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Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:24 pm
by Surye
Baby Spice wrote:
Parama wrote:though you seem content to push suspicion on Surye solely because of his restriction. FYI town and scum can both be post-restricted and something like that has no bearing on a player's alignment.


Granted. As I said I wasn't going to worry about it today, but I think he's been scummy in his actions, and scummy and evasive in his dealings with this one issue.
It would have been simplicity itself to say his role was from the french speaking game, if it was. Right back when Smartgaret first mentioned the SWN games on D1 (I think it was). Especially as that would have given little away about his actual role.
But that looks like tommorow's arguement now.

TS is still scummier by far.


J'ai été évasif. J'essayais de voir à quel point vous étiez de pêche rôle pour ce qui semblait être sans raison valable. Et votre insistance a été très intéressant. Vous avez agi comme une demande a été envers vous, pour une raison tout simplement parce que vous avez demandé. Ensuite, après m'avoir demandé de citer mon rôle PM (à droite oui ...) et je l'ai fait remarquer, tu as super défensive et OMGUSy et a commencé à dire des bêtises sur les guillemets postes qui n'avaient rien à voir avec quoi que ce soit.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:27 pm
by StrangerCoug
VOTE COUNT

animorpherv1 (4): Parama, xvart, smargaret, Amrun
Baby Spice (1): Twistedspoon
smargaret (4): populartajo, Surye, Empking, TheLonging
Twistedspoon (1): Baby Spice
Not voting (3): animorpherv1, Zinger2099, bobsnox

With
13
players alive, it takes
7
votes to lynch.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:44 pm
by bobsnox
woah Parama good catch.
Amrun wrote:Tajo: after a napalm kill?!
Exactly. I don't see how that would even be a VI comment. That almost has to come from scum.

VOTE: animorpherv1

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:12 pm
by animorpherv1
ffs that was seriously the ONE time I missed the flavour for the kills.

Also, I will lol in my grave when the SK gets gauranteed kills.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:18 pm
by Zinger2099
I have to say guys I am having trouble keeping up with this game. I am going to try to get up to speed one more time and see if I can recover, and if that doesn't work I will ask the mod to replace me.

Sorry, I joined too many games at once. >_<

@bobsnox, I think I would not be an acceptable lynch, but I'm biased.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:31 pm
by bobsnox
animorpherv1 wrote:ffs that was seriously the ONE time I missed the flavour for the kills.

Also, I will lol in my grave when the SK gets gauranteed kills.

I feel like you're missing the point.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:42 pm
by animorpherv1
I just took a look at who died. I assumed that there was a vig kill, because I didn't look at the flavour.

Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:44 pm
by smargaret
I would be very surprised if all the scum were off the wagon, but that doesn't mean that they were all on it. I'd say we can find 1, maybe two scum on the wagon other than jindori.

TwistedSpoon wrote:scum lynch obv

anyways are votes a scumvote until proven a bus or a bus until proven a scumvote?

sure, I'd look scummy if it was a bus, but it wasn't and you can't prove it unless you say I'm scum which you say because I might have bussed because I might be scum because I might have bussed

etc.

circular logic you have there


I really don't understand what you're trying to say here, TS. You're saying things without actually saying anything.

TwistedSpoon wrote:
I'm not

I'm just saying that they weren't on the wagon and they had a reason for that

although I think scum would have been alerted that the day had started because the mod would have posted in the QT that D1 had started


And you don't think it's possible scum could have been v/la or otherwise away from the game for a day? You don't think scum could have deliberately lurked? This is very shortsighted.

populartajo wrote:
lets lynch smargaret plz.


Why are you tunneling me?

populartajo wrote:his questions and cases feel designed and fake; seriously go iso him:

smargaret wrote:Parama, why are you so convinced that jindori is a jester, not scum? He looks pretty scummy to me.
Surye, what translator are you using?

as I said, in this context of jindoriscum, this attack reeks of someone that knew jindori was scum.
and the translator question feels like smargaret asking unnecesary questions to appear helpful, common scum maneuver.


In the case of the translator question, I'm not good enough at French to be able to translate quickly from the sort of error-ridden stuff returned by computerized translators. If you run it back through a translator and you use the same one, you get more accurate results than you do if you use a different one. It's a null question - it's something I would ask regardless of alignment because it makes it easier for me to read Surye's posts. You're reaching.

