In post 3027, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:honestly I think the only value my role can play now is that if you guys accept me as town - scum will have to use a NK on me as I will draw vs scum in a 1v1 endgame but that would require you guys to actually believe me.
This actually points to bomb tbh
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:01 pm
by skitter30
In post 3034, the worst wrote:... at a bare (bear) minimum I think there's enough merit in this that I don't want to eliminate Pooky right now
pedit: yeah I also strongly doubt that scum let town!you live with a x% chance you're a full blown vig.
Wut
This is a weird post/reaction to that whole convo
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:03 pm
by PookyTheMagicalBear
This is probably the shittiest case I've ever posted on anyone in lylo but SS doesn't really post much so there's not that much to attack - the focal point is in the reaction to Micc's response to SS's question and his general gameplay and playstyle that I find susp for being above the fray kind of. I have not examined or re-read SS games yet so if this is something he often does regardless of alignment then it would be difficult to place his alignment based on his style alone.
SS feels like he doesn't really care about the game because if you read through his ISO he basically is kind of floating above it all - he doesn't even put down a single vote - however he seems to be very aware of the game state - for example he seemed pretty sure that I was telling the truth about being a bomb quite early and I'm not sure a town-aligned player makes that jump so quickly. (Raven also makes the conclusion that I might be protown and lying but I feel much better about her belief in me than SS's belief in me - like when I read raven's posts I feel comfortable and like I kind of trust her - when I read SS's posts I feel there's something sinister there)
I got the feeling when Micc answered in thread and said I was lying about being a vig that SS couldn't believe how lucky he was:
I mean, if Pooky actually is scum then it doesn't matter.
This post doesn't make a lot of sense to me coming from SS - shouldn't be so uncertain at that point in time of my scuminess - mod had already confirmed I was lying - don't know why he puts that qualifier there.
I've re-read the post Micc-saying that I'm lying about a vig section a few times now and SS's play feels the most unnatural to me of all the players - I would've thought it would be more believable as a town-reaction if he had voted me or not believed me but the way he posted makes me think he knew I was a town power role to begin with except I was lying about my role for whatever reason.
In post 3813, Raven Branwen wrote:Exactly. @SS aren’t you supposed to be some mech genius or something?
I am. There's a big difference between killing someone tomorrow and killing them today. You may note that skitter is still alive and confirmed and can lead us in lylo. If not for the BG, they could (and would) have just killed her.
The mark is a strongman with a drawback. No point in having a strongman if there's nothing for it to bypass.
This post seems like an oversight for a "mech" genius - there is something for the mark to bypass - the bomb for example. Also the motivation for marking skitter rather than outright killing her is very simple - if they outright kill her then TW would be on the hook for not protecting her.
In post 3910, Datisi wrote:also duck do you have like thoughts or something
SS is townier than raven atm
I don't really think Pooky is town like at all rn
I'd rather do a reread and like at a minimum try to double check scum!you or a raven/ss world
But also I'm kinda under the weather so I'm boycotting Thinking and Brain Things this weekend
What have you been eating in your birdseed? I was here at D2 EoD, SS wasn’t. I have been very clearly trying to figure out this game. And why aren’t you even considering the possibility that SS could possibly be pocketing you? I’m starting to doubt duckling again. :/
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:33 pm
by Raven Branwen
In post 3918, Datisi wrote:i mean....... unless you're trying to convince me this setup is actually 9town and 0mafia and in order to win we must overthrow moderation and execute micc......... you being not!scum would mean someone else is................
I could go for that but I’m pretty damn sure a Micc execution would lose us this game - if it even got counted. lmaooo
.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.
Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.
If that Mafia Goon targeted that Town Bomb with a Mark For Death, the Town Bomb's ability would not be triggered, so the Mafia Goon would not be killed.
Thanks. Wow, this game just keeps getting worse and worse. Maybe a Micc execution isn’t such a terrible idea after all. :/
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:51 pm
by Raven Branwen
Spoiler:
In post 3953, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:This is probably the shittiest case I've ever posted on anyone in lylo but SS doesn't really post much so there's not that much to attack - the focal point is in the reaction to Micc's response to SS's question and his general gameplay and playstyle that I find susp for being above the fray kind of. I have not examined or re-read SS games yet so if this is something he often does regardless of alignment then it would be difficult to place his alignment based on his style alone.
SS feels like he doesn't really care about the game because if you read through his ISO he basically is kind of floating above it all - he doesn't even put down a single vote - however he seems to be very aware of the game state - for example he seemed pretty sure that I was telling the truth about being a bomb quite early and I'm not sure a town-aligned player makes that jump so quickly. (Raven also makes the conclusion that I might be protown and lying but I feel much better about her belief in me than SS's belief in me - like when I read raven's posts I feel comfortable and like I kind of trust her - when I read SS's posts I feel there's something sinister there)
I got the feeling when Micc answered in thread and said I was lying about being a vig that SS couldn't believe how lucky he was:
I mean, if Pooky actually is scum then it doesn't matter.
This is a really good point, I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore, do it’s between SS/duckling now.
This post doesn't make a lot of sense to me coming from SS - shouldn't be so uncertain at that point in time of my scuminess - mod had already confirmed I was lying - don't know why he puts that qualifier there.
I've re-read the post Micc-saying that I'm lying about a vig section a few times now and SS's play feels the most unnatural to me of all the players - I would've thought it would be more believable as a town-reaction if he had voted me or not believed me but the way he posted makes me think he knew I was a town power role to begin with except I was lying about my role for whatever reason.
In post 3813, Raven Branwen wrote:Exactly. @SS aren’t you supposed to be some mech genius or something?
