill they can't make someone hide and the town gets two lynches.

[Empking]

1:6 is very (well, slightly) town favoured. Your set up only adds to that.

[Quilford]

And how would you recommend fixing it?

[drmyshottyizsik]

1x 2 Shot Mafia Doctor
1x Mafia Goon
1x Mafia Janitor

1x Beloved Princess
1x Vig
1x Watcher
1x BP Townie
8x VT