How exactly does it look like I knew jindori was scum? There's a saying - "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras" - if someone's being scummy, they're more likely to be scum than a jester. I think that was a perfectly reasonable question.


smargaret wrote: Add to that the fact that Amrun was absent for all of day 1 - forgetting a game can happen, but when you're gone for a whole day it's suspicious,

lolno, this is not suspicious; its scum trying to support his case with nulltells.

the sheeping accusation against you is weak since you had your own reasons to suspect ani


1. I'll grant that it's not a strong tell, but it IS a tell - and it wasn't my only point.
2. lolwat? Amrun's reasons were EXACTLY the same as Parama's.

and his ani progression goes from:

smargartet iso 2 wrote:Second, while the Ani wagon makes sense - avoiding the jindori wagon and pushing Tragedy was scummy - his claim makes sense, and I'm not willing to lynch him for it.

smargartet iso 4 wrote:I really want to vote Ani, but with the number of people who haven't really posted yet, and the speed of the wagon yesterday (and lack of associative tells to work from today) I'm uncomfortable putting him at L-1 right now. I think he's probably going to be the lynch today, just not yet

smargartet iso 5 wrote:Very interesting, especially the bolded. Ani seems unusually preoccupied with his own survival.
Vote: Ani

bonus: preoccupied with his own survival is NOT scummy.

Plz lynch this scumbag.


His claim made sense, and then it didn't. I didn't want him at L-1 before everyone had posted because of the way the speed from day 1 is hampering us - I want a longer day today. When he kept acting scummy and people had unvoted, I put my vote back on to keep the pressure up.

WTF do you mean that being preoccupied with your own survival isn't a scumtell? Town doesn't need to worry about staying alive, scum does. It's right up there with looking for scumhunting in terms of usable scumtells.

Also, I am a woman. I've said this before. In fact, if you look at my username, sMARGARET, hey, it has a female name in it. Please stop referring to me as he.

populartajo wrote:scratch that, I confused it with BS

But TS feels very VIish, specially with the lynch me if Im wrong stuff

we need momentum on smargaret, now


VI != confirmed town. Just sayin'.

About my activity level, this is consistent across my games (you can go look for the posts). I got stuck with a computer virus I can't fix, my fiance (who can fix it) is writing his generals exams and needs the one remaining computer to do so, and the other computer won't get fixed until he turns in his papers this weekend. It's not calculated inactivity if there's a legit problem.

Ani, do you mean that the possibility of an SK, when you have a role designed to counter an SK, never crossed your mind? Wow.

Actually, PT, have you said anything about the Ani case yet? Please take a stance on that; I don't like how you're ignoring the other major wagon today and it feels like you're trying to set up a counterwagon on me.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:03 am
by Parama
hiraki's
sig

that is all

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:18 am
by bobsnox
smargaret wrote:WTF do you mean that being preoccupied with your own survival isn't a scumtell? Town doesn't need to worry about staying alive, scum does. It's right up there with looking for scumhunting in terms of usable scumtells.
Good point. Townies shouldn't be worried so much about staying alive as outing scum and Ani is NOT concerned with scumhunting whatsoever.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:53 am
by Empking
Okay, I've reached my conclusion which is that Ani is mafia and they probably weren't given fake claims (perhaps fake games?) (Unless the napalm was a mafia rather than Serial Killer kill flavour?

Unvote

Vote: Ani


I do think that based on the speed of the Smarge wagon if Ani is Mafia than Smarge probably isn't.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:46 am
by animorpherv1
--Not selfvoting--

Also, when I die as firefighter, I'll be looling in my grave. Town will then lose to a SK-Mafia win.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:47 am
by animorpherv1
Oh btw, lynch Parama tomorrow.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:52 am
by Parama
animorpherv1 wrote:Also, if Parama is scum (which,despite him voting for me, I think he is town)

animorpherv1 wrote:Also, @Parama:
You can stop tunneling on me anytime now.

animorpherv1 wrote:Oh btw, lynch Parama tomorrow.


Ani that was the worst distance ever, now they'll totally lynch me on your scumflip! I knew I shouldn't have bussed incompetent buddies two days in a row <_<

I love how the second I point out your scumslip is the second I get on your scumlist. Man that is really a lame distance Ani.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:53 am
by Parama
^this is not in violation of rule 11 btw because the comments have invisible sarcasm tags around them

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:26 am
by xvart
bobsnox wrote:
Amrun wrote:Uh, why would the French thing make Surye more likely to be town?

It puts mafia at a great disadvantage to not be able to communicate effectively (persuasively). Just seems like too inhibiting of a role for scum.

Yeah, we need to stay away from this line of thinking. I beat this horse until there was nothing left in one of the SWN games and I was wrong for all the logically consistent arguments I put forth. It does no good.

Baby Spice wrote:
bobsnox wrote:I also doubt Surye is scum with this French thing going on.


That's a very interesting observation after I've mentioned that the only French post restricted role I can find associated with SC is a scum one.

SC said something when commenting on posting role pm's directly from other games that we weren't allowed to make any changes, if there were any, to the original role pm, so I'm guessing that it is likely that changes to alignment are a possibility.