I am. There's a big difference between killing someone tomorrow and killing them today. You may note that skitter is still alive and confirmed and can lead us in lylo. If not for the BG, they could (and would) have just killed her.
The mark is a strongman with a drawback. No point in having a strongman if there's nothing for it to bypass.
This post seems like an oversight for a "mech" genius - there is something for the mark to bypass - the bomb for example. Also the motivation for marking skitter rather than outright killing her is very simple - if they outright kill her then TW would be on the hook for not protecting her.
This is a really good point. I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore. So it’s between SS/duckling.
I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...
Agree, I actually did think Koba had softed something, so I didn’t find that strange but would duckling actually claim to bg a buddy? I suppose with this crazy game, anything’s possible.
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:06 pm
by the worst
The case in the post above this literally only makes sense if you've already decided SS is scum
Neon Mafia by Datisi iirc, don't have the number. I can find it later
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:09 pm
by the worst
Can you two stop talking around it and actually case me if you think I'm scum? I think I made it abundantly obvious I'm not going to take a mis-elim lying down, so stop pussyfooting.
In post 3846, the worst wrote:all I'm saying is I kind of expect scum to come at me today or try and keep options open
see i'm really confused by this pov ...
a) pooky has just done that and that doesn't seem to be making you push him
b) who exactly are these scum that are trying to do this?
a) yes I think Pooky is transparently playing to an agenda this phase. Im under the weather and don't really have the energy levels to cohesively push back at someone who is clearly setting me up. I'll try this harder when I'm less not human.
b) I mean it was a sinking gut feeling more than a gamestate read at the time but if the shoe fits ?
SS' opening to this phase felt more open minded / in line with town!SS
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:14 pm
by the worst
In post 3937, skitter30 wrote:tw, explain why pooky is scum and why ss is townier than raven
Pooky is driving the fuck out of an agenda which I think Raven is pussyfooting around and I feel like SS has just had a considered approach to this phase that's more in line with what I'd be expecting to see coming from town here
I probably owe a reread but that's front of mind
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:20 pm
by Raven Branwen
In post 3961, the worst wrote:The case in the post above this literally only makes sense if you've already decided SS is scum
I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...
also this is exactly what I'm saying there
I’m town, Dats is very likely to be town. Mechwise if you’re scum than this game seems very scumsided but rn, Pooky is looking townier than you but yeah it think it very possible that SS is either your buddy or possibly has a tmi if I’m wrong on on you, so why aren’t you even considering that as a possibility? It sounds like you’ve decided SS is town despite his confirming your role based on mfd mech which really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, so why aren’t you even questioning that?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:20 pm
by the worst
In post 3943, skitter30 wrote:Is it bad that my main reason for thinking tw might be town is that he wouldnt conftown me in lylo?
I think you know that going up against you when:
1) I'm scum and you're town,
2) I'm town and you're not literally confirmed,
are personal nightmares
am I enough of a masochist to do it? probably, in theory
in practice like, would I put this much effort into hoping I can successfully pocket you (when I have not succeeded since December 2018), setting up the bg claim (which you'd need to assume I decided to fakeclaim on day one) and intentionally created a gamestate where conftown skitter is trying to hunt myself and my scumbuddy in a gamestate where town!Datisi is still alive?
I think you're well positioned to read me correctly in this game but I'm also acutely aware that if I'm scum I now basically have to just pocket you and hope for the best so whatever idk
In post 3937, skitter30 wrote:tw, explain why pooky is scum and why ss is townier than raven
Pooky is driving the fuck out of an agenda which I think Raven is pussyfooting around and I feel like SS has just had a considered approach to this phase that's more in line with what I'd be expecting to see coming from town here
I probably owe a reread but that's front of mind
Speaking of pussyfooting why aren’t you even questioning why the self-provlaimed mech genius thinks that the mfd mechanic confirms your role, because it doesn’t?
I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...
also this is exactly what I'm saying there
I’m town, Dats is very likely to be town. Mechwise if you’re scum than this game seems very scumsided but rn, Pooky is looking townier than you but yeah it think it very possible that SS is either your buddy or possibly has a tmi if I’m wrong on on you, so why aren’t you even considering that as a possibility? It sounds like you’ve decided SS is town despite his confirming your role based on mfd mech which really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, so why aren’t you even questioning that?
that's not what I'm doing.. pooky's case on SS only makes sense if he's already decided that SS is scum. I'll accept that maybe that makes sense in a town!Pooky world as well but even that feels like an applied read? Like I think it's really obvious Pooky is driving an agenda
pedit: well like if there isn't a town protective in the setup why would the MFD kill be here? it probably confirms 1+ town in {tw,Pooky} in a more literal sense but like I don't see why I would bat an eyelid at that because it's correct?
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:28 pm
by the worst
Why would you even like, expect me to question that...
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:40 pm
by Raven Branwen
I don’t claim to be any kind of mech genius but based off my current PoE, this game looks extremely scumsided, which is why it really sucks so much for us that dsjstr flipped town but I trust my PoE read > my mech analysis and unless you’re dealing with a known setup, that’s usually the best way to proceed. I once hydra’d with Math who kept insisted that super obvtownie Kokichi’s role had to make them scum and in another game, Sakura and me both thought Math’s roleclaim confiscummed them. They and me were both wrong.
So I trust my Dats tr > my mech analysis but Pooky’s recent arguments really do make a lot of sense and I think we lose if we execute him today. I’m torn between tr duckling’s blowback to questioning how he doesn’t see how my thought process is so obviously coming from a townie place. Does anyone have any meta as whether scum!duckling responds to being sr like this?