I went through every theme game, large and mini, in SC's wiki searching each thread for "napalm" and yielded no results. (side note: does the "search this thread" box differentiate between "napalm" and "napalmed"?). The flavor reeks of SK, and it could just be an instance of SC modifying the role/flavor to fit the game.

animorpherv1 wrote:That would be a stupid move. Why the hell would I claim firefighter and essentially out myself when I could claim doctor instead?

Because scum are not interested in killing a Fire Fighter since it only protects against the flavored SK; so you wouldn't be a NK target to them. If you are telling the truth about your role you are only a threat to the SK. It's actually a pretty good fake claim until you get to the point where the WIFOM of why the arsonist hasn't killed you yet starts to weigh down. Animorph - can you self protect? Hmmm... I just thought of something and need to do a little more thinking about this claim/setup. In the meantime...

UNVOTE:

Twistedspoon wrote:If i was scum, tunneling on BS would be extremely risky and unfeasable

Why would that be risky?

Empking wrote:
Unvote
- I'm not in love with a BS wagon anymore.

TS seems activbely worst with some really awful thinking w.r.t wagon analysis. OTOH, Smarge seems to taske the field of calculated inaction to a whole new level. If I can get past the part of me that thinks Tajo is scum then Smarge is objectively scummier.

Unvote

Vote: Smarge
Empking wrote:
populartajo wrote:wait when did you say I was scum?


I didn't. Its just been at the back of my mind all day.
Empking wrote:If I knew I'd probably be voting you. I
think
its because nobody is attacking you and your defending players.

I haven't liked any reasoning your have provided for any of your suspicions all game. What happened to Amrun? Did you have no comment on my post responding to your questions on why your "the behavior is something I expect from scum" "is something
I
expect from scum"?

I also think the Korean smiley face discussion is ridiculous.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:34 am
by Empking
Did you have no comment on my post responding to your questions on why your "the behavior is something I expect from scum" "is something I expect from scum"?


No.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:42 am
by Twistedspoon
xvart wrote:
Twistedspoon wrote:If i was scum, tunneling on BS would be extremely risky and unfeasable

Why would that be risky?

scum pick on the easiest targets or lurkers. They have a high chance of being lynched and hardly fight back

BS is not the easiest target, nor is she a lurker

However I follow my gut whether a player is an easy target or not, and her Jindori defence looked too pro-Jin to be town for me.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:58 am
by Amrun
Twistedspoon wrote:
xvart wrote:
Twistedspoon wrote:If i was scum, tunneling on BS would be extremely risky and unfeasable

Why would that be risky?

scum pick on the easiest targets or lurkers. They have a high chance of being lynched and hardly fight back

BS is not the easiest target, nor is she a lurker

However I follow my gut whether a player is an easy target or not, and her Jindori defence looked too pro-Jin to be town for me.



But she is the only non-claimed player off the wagon... making her an easy target.

"Scum wouldn't do this" is a bullshit WIFOM defense.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:14 am
by Twistedspoon
if she's such an easy target she'd be lynched by now...

and you can't just dismiss everything over WIFOM. Some players think WIFOM is the holy grail of mafia. It isn't. This is no newbie game. Most statements have WIFOM in as the metagame constantly changes. You have to come to a balanced judgement over everything in mafia, not just dismiss it because it sounds like WIFOM

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:47 am
by Amrun
Just because someone is an easy target to go after doesn't mean it is easy to get them lynched in actuality.

And I don't dismiss all WIFOM. I use more WIFOM than most players, even.

But "I wouldn't do that as scum" is one argument I never accept.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:02 pm
by animorpherv1
@xvart: It doesn't say. I'll ask, but I'm assuming no.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:06 pm
by populartajo
smargaret wrote:
populartajo wrote:
lets lynch smargaret plz.

Why are you tunneling me?

why are you assuming I am tunneling on you and not a scum trying to mislynch you?

His claim made sense, and then it didn't. I didn't want him at L-1 before everyone had posted because of the way the speed from day 1 is hampering us - I want a longer day today. When he kept acting scummy and people had unvoted, I put my vote back on to keep the pressure up.

you are not being consistent with the things you said. You said HIS CLAIM MADE SENSE and YOU WERENT WILLING TO LYNCH HIM FOR IT. Guess what, his claim is still the same.

smargaret wrote:WTF do you mean that being preoccupied with your own survival isn't a scumtell? Town doesn't need to worry about staying alive, scum does.

so why are you defending yourself?

About my activity level,

who asked about your activity level?

smargaret wrote:Actually, PT, have you said anything about the Ani case yet? Please take a stance on that; I don't like how you're ignoring the other major wagon today and it feels like you're trying to set up a counterwagon on me.

are you paying attention? go iso me and find what Ive said about ani.

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:40 pm
by animorpherv1
@xvart:

No, I may not.

FoS: smargret
I'm convinced that post, specfically that last point, was to try to make poptajo look bad for no reason.

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:01 pm
by bobsnox
Is ani still alive?